Kit Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Hello everyone. I wanted to get people's thoughts on the importance of possession. Ever since Barcelona became so dominant with their tiki-taka system it seems like 60%+ possession has been the Holy Grail in the game and in real life - and many people have desperately tried to replicate this in the game. But I've found I can better build winning teams who score fantastic goals when I actually have less possession than the opposition. I still dominate the games in terms of attempts on goal and the scoreline. I have a Lazio team that walked Serie A in the third and fourth seasons - also losing the Champions League on pens in the third and winning it in the fourth season. We play a 4-1DM-2CM-2-1 formation and very rarely have more possession than the opposition. We averaged around 47% in Serie A. What are your thoughts on what I perceive to be the long-held and wrong view that more possession equals better football and better results? How do you view possession in relation to your own tactic and building a winning formula? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaroldHammond Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Possession for possession sake is the one thing I hate in football (LVG). I would much rather make our time count, looking for that killer ball or dribble rather than a sideways/backward pass. Rarely do I use the retain possession shout on this game anymore as I have had much more success with tactics that give us less than 50% possession. Like you said even with less possession than the opposition we still win, still get more shots and more chances. Possession with purpose is a different matter though.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Every sport has its coaching/tactical fads - the 4-3 (then 3-4, then back to the 4-3) defense in American football; "small ball" in basketball; the neutral-zone trap in the NHL; the computer-driven defensive shift in baseball. The possession obsession is the latest fad in soccer. And it makes sense - if I control the ball, my opponent does not. The key is not playing possession for its own sake. Yesterday's UCL match between Real Madrid and Roma was a pretty good example of using possession for more than just keeping the ball away from the opponent. In the first half, Real Madrid had 2/3 of the possession, but they moved the ball crisply, with a purpose, pressing Roma back in their end, keeping the ball moving, pressing for openings in the defense. I don't know what the final possession stats were, but I would be surprised if RM held the ball for anything less than 60% of the match. Not surprisingly, they won. However, Roma did have a few excellent counter-attacking chances, and had a (well-deserved, IMO) penalty been given in the second half, the result might well have been different. OTOH, possession for its own sake is more harmful than helpful, if used for an entire match. Languidly passing the ball back and forth can leave a side flat-footed and ill-equipped to defend when possession is lost. Again, looking at Real Madrid last night, theur players were extremely quick to react when possession was lost, and Roma struggled to get any kind of prolonged attack going. For myself, I like my teams to take good care of the ball at the beginning of the match, then ramp up the risks I'm willing to take as the match goes on. If I get a lead, especially away, I usually turn back to the possession game as a defensive measure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orikoru Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I despise tiki taka in real life, I find it boring and much prefer a devastating counter attack, I find this style more exciting to watch. In FM though, I do use the 'retain possession' instruction. I find keeping more of the ball helps in a number of ways, offensively and defensively. In away games I use the 'counter' mentality, but still with 'retain possession' for when the counter isn't on. On a basic level, if you've got the ball the other team aren't scoring. Without retain possession I can't seem to get as much of a foothold in games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Doesn't bother me in the slightest, and seeing as possession in FM is measured in a different way to how most statistical gathering places measure it, it isn't immediately possible to compare FM possession to real life possession anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 @RTHerringbone I didn't realise it was different in FM. Can you tell me how it's different please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Frankly I can't understand the obsession with possession. Even Guardiola hated being associated with 'tiki-taka', the fact is penetration over possession anyday. I am more obsessed with the quality of my possession instead of the quantity. Last season with Torino when we did the quad, which I showed on Youtube, you will see every major match we played = low possession, but the majority of my chances were quality. U should be more concerned with the quality of your chances and when i say quality, I am not referring to ccc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der General Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 When your opposition doesn't have the ball, they cannot score. Simple as that. That's where the obsession comes from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 @RTHerringbone I didn't realise it was different in FM. Can you tell me how it's different please? Have a read of the first post in this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/445500-The-Art-of-Possession-Football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 @RTHerringbone I didn't realise it was different in FM. Can you tell me how it's different please? FM measure possession as by the clock, whether the ball is being held for a throw in, goal kick etc. so it is just an either we have it or they have it equation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Thanks for the link and info. Interesting stuff on how possession is calculated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGuitarist Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Possession is just the best tool to set out your shape. As Pep once said, “The intention is not to move the ball, rather to move the opposition.” There's a difference between a team that plays possession football & a team that practises positional play (Juego de posicion) though. Here's a good read; http://thesefootballtimes.co/2014/09/13/how-to-coach-possession-football/ Teams like Guardiola’s Barcelona, and now his Bayern Munich, practice not only being comfortable in possession, but specific passing patterns to create space for their tactical plans. So when we’re watching and see the midfielders making short passes to each other back and forth, it’s not just a pass for the sake of it or so they can have a fantastic pass completion ration at the end of the game; they are trying to draw the opposition in or move opposition players in/out of areas of the field to create space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summatsupeer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I used to, but i'm having lots of fun with an attacking tactic. If I get more suitable players I think it could be even more effective with better execution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomit Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Edited; double post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomit Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Possession? If you don't have possession, you can't score. If you have possession, then the opposition doesn't, and they can't score. But if you have possession but only use it to pass the ball between your players, you won't score either. So there's a balance in there somewhere. But I'm quite certain that I want to have possession rather than not having it. And it's perfectly possible to play a fast(ish) tempo, attacking football and still have most of the possession, in virtually every match, home or away. We do it twice a week here at Arsenal where I manage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 possession is only effective......if it is effective possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinby Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 possession is only effective......if it is effective possession. 100% mate. You can have 30% poss but create more CCC and win a game. Its how you use it that counts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansongs Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Even possession with no end product prevents the opposition from scoring. Ergo it is effective possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark316 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 u guys only need to look at leicester irl they never dominate posession. but man u do. so that tells us leicester may only have 38 percent but they use it wisely. Man u have 60 to 70 percent and do nothing with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehibb Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Apparently my board and supporters at Liverpool care about it judging by the questions the media keep posing me. Nevermind the fact we topped our Europa league group and are top of the league, winning 10 and drawing 3 of first 13 games. In previous versions I've always aimed for that 55-65% possession rate and it does feel weird only having 40-50% possession using an 'attacking' system. But yeah, can't argue with the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneRomney Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I have grown to dislike possession based systems on FM, and ever so slightly IRL. Being a fan United it is almost mandatory these days to hate possession based football. Guess who said this: “We didn’t want the ball because when Barcelona press and win the ball back, we lose our position – I never want to lose position on the pitch so I didn’t want us to have the ball, we gave it away, I told my players that we could let the ball help us win and that we had to be compact, closing spaces.” In FM terms I like to be more direct and quick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansongs Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 u guys only need to look at leicester irl they never dominate posession. but man u do. so that tells us leicester may only have 38 percent but they use it wisely. Man u have 60 to 70 percent and do nothing with it. United are 5th despite having a poor squad and an injury crisis. They're playing children every week in the most competitive league in the world . Swansea went from being a nothing club in the football league doldrums to a League Cup winning Premier League side by committing to possession football (Martinez, Sousa, Rodgers, Laudrup), with no billionaire Russian propping them up behind the scenes. Now they're going to get relegated because Monk abandoned it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark316 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Yeah but Man u have not had that issue all season. there have been times when man u should have maybe said lets risk it. but hey im not paid as much as lvg. i agree with the swansea comment. It really up to the manager and the players u have if im honest. If your winning a game i would want to keep the ball. this forces the other team to come looking for it. leaving gaps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domus Clamantium Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 What irks me about "work ball into box", and this is related to possession football, is that it's more than just "don't shoot from distance" and I find it reduces the number of chances created. I wish they had that shout! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajano080 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Very simple. The goal of this sport is to score and prevent the oppontent from doing so. If I want to score, I have to have the ball, it is imposible to do otherwise. And if I want to prevent the opponent from scoring, I should have the ball, as it is impossible to score without it. That's why most of the best teams irl have the majority of possession on average, and that's why the best two (by far) teams (Barca and Bayern) irl dominate possession. However, I'm not saying it is impossible to win using other styles; Chelsea has done it, Leicester is doing it. However, imo possession football is the most effective. And I mean having possession but always looking to break through defence and score, not just having 80% possession just for the sake of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder88 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I have just played newly promoted Almeria at home finishing with just 41% possession and beat them 5-0,so if used properly it is obviously effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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