Player condition- how low is acceptable to play?

[Bunkerossian]

I think I may have a large squad on my current save, but I find that rotation is inevitable. I fear playing players who start at 89% condition would get me into trouble. From experience, how low could the condition be, for a player to be started (and not play badly)?

[Cougar2010]

Its not a case of the player playing "badly"

Condition is more how tired he is so might be slower to react to a situation or make less effort. This happens as a match goes on anyway as, its just that the player is starting lower to begin with.

Also some positions & roles take more out of a player than others.

Overall I don't start players under approx 85% and between say 85%-92% I give it serious thought but thats just my personal pref.

[Guest]

Low condition does affect technical ability, a tired player will be prone to making mistakes such as a heavy touch or a poor shot.

Like Cougar my cut off tends to be 85%.

[Danchinaski]

For me l don't start them below 89 if l can help it, but have found that these players still make great impact subs after about 60 minutes, when their condition is now up to the standard of the other players who started.

[ryan045]

Try to think of real life as much as possible when deciding player condition, in my experience i NEVER start under 90% unless certain circumstances. Top goalscorer, huge game, finals.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

I think it depends what level you are playing at & the depth of your squad. Big squad you can rotate the players freely, but this might not be an option in the low leagues where you have a small squad & a big schedule of games. I used to be very wary of playing anyone under 90% but now I am more flexible. Anyway, once the game is going, it is not uncommon for some positions like wingers condition to fall very low, & they seem to cope alright. There are more chances of injuries if it does go low though.

[Guest]

Try to think of real life as much as possible when deciding player condition, in my experience i NEVER start under 90% unless certain circumstances. Top goalscorer, huge game, finals.

Real life is why I do not have an issue starting players who are less than 100%, irl a lot of professionals play with some sort of niggle or persistent injury.

[rp1966]

Condition doesn't seem to be having much effect in this version. I'm always wary of playing low condition players and tend to avoid letting anyone drop below 60 by the end of 90 minutes, but I've seen the AI start a few games with players whose condition is in the low sixties and they're still running about and influencing the play like they are fully fit in the 90th minute and at condition 45. You would expect them to be slow, error prone and easy to dispossess, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

In the AI case, it seems to be that the club's top players get played at low condition rather than using a backup player - something in the team selection algorithm?

You'd also expect condition to drop faster, the lower it is - that also doesn't seem to be the case.

[ryan045]

Real life is why I do not have an issue starting players who are less than 100%, irl a lot of professionals play with some sort of niggle or persistent injury.

True but I said less than 90% and also important players like top scorers should be the exception. Real life I was referring to the fixture list and how important the game is.

[Draakon]

Isn't condition and exhaustion also connected to injuries? Player with condition around 60% is more likely to pick up a knock. If he starts the game with 90+% condition, he spends only small amount of time on the pitch as really tired. But if he starts with 85%, he's more likely to be in his 60-s already around 70th minute, so you should consider replacing him.

The same goes with match sharpness - players who lack match sharpness tire more quickly and their condition drops too low in 2nd half, so you should plan substitutions according to that.

But, of course, if you're prepared to take your chances with injuries, go ahaed.

[phnompenhandy]

Condition doesn't seem to be having much effect in this version. I'm always wary of playing low condition players and tend to avoid letting anyone drop below 60 by the end of 90 minutes, but I've seen the AI start a few games with players whose condition is in the low sixties and they're still running about and influencing the play like they are fully fit in the 90th minute and at condition 45. You would expect them to be slow, error prone and easy to dispossess, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

In the AI case, it seems to be that the club's top players get played at low condition rather than using a backup player - something in the team selection algorithm?

You'd also expect condition to drop faster, the lower it is - that also doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm finding this. As an experiment, I created a club to start at Level 10 with a small squad of 14-15 year olds. Many have stamina of 2-3 - playing a full 90 minutes their condition drops to c.50% or even lower. They do seem to manage better than they ought to. There's a slight increase in errors but very few injuries considering. 'Tired' players on the bench can come on at half time and play a perfectly decent 45 minutes, or an hour if they start around 89%.

I've even accidentally had players turn out for my U21 team and then the U18s the next day with condition in the red - nobody died!

[Hootieleece]

I generally never start anyone with less the 90% condition and 85% match fitness. I never play more than 3 90% condition players in one match since I know I will be subbing them at halftime. when they hit 70% condition.

[HUNT3R]

With the fitness reports by your assistant manager before a game, I'm surprised this question even came up. I've started players on 78% before with no issues, even before FM16. The key thing is to remember that a player like that will not be able to play 90 mins.

[rp1966]

With the fitness reports by your assistant manager before a game, I'm surprised this question even came up. I've started players on 78% before with no issues, even before FM16. The key thing is to remember that a player like that will not be able to play 90 mins.

Not the first example in FM16, but I've just had a game against Everton - noticed Ross Barkley had a red condition bar in the first half. He came back out for the second, played the whole game ending on condition 39. Rated 7.3, ran 14 miles, 84 passes; 60 complete. Basically ran the Everton midfield for the whole game.

[HUNT3R]

Yeah, but that's extremely risky as his chance of picking up knocks will be high with a condition that low.

[phnompenhandy]

Yeah, but that's extremely risky as his chance of picking up knocks will be high with a condition that low.

As I mentioned above, I'm not finding that to be the case in FM16.

[rp1966]

Yeah, but that's extremely risky as his chance of picking up knocks will be high with a condition that low.

The probability of getting a knock may be higher, but I think the real issue is performance level. Low condition should be having an adverse affect on stamina, pace, strength, concentration etc. The fact that a low condition player can still run 14 miles (joint highest in both teams) and come out with one of the top ratings of any player doesn't seem right. Any human manager would have subbed him at half time, if they played him at all. It was just a normal league match, not a final or other key game where you might take a gamble on an important player.

[Qwqwqw]

If I understand correctly (and from my own experience), condition only affects how likely it is the player will get injured (the lower the condition, the more likely the injury). It doesn't seem to affect the player's performance all that much.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

If I understand correctly (and from my own experience), condition only affects how likely it is the player will get injured (the lower the condition, the more likely the injury). It doesn't seem to affect the player's performance all that much.

Interesting, though I have noticed players with low conditions play equally well. Might be worth risking all but key players if you have good backup, as I don't like keep rotating unless I have to.

[Qwqwqw]

That's what I understand the tooltip says (when you hover over it during a match, or on the squad overview screen). Also, it looks like match sharpness rating has a (small?) impact on the performance and on being injured, while it only mentions injury possibility for overall fitness.

[phnompenhandy]

If I understand correctly (and from my own experience), condition only affects how likely it is the player will get injured (the lower the condition, the more likely the injury). It doesn't seem to affect the player's performance all that much.

right. I think what rp1966 and I are saying is that shouldn't be the case. Low condition players ought to be slower to move, lack concentration and generally be seen to be making more errors than they actually do. It's a bit of an exploit in my opinion. I choose not to pick them to keep the realism, but I know if I have low-condition players they'll do fine. The occasional cup-tie that goes to extra time usually has me left with 7 outfield players under 40% and they don't get injured or make particular errors.

[Qwqwqw]

Oh, I agree, a tired player should play as if he was tired.

[AllRed]

Just found this thread and wanted to add something. I played against Man City in a 2-2 the other day and Aguero was still minorly injured coming off a 2 month muscle layoff. I noticed he was still 1-5 days till full fitness and his condition was 76%! Yet he started the game, scored twice, played the full 90 and got PoM! His condition finished on 40%! I tried "Get stuck in" and hard tackling but still couldn't manage "do him". Absolutely mad how he performed considering his injury and match sharpness.

[BrnwsBucksFanNC]

One thing that is really annoying to me is when you see the opposition with an injury, calf strain, pulled hamstring, some type of leg injury, and they don't sub the guy. Next thing you know he is out sprinting everyone on the field and does a super move to beat the GK. All of this while his status bar is red and he is showing the injury. When you check out his form it says he is down to under 30%. How?

[cseyoum]

91% unless the are essential to the way I play. Like in my current save Thiago Maia is indispensable to my formation and is significantly better that his replacement so even at 85% he plays.

[mrw072]

I find that if a defender is short of condition or match sharpness he has the very real potential of making big mistakes. So I try and limit the number of defenders who are not fully fit from starting games. But I don't think there is the same problem for attackers, probably because any mistakes they make are less noticeable really! But one thing I don't worry about is putting a player who has been injured straight back into the starting 11. Obviously it depends on the nature of the injury in the first place. But when his condition is approaching a reasonable level - i'll throw him straight into the team.

[Neil Brock]

I believe it only starts to affect performance at around 60% and below.

[Colorado]

Could this be a bug which has gone undetected?

[thomit]

Well, not a bug as such, probably, but something that I think could be made more prominent. I would certainly want to see more visible deterioration of player performances if they are tired. I'd like to see more misplaced passes, more sloppy marking, more bad tackles, and generally want tired players look more tired on the pitch, as well as being more prone to getting knocks and injured. I don't think tired players are suffering enough of being tired in the m.e., in short. Btw; I tend to start players only if they have 91% condition or more, and - if I can - I sub them when they fall beneath 70% during a match. Not neccessarily because it's absolutely called for, but because that seems a more realistic way of managing my players, no matter how the m.e. treats it.

[BanOly]

I'm managing Valencia (as Gary Neville, ha!) and due to the financial stature I've offloaded a few players.

My squad is pretty small, and I regularly find myself starting players with around 75-80% condition.

I now have 2 D©s injured and only 2 left able to play. Go me!

[Johnny Bravo]

This should be fixed. I don't understand why SI have tinkered with fitness/condition in the first place as it was fine as it was.

I've seen players finishing the game on early 50's and late 40's for condition and it's not effecting their performances at all. One of them being Aguero who scored 2 goals in the last five minutes of the game.

Players should be getting injured in that kind of condition as well.

[HUNT3R]

This should be fixed.

There doesn't seem to be a bug here and Neil Brock said (just a few posts up) that it affects performances from around 60%. If you can prove differently, please do so.

[Guest]

I've not seen many threads on the subject in the bugs forum, if you have those matches save it is worth making them available to SI for further investigation.

Personally I'm struggling to recall the last time I saw a player with condition that low other than in the final minutes of extra time & only after starting with less than optimal condition.

[Lenzar]

Real life is why I do not have an issue starting players who are less than 100%, irl a lot of professionals play with some sort of niggle or persistent injury.

But in game they're such pussies that a stubbed toe puts them out for a few days and a sprained ankle for a month. :|

[swansongs]

One thing that is really annoying to me is when you see the opposition with an injury, calf strain, pulled hamstring, some type of leg injury, and they don't sub the guy. Next thing you know he is out sprinting everyone on the field and does a super move to beat the GK. All of this while his status bar is red and he is showing the injury. When you check out his form it says he is down to under 30%. How?

Injuries to players are up there with red cards in things I hate to see happen to the opposition. They always play better football afterwards.

[Guest]

You do realise that a sprained ankle is actually tearing or ruptruing of the ankle ligaments? A month out is about average irl. Not seen player ruled out for a stubbed toe yet but there's still time.

Ankle Sprains Explained

[HUNT3R]

Stubbed toe is only an 'orange' injury, isn't it?

[Guest]

That would make sense, an play with an injection but probably not to the best ability or for the full match.

[Lenzar]

One thing that is really annoying to me is when you see the opposition with an injury, calf strain, pulled hamstring, some type of leg injury, and they don't sub the guy. Next thing you know he is out sprinting everyone on the field and does a super move to beat the GK. All of this while his status bar is red and he is showing the injury. When you check out his form it says he is down to under 30%. How?

I'll answer on behalf of the apologists...

It's your tactics.

[Johnny Bravo]

There should be more info provided by SI on the changes made to a players condition. When you hover over condition/match sharpness it advises the user not to start a player in low condition, but it doesn't say what % condition is considered low. It's all very vague.

More info on condition, about how it effects a players risk of injury/performance etc. would be very useful to the user, especially new users who are playing the game for the first time and aren't familiar with all the little details.

[HUNT3R]

There should be more info provided by SI on the changes made to a players condition. When you hover over condition/match sharpness it advises the user not to start a player in low condition, but it doesn't say what % condition is considered low. It's all very vague.

More info on condition, about how it effects a players risk of injury/performance etc. would be very useful to the user, especially new users who are playing the game for the first time and aren't familiar with all the little details.

They cannot mention a specific number, because then everyone will take that number as cast in stone. SI will say 85% is low. Everyone starts players as low as 85%, but refuse to start a player with 84% Condition. Does that make sense? No. The assistant already gives you indications of how many minutes a player can play. That's already enough info and it's easy to do the math based on what he says.

[Guest]

There comes a point where the user needs to call upon their experience & make a judgement call, FM provides the information you need to make that call & just as irl it means you will make choices that in hindsights turn out to be good or bad decisions.

[Johnny Bravo]

They cannot mention a specific number, because then everyone will take that number as cast in stone. SI will say 85% is low. Everyone starts players as low as 85%, but refuse to start a player with 84% Condition. Does that make sense? No. The assistant already gives you indications of how many minutes a player can play. That's already enough info and it's easy to do the math based on what he says.

I never said a specific number did I? A guideline would be very useful explaining what ranges of condition % are fine to start, which % are at a small risk and which % would be a big risk. .

How do you know everyone would refuse to start a player on 84%? There have obviously been changes made to the condition of players for this edition, so while 84% may have been too low to start previously, in this years edition it may be more acceptable.

[HUNT3R]

I never said a specific number did I? A guideline would be very useful explaining what ranges of condition % are fine to start, which % are at a small risk and which % would be a big risk. .

How do you know everyone would refuse to start a player on 84%? There have obviously been changes made to the condition of players for this edition, so while 84% may have been too low to start previously, in this years edition it may be more acceptable.

" but it doesn't say what % condition is considered low. "

Anyway, there have been changes and this year the Assistant gives you feedback over what's possible as far as game time is concerned.

[Ross Ingersoll]

i did have a guy want to be taken out for a stubbed toe, i just laughed at him. As far as the OP goes, i tend to not start anyone under 92

[Lenzar]

With regards to a stubbed toe...

[Guest]

Well you did have the option to have him play with a painkilling injection.

[HUNT3R]

And it's an orange injury, meaning he can still play, so what's the issue?

[swansongs]

Stubbed toes are serious business. Late fitness tests and 30 minutes of action recommended (80% condition) 5/6 days after they occur.

[MrMungo]

For me it's 90%, generally speaking.

But as has been mentioned before, it depends on the player, and what the replacement is like. If the replacement is of a similar standard, chances are I will play with the fitter player. If the fatigued players has no obvious replacement, and is vital for the team, I may start him down to the low 80s.