So you think your team misses shots? HA! Amateurs!! look this

[figosv]

Theres obviously something wrong with my tactic, maybe forward isolated?? lack of movement from players?? Or is it just maybe I have 11 stormtroopers taking the shots in my team.

What Im looking for is a solid tactic for away games, the tactic I am currently trying is this:

And I am trying to keep it simple about Team Instructions:

I was playing an away game against Stoke... the game ended 0-0 and this are the match statistics

26 shots..... 1 on target!!!!! What is wrong with my tactic? How do I correct this???

This are the shots my team made:

I know most of my shots are from outside the box so it must be... somehow my players find themselves isolated and have no other option but to shoot... but what is specifically wrong in the tactic that is causing this isolation?? I have player orders ingame to the WM to get further forward, play narrower to try to get them close to the F9 but nothing changed

Another image of the shots

The heatmap of my team:

And if this helps you in some analysis, the crosses my team made:

I love to solve the problem, but much as this I would really appreciate to walk me through about whats wrong in the tactic...

Thank you very much in advanced!

Cheers!

CL

[bababooey]

In order to create that true "counter attack" style you need to draw the opponent further into your third, and allow them to come at you. Then, you'll have the space to counter into.

Right now your team looks like it's camping right at the halfway line. That's not going to be deep enough to really generate those nasty counter attacks that should result in the CCC's you need for scoring goals.

[vasilli07]

I counted your shots, only 7 in the the pk box and at least double of it outside. I will try using 1 attack duty on the flank to try to get him in the box.

[figosv]

Thanks for the response bababooey, so to take your comments in consideration I will do the following:

Team instructions: Defensive line: Slightly deeper

Team mentality: Counter

Do you think this will be enough?

Thanks!

[figosv]

thanks for your response vasilli07, I did slight changes during the game to my Wide Midfielders, this changer where:

When team has the ball... - Get further forward

- sit narrower

-Cut inside with the ball

This changer where made at half time, but nothing changed.

This leads me to another question:

A wide midfielder with support duty looks like this in game:

A wide midfielder with attack duty looks like these in game:

If i choose to play with a WM/Support duty and instruct him to get more risky passes and get further forward..... will this player play exactly as if he has a WM/Attack duty?? Or will there be any difference in behaviour?

Thanks!!

[OllyAI]

You have alot of support roles... That's the first thing i notice, then the amounts of shots outside of the box.. you need more attacking roles to break the front line and have players to receive through balls etc.

[figosv]

You have alot of support roles... That's the first thing i notice, then the amounts of shots outside of the box.. you need more attacking roles to break the front line and have players to receive through balls etc.

Thanks OllyAI

The reason behind all of them having support duties is I read Cleon's "The art of counter attacking":

"I don’t believe it matters as much if you are going for a different style or approach but for counter and defensive systems then attack duties should be limited. On a counter system I find it best to never go beyond two attack duties, any more and I feel you lose the balance of the side. Remember that the mentality structure you use sets the team’s baseline as a whole. I think this is where some people (and rightly so) get confused because they then think an attacking duty isn’t aggressive in their approach. That would be a wrong assumption, it’s still an aggressive role it’s just less aggressive than in an attacking mentality structure and so on. As the attack duty will further alter the default base line and make them positioned more advanced because it alters the individual mentality structure of the player and other settings."

Im about to use the same tactic but droping my defense deeper and chaging the mentality to Counter... besides I am instructing my WM to go further forward. Ill post what happens.

Thanks!

[figosv]

In order to create that true "counter attack" style you need to draw the opponent further into your third, and allow them to come at you. Then, you'll have the space to counter into.

Right now your team looks like it's camping right at the halfway line. That's not going to be deep enough to really generate those nasty counter attacks that should result in the CCC's you need for scoring goals.

Just finished the game with minor changes made to the tactic, following what you suggest me:

As you can see I only set the defensive line to slightly deeper, and changed the team mentality to Counter. Expecting that with this my team will drop deeper leaving the needed space to counterattack

The match statistics are:

I lost the game 3-2, nevermind the result but lets focus on statistics: I believe the tactic stills need something changed... yeah I have more on target shots but the ratio with the total shots made is around 33%; I read that a well balanced tactic never has to have less than 50% in this ratio

The shots I made are:

And my positional heatmap is:

One more thing, I instructed my WM to "go further forward" and to "cut inside with the ball"

When I see the match, my ST seems to have real problemas connecting with the WM... should I change the F9 role to another one ?? Which role is better suit to encourage connections with my WM?

[Baldyloxxx]

I had same issue. Literally tons of crap shots, so I changed to the following and it worked perfectly.... At home. Still tweaking away tactic.

I've gone very fluid, normal tempo, close down sometimes, fairly wide, normal def line, more expressive, work ball into box, roam from position, all with a standard style.

Also set every player on the pitch to shoot less, even strikers.

it sure how that would work with your formation and player roles, maybe see one of your wide men to wm Att

Back to smashing it now, and games are a lot better to watch.

[treble_yell_:-)]

Your F9 drops deep to get the ball but you have no midfield runners moving into the space he is leaving. I found the DF/s to work really well when I tried a tactic around Cleons counter thread.

[Bigpapa42]

The fundamental question is what type of tactic you are trying to build? Based on the use of support roles, the shape, etc, it looks like a counter-attacking one. But using Standard mentality and a couple of the roles (F9, RPM) are more about possession. But it doesn't look like it quite all connects. The F9 is about linking play, but who does he link with? The shape you selected is great in regard to being hard to break down, but the roles and the Roaming from Position take away from it.

If you fully want to counter attack, I would lose the Roaming, switch up the CM roles, and go with a different role for the forward. If you want to prioritize possession, you don't necessarily have to change the formation, but at least be less conservative with the roles so that you can get some penetration.

[Lord Rowell]

Your basic problem is your roles. No-one is effectively getting forward for you.

I would change one of your WMs to an attack role, also change the RPM to an AM-role, so that they can get forward and play off / support the F9.

If you want to keep possession, keep the "Roam from Positions" it really helps. Also, again if you want to keep possession, lower passing length and tempo.

One more thing, it is a personal preference of mine but if playing with a 4-1-4-1 like you are, I'd play a bit wider - I just find it means your players can spread the play a bit more / have more options. Might even be having one Winger (perhaps on support) to give you a bit more width and an outlet when you're under pressure.

[Overmars]

The fundamental question is what type of tactic you are trying to build? Based on the use of support roles, the shape, etc, it looks like a counter-attacking one. But using Standard mentality and a couple of the roles (F9, RPM) are more about possession. But it doesn't look like it quite all connects. The F9 is about linking play, but who does he link with? The shape you selected is great in regard to being hard to break down, but the roles and the Roaming from Position take away from it.

If you fully want to counter attack, I would lose the Roaming, switch up the CM roles, and go with a different role for the forward. If you want to prioritize possession, you don't necessarily have to change the formation, but at least be less conservative with the roles so that you can get some penetration.

I agree with this. I would also add that if you are intent on playing counter and conservative then you should accept a 0-0 draw as a good result. If you absolutely must win the match then you should probably be playing with more attack roles.

[Shakes]

Concentrating on shots on target in a single match can get you confused by variance - sometimes players put good shots off target and vice versa. Take a look at the tactic analysis screen of where goals are scored through a season and you'll see the vast majority come from the two areas either right in front of goal or straight on inside the box. So to my eyes I'm not even sure the second shot map is an improvement, there's basically nothing from close front on at all in it.

As others have mentioned the false nine really is going to ping shots from distance in this system, he doesn't have hold up ball as an instruction so when he receives the ball before support arrives - which will be quite often - he's going to dribble it up and have a go.

As for the midfield - two support playmakers with nobody to really run past the support striker. So who is going to be pushing forward centrally to get into the good areas for scoring goals? I find your WMs a bit wishy washy too, support with no specific instructions leaves them neither cutting inside into the dangerous area, or getting wide to deliver crosses into the dangerous area (although again, you have nobody to get on the end of crosses anyway).

This looks like a setup designed to stop on the edge of the box and take shots from there, and that's what you're seeing. That's not necessarily a bad thing: if your aim is for a solid away tactic as you started with in your first post, sometimes shooting the ball rather than risking losing it with players forward it is the right strategy. But if you want to score more you need to get someone into a position to do so.

[Jyuan83]

Hi figosv, I like the look of your formation but some roles might get in each other's way like your right WM getting in the way of the RPM. Sometimes you need not apply everything wholesale from Cleon's thread into your tactics to derive the same effect. The whole purpose of the art of possession is to give you ideas on crafting your own unique playing style. With everyone on support and no one to attck the box, you end up shooting from afar. Take some time to observe how the roles work in your game to truly understand their movement besides the wordy lines in their descriptions. Take for example the F9 which has a tendency to drop very deep and then run a lot with the ball and taking pot shots from distance. Now this is not to say the F9 role is bad, just that with no one up front to benefit, he would just resort to taking things into his own hands. Turn one of your WM into a goalscoring threat. Now i know lots of people prefer the shiny, special raumdeuter or IF in the AM position but if you look at full match mode highlights of a WM (attack) in action, you would realise that he is pretty aggressive in attacking the box. For me, i just give the PIs to cross less often and sit narrower or sometimes just cross less often alone as the only PI. or alternatively, you could place an odd-footed player there in the winger(attack) role with roaming on, works out like a raumdeuter to me. Then the other WM i would make him either a winger on support duty or give him winger PIs to provide ammunition from his flank. I would perhaps change the RPM to CM(a) to attack the box as a pseudo-striker. I would also give one of your FBs an attack duty as well to provide some layering to the attack, maybe try the one behind the WM on support duty. All in all, i think with try early crosses in your TI, i think you should see more attacking ethos from your team. Hope this helps!

[ac13]

I had same issue. Literally tons of crap shots, so I changed to the following and it worked perfectly.... At home. Still tweaking away tactic.

I've gone very fluid, normal tempo, close down sometimes, fairly wide, normal def line, more expressive, work ball into box, roam from position, all with a standard style.

Also set every player on the pitch to shoot less, even strikers.

it sure how that would work with your formation and player roles, maybe see one of your wide men to wm Att

Back to smashing it now, and games are a lot better to watch.

It's a pity that every version of FM manager seems to be teaching to never try shots from outside the box. IRL only Arsenal of a few years ago wouldn't be delighted to have 15+ shots from outside the box and 6 or 7 from inside. Every year it seems that "shoot less" and "work the ball into box" are the go to instructions for every team and every player, even ones with 20 for long shots.

Whenever I look at the goals from outside the box, my team has around 7% scored from that range and opponents 5%. In the Premier league in real life it's about 13%. Shooting accuracy seems to be too poor, shot power slightly too weak, attackers are too slow in finding space for themselves and defenders are too good at making blocks.