Are they reallly unfit?

[Hilly27]

This has bothered me for years, so now I'm going to get it off my chest, and it's the issue of fitness, or otherwise. Because of the fitness issue I always try to have the best part of two teams if I'm at a club that's going to compete in Europe. I monitor their fitness, rest them between games if I have a run of games in close succession etc. I won't play players who are under 90%, because I know, come 60-70 minutes they will be exhausted.

Now here's the thing. I will frequently play teams who turn up with their players in a state of exhaustion. Starting fitness of 75% or less sometimes. Checking the opposition squad before the game, most are shown as needing a rest, but they all get picked. But from what I can see, this lack of fitness seems to make no difference to the actual game. Whether watching the game or via commentary they still charge about as normal. On several occasions the opposition are all in the 'red' in the second half, down to below 50% but still manage to overload and nick a late goal. I find myself screaming at the screen, "But for God's sake, he's only playing on one leg"

Slightly off point, but relevant is that the AI is pretty poor at squad rotation generally.

So is a gross lack of fitness actually registered by the match engine, because as far as I can tell there appears to be no change in performance in the actual game. Or am I missing something?

[HUNT3R]

This was discussed in a fair amount of detail before : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/448415-Player-condition-how-low-is-acceptable-to-play?p=10720695&viewfull=1#post10720695

Neil Brock posted that performances should be affected from around 60%.

[Hilly27]

This was discussed in a fair amount of detail before : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/448415-Player-condition-how-low-is-acceptable-to-play?p=10720695&viewfull=1#post10720695

Neil Brock posted that performances should be affected from around 60%.

Hmm, perhaps I wasn't being clear enough. I saw that thread and Neil Brock from SI said "I believe it only starts to affect performance at around 60% and below". He thinks! What I was after was a definitive answer from the match engine designers that fatigue is factored into how the engine behaves.

There is a lot of chat and speculation in that thread, but no real answer. I suspect, perhaps wrongly, that the match engine doesn't recognise fatigue, but the whole issue is covered up by stuff such as player needs a rest icons, AssMan in games telling you to take off an 'exhausted' player etc.

I think I've seen evidence in the game to suggest that a very tired player may succumb more easily to injury, but frankly, playing a very tired team with your fully fit team doesn't seem to affect the outcome. The very tired players still seem to play as effectively, regardless of their fitness.

So my thread is not about how we manage our players and their fitness, but whether the lack of fitness is actually recognised by the match engine so that performance is affected as we would expect.

[HUNT3R]

It's still an SI member (and an experienced one), so he's going to be very close to correct, if not 100% correct. There is a performance drop off. That's not speculation.

Anyway, the lower the condition (as said in that thread), the higher the chance of injuries. Also not speculation.

If a player is listed as tired/very tired (the orange icon) then he's jaded, which also has performance knock-ons. That's not speculation either.

[Hilly27]

It's still an SI member (and an experienced one), so he's going to be very close to correct, if not 100% correct. There is a performance drop off. That's not speculation.

Anyway, the lower the condition (as said in that thread), the higher the chance of injuries. Also not speculation.

If a player is listed as tired/very tired (the orange icon) then he's jaded, which also has performance knock-ons. That's not speculation either.

Steady Old Lad, I think you are being a little too defensive here, and quite unnecessarily so. I acknowledged in my own comments about the greater risk of injury when tired. My reference to speculation was not derogatory, simply how we report and reflect our own experiences within the game, not necessarily supported by hard evidence.

You tell me there is a performance drop off. If there is, it's not evident in my experience. Perhaps I win too much, and therefore don't notice it:)

My real question is, whether the match engine is designed to recognise tired players, and modify their performances accordingly. If you are telling me that there is a drop off in performance with tired players, then it follows that the match engine must be recognising that fact. But as neither you or I designed the match engine I was rather looking for a definitive answer from SI. The more we players understand how the game mechanics work, the easier it becomes to adapt our gameplay to be successful.

And after all, it's only a game.

[HUNT3R]

You just mentioned that the talk was speculation and I gave you the info about what isn't speculation. SI do not comment much in these threads, so that post from Neil is one to really take note of. In the end, the fact is still that there is a performance drop even if he is slightly off (not sure that he actually is, mind) in the actual %.

[Hilly27]

You just mentioned that the talk was speculation and I gave you the info about what isn't speculation. SI do not comment much in these threads, so that post from Neil is one to really take note of. In the end, the fact is still that there is a performance drop even if he is slightly off (not sure that he actually is, mind) in the actual %.

Thanks, I received all that, and having seen Neil for more years than I care to remember on these forums, I would no more gainsay him, than fly to the moon. I just hope you take my point. It's a question about the design of the match engine. If there's no answer, so be it.

[Mrlee.1986]

I have to agree in part with a little of this in fairness, I've played LLM and some of the teams down there had 7 or 8 of their outfield players basically dead on their feet (40-50% and the red circle) yet they still seem to get the ball and charge up the pitch like usain bolt with a rocket up his backside.. I do think/it does look like tiredness seems to affect human controlled teams more than ai controlled teams in that if we play with half a tired team we notice, but it doesn't seem to affect the opposition at all/as much..

I know LLM is completely different due to poor facilities etc, but still.

[HUNT3R]

I have to agree in part with a little of this in fairness, I've played LLM and some of the teams down there had 7 or 8 of their outfield players basically dead on their feet (40-50% and the red circle) yet they still seem to get the ball and charge up the pitch like usain bolt with a rocket up his backside.. I do think/it does look like tiredness seems to affect human controlled teams more than ai controlled teams in that if we play with half a tired team we notice, but it doesn't seem to affect the opposition at all/as much..

I know LLM is completely different due to poor facilities etc, but still.

Players won't get tired midway into a sprint (like we'd expect IRL) with low condition. It's just that they will play worse - attributes are affected.