Conceding a ton of goals

[PinkSpeedos]

I recently started a new game with my beloved Leeds United and so far I have been pretty successful, we got promoted in the first season and I have just finished my second season in charge (our first in the Premier League) and we finished 10th. During the season we went on a 24 game stretch where we only lost twice and I managed to reach the League Cup final (lost to Man U, which just added to the misery). We were sitting as high as 5th in the league during our good run but we conceded a hell of a lot of goals and had to come back from behind many times. The last 15 games of the season saw me win just twice and we slipped out of the European places but finished way above where we were expected to.

This is how I set up (throughout the good run and the bad)

Mentality = Counter

Team Shape = Structured

Instructions = Tempo (Higher), Defensive Line (Slightly Higher), Closing Down (More) Tackling (Get Stuck In)

Goalkeeper (GK)

FB (Automatic), CB (Defend), CB (Defend), FB (Automatic)

CM (DLP Defend), CM (BWM Support)

AMR (Winger, A) AP (Attack) Inside Forward(A)

False Nine (S)

The idea behind this was that I wanted to win the ball back quickly and attack quickly with the ball. For the most part this has worked really well but as I say, I have conceded a lot of goals. I finished the season having conceded 64 goals (4th most conceded in the league) but I scored 58 (5th most goals scored in the league).

If I can tighten up the defence ahead of next season then with the right additions I could be in with a real chance of a European position at the end of the 3rd season.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Cougar2010]

You have four players not contributing to defence. Another one is getting dragged out of position chasing the ball which probably leaves you heavily outnumbered in defence so I'm not surprised you are conceding a lot.

Football is about balance, if you push for goals you leave yourself open at the back, if you concentrate on defence then scoring is more of an issue. With your tactics you are pushing for goals so score a lot but the flipside is you also concede a lot.

If you want to be more solid in defence you need to focus more on defence and have more players contributing.

[Guest]

There is a rather large disconnect between your attacking players and the rest of the team. Your 4 attacking players are all attacking, there will literally be a gap between the front 4 and back 5. Also automatic duties on your fb's aren't that helpful, you want more movement between the lines and splitting the duties there would help that but at the same same on a 4 2 31 you would want your CM'ers to be holding a bit more, so ergo you want your ap to be the link between cm and attack and then after tht if you are using a f9 so you might want two players who can score goals behind him, if not another role would work, but is your ap the guy you want adding to the scoring threat?

[PinkSpeedos]

Ok so I have made a couple of tweaks to the player roles and duties, I hope this means my striker scores more goals as well rather than leaning more towards a creative force. Hopefully it will bring a bit more balance defensively and offensively.

So now it looks like this.

GK(GK)

FB(S), CB(D), CB(D), FB(A)

CM(BWM D), CM(DLP D)

W(A), AP(S), W(S)

AF(A)

Any thoughts on this?

[Cougar2010]

You'll never have a solid defence by having four players in the AM/ST strata.

Simply by having four players in advanced positions means you automatically leave lots of space for the opposition to attack.

If you want a truly solid defence you have to have more players in deeper positions but you will blunt your attacking edge somewhat. Your decision is what do you want? More solid defence at the expense of attack or as you are plenty of goals but also conceding.

[noikeee]

Ok so I have made a couple of tweaks to the player roles and duties, I hope this means my striker scores more goals as well rather than leaning more towards a creative force. Hopefully it will bring a bit more balance defensively and offensively.

So now it looks like this.

GK(GK)

FB(S), CB(D), CB(D), FB(A)

CM(BWM D), CM(DLP D)

W(A), AP(S), W(S)

AF(A)

Any thoughts on this?

I wouldn't have done any of those changes, why the false 9 being swapped by an advanced forward, for example, that won't help your defence? I'd have pulled the AML/AMR into ML/MR positions instead to give you far more cover on the wings. You can still have an "inside forward" in the ML/MR positions by having them on a wide midfielder role and giving them inside forward instructions: dribble more and cut inside.

[PinkSpeedos]

The False 9 switch isn't for defence, it was an attacking change, my striker didn't really score any goals last season, almost all the goals came from crosses from the right wing and my left winger getting on the end of it. It was very one dimensional and pretty much the only way I could score. I want my striker to chip in with a few more goals and give me more options of scoring.

If I pull the two wingers back into a ML/R role won't my striker become really isolated?

It is important to note here that another formation I used quite a lot was a 4-1-2-2-1 with a DM, AP, BBM in the middle, same roles out wide and a false 9 striker. I still conceded just as many goals. Also tried 2 players in the DM position (with varying roles) but it didn't seem to stem the flow of opposition goals.

It must be perfectly feasible to play 3 players in behind the striker and still defend adequately within the game, there are various teams in real life who employ a similar formation set up so I am sure it can be replicated.

[Cougar2010]

It must be perfectly feasible to play 3 players in behind the striker and still defend adequately within the game, there are various teams in real life who employ a similar formation set up so I am sure it can be replicated.

You have the wrong idea about teams IRL tbh.

Some employ 2 DMs along with the advanced players but in general what you see IRL as a 4231 would be 2*DMs, ML, MC/AMC & MR in FM.

[nomorezen]

The irony of this one is i play very similar to the first post on the chalk board but drop the DLP to the DM position

Mentality = Counter

Team Shape = Highly Structured

Goalkeeper (GK)

FB (Attack), CB (Defend), CB (Defend), FB (Attack)

DM (DLP Defend)

CM (CM Support)

AMR (Winger, S) SS (Attack) AML(Winger, S) - set there tackling and closing down as high as i can.

AF (A)

the counter mentality does get the AML/AMR to track back into their own penalty area i often see mine tackling there in fact my AML gave away two penalties recently, the formation can work but you will need top notch players you groomed for years for the roles so yes that front 4 setup can be made to work with the right players, roles/duties, PPM's and TI/PI's. I would humbly suggest 50 league games unbeaten is proof of that.

[dcaine100]

You'll never have a solid defence by having four players in the AM/ST strata.

Simply by having four players in advanced positions means you automatically leave lots of space for the opposition to attack.

If you want a truly solid defence you have to have more players in deeper positions but you will blunt your attacking edge somewhat. Your decision is what do you want? More solid defence at the expense of attack or as you are plenty of goals but also conceding.

I have to disagree I play a 4-2-3-1 and have by far the best def in the premier league, conceded 7 in 20 games as well as having the best attack, its all about balance.

Below is my set up, note that I have 4 supportive mids and 1 defensive mid that means all 5 mids contribute to def and the team defends as a unit, your wingers should have a good workrate so that they track back as much as possible.

Note: DLP and AP both set to tackle hard (get suprisingly few yellow cards or injurys).

[Cougar2010]

I have to disagree I play a 4-2-3-1 and have by far the best def in the premier league, conceded 7 in 20 games as well as having the best attack, its all about balance.

Below is my set up, note that I have 4 supportive mids and 1 defensive mid that means all 5 mids contribute to def and the team defends as a unit, your wingers should have good a workrate so they track back as much as possible.

While I know that on paper it proves what I said wrong it goes deeper than that and you need to consider why.

Aside from the supporting duties you are employing a reasonably high pressing tactic with a high rep team against opposition who are mostly sitting back against you. Add in the supporting duties to the hard working players and you have the reason it works for you.

The OP is in a different position with a much lower rep team and is using a significantly different 4231.

[PinkSpeedos]

I have set up 2 tactics now, one which very closely resembles what I was using in the first post on this thread and another one where the wingers have been pulled back into ML/R positions and the CMs have been pulled back into the DM slots. I am going to try both of these and see what happens between the 2 and then take it from there in order to try and create something that works in the middle of the 2 extremes.

I also want to try and create something that is a more possession based tactic, something that resembles more what Dcaine has produced.

My reputation will be a lot higher in the coming season so I may see some slightly different results using the same system I used in the previous system. As Dcaine has pointed out, I have often seen my wingers tracking back and making tackles in deeper positions and my right winger finished the season with the one of the highest amount of yards covered. So something is working on that front.

It might just come down to individual player instructions and a slight tweak of the roles that they have, as well as signing the correct players for the type of game that I want to play. As nomorezen says, it could take a few seasons to mold it exactly the way I want it, which is all part of being a manager with a long term plan I suppose. I can't complain with how I finished the season, I finished way higher than I should have done, so I have done something right. Just have to tweak it in order to improve on this year's success.