Tweaked Target Man: the real Poacher?

[kandersson]

I've always been a fan of the Poacher role both irl and in FM, though in recent editions of the game I kind of struggled to use this role effectively, especially in attacking tactics (I tend to favor a 'control' mentality). This could be partly due to nature of the role as well as my own tactical shortcomings, though I sometimes have the feeling that my players fail to hit the poacher even when they have space and time to do that. Basically I find the poacher ineffective (in my tactics) for two reasons: 1) he's too high up the pitch and usually doesn't get time or space to beat the defensive line 2) when he does, even my most gifted playmakers seem uninterested in playing a killer ball for him, and usually prefer to pass the ball wide to wingers or fullbacks. Ironically (considering my intentions) the poacher would often play through balls himself to supporting forwards or runners from midfield! For all this I simply tend not to use the poacher role, with DLF, DF and CF resulting much more effective in my tactics.

One role I tend to discard immediately is the Target Man, as I prefer to build up play from defence using short passes, creative playmakers and quick, technical strikers. This piece from http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/tactics/playmaker-and-target-man got me thinking though:

'... if those players making the majority of passes to him [...] are instructed to attempt more creative, risky passes then he (the TM) would benefit from being able to run onto through balls played ahead of him. For this he will need good attacking movement (Anticipation, Decisions, Teamwork and Off The Ball) or mobility (Acceleration, Agility and Pace). The Move Into Channels specific player instruction can be selected to make your target man more suited to running onto through balls. You may also want to give him an attacking duty if you want his main focus to be on making forward runs into more dangerous positions rather than creative and linking play.'

This sounded very close to my idea of poacher, and actually has looked very promising from early tests. In identical tactical set-ups, my playmakers and creative attackers seem much more willing to try through balls for the TM than they were for the poacher. Also, specific TI's (shorter passing, pass into space, play out of defence) and the use of a DLP/AP seem to be enough to prevent the dreaded long ball strategy (as my TM really hasn't the physical attributes of a TM and is actually more of a poacher). I'm liking this Target Poacher at the moment...

In many ways, this does the trick of the old 'run onto ball' target man supply option - which by the way I found very useful and would love to see it back.

[ozilthegunner]

Interesting work here.

But what makes the result really any different from an Advanced Forward? At least in my experience, if I play someone as an AF I get basically the same result you are.

[jcw163]

I've been using a TMa similarly to OP and for me the main difference between that and the Advanced Forward is that the AF has "dribble more" by default and not removable. This was a problem for me cos my ST can do almost everything except dribble, so as an AF he often lost the ball by trying to take it on.

[ozilthegunner]

I've been using a TMa similarly to OP and for me the main difference between that and the Advanced Forward is that the AF has "dribble more" by default and not removable. This was a problem for me cos my ST can do almost everything except dribble, so as an AF he often lost the ball by trying to take it on.

I see. The suggestion that playmakers were flinging balls forward for him to 'run onto' suggested to me that he'd at least some of the time be dribbling. But I suppose less so than the AF and I guess the TM defaults to 'hold up ball' too, right? (is this true on attack duty?) and so if he runs on but can't easily finish things up, does he just hold up for backup?

[jcw163]

Obviously there're various factors at play within the tactic (for example my TM has the "back to goal" PPM), but yeh pretty much. I find he makes runs in behind to try and score, but will very rarely try to beat a defender, instead holding the ball and laying off to support if available. Really I was after a way to stop him trying to dribble past people because, basically, he's crap at it

[kandersson]

Interesting work here.

But what makes the result really any different from an Advanced Forward? At least in my experience, if I play someone as an AF I get basically the same result you are.

I'm finding the TM more effective than the AF in this particular tactical style (through balls for the striker in a control/attack mentality) basically for three reasons:

1) the TM attracts more passes, I think it's hardcoded to be this way. A standard TM would get lots of long balls to flick or hold up ball, but with 'pass shorter', 'play out of defence' and 'pass into space' TI's as well as the presence of one or two playmakers then the TM is fed mostly with through balls. The AF does have a similar behavior, but in my experience doesn't get the same amount of supply.

2) the TM has a slightly deeper position than the AF, and often comes deep to get ball: this movement gives the TM more time and space to reach full speed and beat the difensive line when a killer pass is played. In my experience the AF and the Poacher are often too high up the pitch and too close to defenders to achieve the same result, especially within an attacking strategy. It would be nice if they could 'fake' this movement, pretending to come deep and then attacking the space off the ball (something that good poachers do a lot) but right now they can't.

3) the 'dribble less' PI can also be very effective, because the TM will still dribble if he has space and/or a clear chance, but will wisely get rid of the ball if he doesn't, which includes playing with his back to the goal, playing a short pass backwards and immediately attacking the space for a through ball.

[Ghents]

3) the 'dribble less' PI can also be very effective, because the TM will still dribble if he has space and/or a clear chance, but will wisely get rid of the ball if he doesn't, which includes playing with his back to the goal, playing a short pass backwards and immediately attacking the space for a through ball.

I've been using a TM-A in lieu of an AF/P and can say it works out well so long as you have enough playmakers to dish the ball to. The play with back to goal, dribble less, and plays one-twos has been AMAZING for my target man.