Arsene Wenger's Invincibles

[NabsKebabs]

Woah check this out...

 

Just started an Arsenal save and used this tactic as a foundation to base it off...I twisted it to suit the players better. I have played one league game so far...

 

Hat tricks for both of the new boys....

Here's my slight variation of the tactic...there's quite a few PI's such as both the wide midfielders cutting inside and dribbling more..Bellerin and Monreal fewer risky passes. Coquelin hold position, close down less and fewer risky passes.

Great pre season too, I put the tactic to test by arranging friendlies with tough opponents:

What a great OP....cheers mate

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by NabsKebabs

[saihtam]

Would love to know if original post uses any specific player instructions also or are all set with default?
Want to try something similar with lower league side.
 

[brigzi]

1 hour ago, saihtam said:

Would love to know if original post uses any specific player instructions also or are all set with default?
Want to try something similar with lower league side.
 

 

Quote

Goalkeeper - Jens Lehmann

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Petr Cech (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Goalkeeper (Defend): Distribute Quickly

Key Attributes: Experienced goalkeeper, solid across the board

Right Back - Lauren

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Francis Coquelin (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Right Fullback (Support): N/A

Key Attributes: Stamina, Work Rate, Strength, Tackling, Marking, Positioning, Anticipation, Concentration, Bravery

Centre Back - Kolo Toure

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Laurent Koscielny (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Centre Back (Defend): N/A

Key Attributes: Anticipation, Concentration, Positioning, Tackling, Marking, Strength, Pace, Acceleration, Balance, Bravery

Centre Back - Sol Campbell

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Kurt Zouma (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Centre Back (Defend): N/A

Key Attributes: Strength, Pace, Jumping, Heading, Tackling, Positioning, Anticipation, Concentration, Leadership

Left Back - Ashley Cole

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Jorge (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Left Wingback (Attack): N/A

Attributes: Dribbling, Crossing, Technique, Pace, Acceleration, Work Rate, Stamina, Anticipation, Concentration, Positioning, Tackling

Right Midfield - Freddie Ljungberg

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Alexis Sanchez (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Wide Midfielder Right (Attack): N/A

Attributes: Finishing, Off the Ball, Pace, Acceleration, Technique, Stamina, Work Rate, Determination

Central Midfield - Gilberto Silva

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: William Carvalho (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Central Midfielder (Defend): Close Down Much Less

Key Attributes: Positioning, Anticipation, Concentration, Tackling, Strength, Marking, Stamina, Work Rate

Central Midfield - Patrick Vieira

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Paul Pogba (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Central Midfielder (Support): N/A

Key Attributes: Leadership, Determination, Technique, Passing, First Touch, Vision, Dribbling, Balance, Off the Ball, Positioning, Concentration, Anticipation, Tackling, Decisions

Left Midfield - Robert Pires

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Santi Cazorla (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Wide Playmaker Left (Attack): N/A

Key Attributes: Vision, Technique, Passing, First Touch, Flair, Off the Ball, Composure, Anticipation

Attacking Midfield - Dennis Bergkamp

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Mesut Ozil (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Advanced Playmaker (Attack): Hold Up Ball, Get Forward More

Key Attributes: Technique, Vision, Passing, First Touch, Off the Ball, Composure, Finishing, Anticipation, Decisions

Striker - Thierry Henry

Attributes, Individual Training & PPMs: Anthony Martial (history)

Player Role & Instructions: Complete Forward (Support): Move into Channels

Key Attributes: Pace, Acceleration, Dribbling, Off the Ball, Finishing, Composure, Agility (Flair and Team Work would be ideal)

hard to miss on the first post

Edited July 5, 2017 by brigzi

[saihtam]

1 hour ago, brigzi said:

 

hard to miss on the first post

Damn, read it all in phone, did not notice or skipped a bit by the player stats.
Thanks

Edited July 5, 2017 by saihtam

[andrewsgn]

On 6/9/2017 at 08:44, andrewsgn said:

I'm having great success in FM 17 using this tactic as inspiration. Playing as Aston Villa, I'm 1st in the Championship after 28 matches. We've scored 52 (3rd in championship) and conceded 22 (1st). We just beat Southampton to advance in the FA cup and lost in the EFL cup semifinals vs Man Utd. Highlights of the season so far are a 3-2 win vs Southampton in the FA cup, a 1-0 win vs Tottenham in the EFL cup and a 0-0 away draw to Man Utd. 

The changes I've made are:

- Control instead of Attacking. I started with Attacking but found we gave the ball away too easily. I think to play this tactic on Attacking you really need the right players, which Villa certainly do not have. With Control we are averaging about 51% possession but are still quite aggressive going forward. 

- Changed "Bergkamp" to AM(S). I added Get Further Forward, More Risky Passes and Shoot Less Often to mimic the AP role without the added dribbling/playmaker designation. I found the AP(A) recklessly dribbled into the teeth of the defense too often, probably because I don't have the right player for this role. I've found the AM(S) still makes a lot of forward runs but sits back a little more to pick out passes. The support role also has the added benefit of dropping back more to help defend. I find we often defend in a 4-1-4-1 with the AM(S) dropping into midfield while the CM(D) drops deeper.

- Added Close Down More to "Henry" and "Bergkamp". This was inspired by the video @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! posted above. A minor change but I've found pressing the CB's leads to a lot of easy turnovers. I usually disable this against tougher competition.

- Changed "Ashley Cole" to a FB(A) with Run Wide With Ball and Dribble More PI's. This is a minor change and probably makes no difference but I've gotten more assists without the Cross From Byline PI that comes hardcoded with a WB(A). 

- Added an alternate tactic that drops "Vieira" and "Gilberto" into the DM strata as a RPM(S) and A(D). This was to address the issue @ceefax the cat posted re: the CM(D) being hard coded to close down more. I usually only use this tactic when we are heavy underdogs or if I'm worried about an opposing threat from AMC. The RPM still gets forward to support the attack but the Anchorman does a better job of shielding the back line. 

- They key to this tactic for me has been Scott Hogan. I started the season with Kodjia as "Henry" but he has the Likes to Beat Offside Trap PPM which I find to be a deal breaker in FM 17. Things really clicked when I started using Hogan instead. For anyone trying this tactic I'd suggest somebody with the Comes Deep To Get Ball PPM for this role. Hogan leads the Championship with 19 goals in 21 starts for me.

I'm still getting fantastic results with this tactic. I easily won the Championship in my first season as Villa. Scored 91 and conceded 40 which were both best in the league. I'm currently 5th in the Premier League after 8 matches which is a great start for a team predicted to finish 16th. In terms of the tactic I've only made minor changes from my previous post:

- I couldn't get the 2DM version to work so I gave up on that and now drop the mentality to Counter in tougher games. I've used this version in away draws to Tottenham and Man City and a 3-0 home win over Liverpool so am happy with the results so far.

- I changed the "Bergkamp" role back to AP(A). I really think an attacking duty is best for this position but you need to have the right player, which I now have in Marco Asensio. Madrid transfer listed him and I managed to pick him up for 9m. He had 1 goal in 4 matches as AM(S) and has 3 goals and 3 assists in 4 matches since switching to AP(A). I may tinker with AM(A) to get rid of the playmaker ball magnet as I've noticed the attack is more focused on the right instead of the left. My "Pires" and "Vieira" have gotten much lower match ratings since making this change and "Bergkamp" now sees much more of the ball where it was previously spread evenly between the three. I'm worried about my attack stalling if Asensio is marked out. 

- I also signed Kristoffer Ajer from Celtic and am experimenting with changing the CM(D) to DLP(D) when he's in the lineup. I haven't used this enough to form an opinion on its effectiveness

[Arsenal71]

As one of the old guard on here, its nice to see new tactical genius on here replicating good old systems.  Ill give this a go. KUTGW.

[metalface13]

I'm struggling to find someone to adequately fill the Viera role. Any recommendations for a top team like Arsenal?

[Jean0987654321]

2 hours ago, metalface13 said:

I'm struggling to find someone to adequately fill the Viera role. Any recommendations for a top team like Arsenal?

I have a few. Naby Keita, Paul Pogba, Cesc Fabregas, Ander Herrera...

[yau]

I think the most similar player to Vieira is N'Zonzi

[thomit]

9 hours ago, metalface13 said:

I'm struggling to find someone to adequately fill the Viera role. Any recommendations for a top team like Arsenal?

There are quite a few box-to-box type players in the game with good attributes to take on Vieira's role, but not all of them with the same physical presence in height and weight. I'd probably try and train someone like Bazoer or Goretzka into the role. Bazoer in particular looks very promising in my save - young and still "shapeable".

[metalface13]

Thanks guys! Pogba and Herrera are already at ManU, I'm playing on FM17, so I doubt I'll be able to pry either of them away, at least in first season. All the other suggestions are good ones, thanks guys! Dare I bring Cesc back?

[axehan1]

Thank God for these old(ish) threads, these tactics (especially with inverted wingers) work a treat in FM18, this thread and Ozil's Sachi tactic have stopped me from going back to FM17.

[False 9]

1 hour ago, axehan1 said:

Thank God for these old(ish) threads, these tactics (especially with inverted wingers) work a treat in FM18, this thread and Ozil's Sachi tactic have stopped me from going back to FM17.

What changes to this did you make in FM18?

[axehan1]

This is my take on the Invincibles

Home games for this one.

This is my version of Sacchi's

 

[aditya]

up

[Jean0987654321]

14 minutes ago, aditya said:

up

???

What are you trying to say??

[Delial]

Hi everybody,

Is there anybody trying to replicate this tactic in FM2019 ?
Definitely my favourite of all time. Congrats @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! !

Edited April 18, 2019 by Delial

[Riquelme86]

On 18/04/2019 at 15:27, Delial said:

Hi everybody,

Is there anybody trying to replicate this tactic in FM2019 ?
Definitely my favourite of all time. Congrats @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! !

I tried!

 

Shamelessly copied. Used BustTheNet for the medium block.

Attemped to use Inverted wingers on both flanks, but had more success with a WP on the left.

 

Playing with FC Copenhagen in the Danish league, I'm a very big fish in a small pond. So not sure if the tactic holds, or if the opposition just fears my team and play cautiously, and/or i field vastly superior players,

 

[Delial]

Le 20/04/2019 à 16:12, Riquelme86 a dit :

I tried!

 

Shamelessly copied. Used BustTheNet for the medium block.

Attemped to use Inverted wingers on both flanks, but had more success with a WP on the left.

 

Playing with FC Copenhagen in the Danish league, I'm a very big fish in a small pond. So not sure if the tactic holds, or if the opposition just fears my team and play cautiously, and/or i field vastly superior players,

 

Very cool results!

Do you have any PI’s ?

I’m trying to recreate the tactic with Napoli but I don’t think I have the right players to do it for now.

[Riquelme86]

17 hours ago, Delial said:

Very cool results!

Do you have any PI’s ?

I’m trying to recreate the tactic with Napoli but I don’t think I have the right players to do it for now.

Only the APM (Hold up ball & get further forward)

In a competitive league like Serie A, playing exclusively on Attacking might get you murdered though (Has been my experience using this tactic with Valencia)

Moved the APM forward to striker postition with some succes in la liga, till i can make some transfers. Countering teams on cautious has been somewhat succesful 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Riquelme86

[gpassosbh]

So, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! came back strong again with his tactics, so it´s time for the famous question.

Anyone tried to replicate this in FM20?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, gpassosbh said:

So, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! came back strong again with his tactics, so it´s time for the famous question.

Anyone tried to replicate this in FM20?

This is possibly going to be another can of worms as I don't think it's possible to do a particularly good job using the FM2020 tactics creator.

Ideally you'd want a mentality distribution something like this:

            Attacking
                        Attacking
Attacking    Positive   Defensive   Positive
Attacking   Defensive   Defensive   Positive
                 Attacking

I'd recommend experimenting with:

• Attacking team mentality with lots of Support duties
• Balanced (or even cautious) team mentality with lots of Attack duties

Playing around with adding Play Down the Left and Overlap left to create that left flank.

It's absolutely infuriating trying to get the individual mentalities right. I think that the "Attacking" criteria must be narrow as I seem to go back and forth between Positive to Very Attacking; once I finally find a combination that works, it messes up something else or I end up changing so much it is no longer in any way reflective of the way I want to play.. 

[Djuicer]

GK - Standard keeper. Lehman

RB - FB support. Might be wingback support. Lauren

RCD - CDd. Kolo Toure was the better ball player but dunno if he was a true BPD.

LCD - CDd. Campbell was a stopper, but the right player will play as one even wo the actual duty. Still it can work with it too if you want to migate space.

LB - WBs or CWBs. Cole.

RM - Raumdeuter but deeper. Ljungberg. Strenght was running and timing his runs.

CM - DMs or DMd. Silva, sat back and protected. Recycled possession.

CM - VOLs or BBM. Vieira, leader of the team. Did everything.

LM - WPa or IWa. Pires, the techically exellent frenchman.

ST - DLFs/a. Bergkamp linked midfield to attack.

ST - CFs. Henry was the outstanding player of this team. Deserved atleast 1 ballon d or.

 

Style is kinda easy, focus down the left side with Cole, Pires and Henry. 2 Strikers can be used now due to intro of LOE.

They sat at with a mid block, struck on the "counter" with HIGH pace.

PI's on Ljungberg to create deepdeuter. On Pires to get further forward and on Henry to stay wide and run wide with the ball.

 

This gets:
BAL-BAL (or VA-VA on attack)

VA-POS-BAL-VA (POS)

ATT-BAL-BAL-POS

BAL

Lowering Ljugberg to support and adding get further forward gets him to POS.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Djuicer

[Impacto]

This is my favorite tactic on FM 18! I remember being bored at work, scrolling through the forums and finding this thread. I was reading and coulnd't wait to get home and try it out. I've used it with many teams and it was a success with all of them except one - a relegation side in spain that had massive problems so I don't blame it on the tactic, I just forced it on them and it backfired. But overall, it's great and not game breaking, just fun to play with if you have the right players. 

I also tried an inverted version with Roma, because my striker was lefty and it was great again.

The main weapon of this tactic is the WM. I am not on FM right now, but I have a screenshot here from another save using the standart version:

Just look at those numbers!! 20 goals and 26 assists from 38 games with 8.18 avg rating. This is ISNANE!

Obviously this player is really good for the Swedish league, but still those numbers are amazing. The WM plays very differently from a typical Winger. He lurks around and makes runs at the right time, and he is on the end of the crosses coming from the attacking leftback on the opposite side. He also recieves a lot of great passes from the WP, who cuts inside and sprays through balls to the WM constantly. A winger stays much wider and does not have the same impact in the box as the WM. This works on FM 20 as well and I will cover that in a moment. 

I found that it doesn't matter which is the strongest foot of the AP. Right or Left works equally fine, as long as the player is a good playmaker in general. Just make sure the player here is a good finisher too. The WP, WM and AP get the best ratings. The CF as well if he is really good. The CMd gets low ratings most of the time because he is not involved offensivelly, but he is very important in defence. The CMs is as you would expect - solid box to box that supports the team in every phase. Defensively my teams have been a bit leaky, but we score loads so it evens out. The only changes I make in-game is to drop the defensive line deeper when we want to shut up shop. 

This tactic works with small teams, too! I've tried it succesfully in the Irish league, Swedish league, the conference and Serie B. It's beautiful to watch. But be careful, it's not a plug and play. I tried it in a team that did not have the right players and it was a disaster. 

Now onto FM 20 

Recently I put it on and I decided to try it out with Milan just to see how it would work. I replicated everything that I could. For the new stuff I just used common sense. Made the team press moderately in a mid-block and and put counterpressing and counter attacks on. The player roles are the same, only the CMs I made a proper Box to Box. 

I only played  5 games with it in won 4 of them I think. Buonaventura plays as the WM on the right and even though he is not natural in the position, he got a hat trick in the first game. Scored another one in the second game and did nothing in the last two. The WP was Hakan with the hard name - you know him, the turkish guy with good free kicks. He banged a few from range. The AP is some Pedro guy, good all rounder. He scored as well, but mostly from set pieces. The CFs did not get involved much in any of the games, this might need adjustment. Counter attacks were not there, we scored from build up most of the time. But that could be because of the opposition being super defensive.

The main difference from FM 18 is the possession. We are having 58-60% most games even away on FM 20, on FM 18 it was quite a bit lower . This is weird and again, it could be just the opposition. The defence also appears to be more solid. Barely conceded any chances in those games, one was against Lazio iirc. The other main difference is the wing backs involvement. Because they made them so dynamic this year, they are everywhere. Even the FBs gets involved a lot, that was not the case on FM 18. The attacking WB is a constant threat and got a few goals as well. He gets in the box quite a bit, I like it. 

Overall I would say give this a shot! One day I will get bored with FM 18 and play this more and report on this with some seasons behind my back. But I think solid football concepts should be appliable on any FM, so this should work just fine with some little adjustments. 

 

[04texag]

3 hours ago, Impacto said:

. 

Now onto FM 20 

Recently I put it on and I decided to try it out with Milan just to see how it would work. I replicated everything that I could. For the new stuff I just used common sense. Made the team press moderately in a mid-block and and put counterpressing and counter attacks on. The player roles are the same, only the CMs I made a proper Box to Box. 

I only played  5 games with it in won 4 of them I think. Buonaventura plays as the WM on the right and even though he is not natural in the position, he got a hat trick in the first game. Scored another one in the second game and did nothing in the last two. The WP was Hakan with the hard name - you know him, the turkish guy with good free kicks. He banged a few from range. The AP is some Pedro guy, good all rounder. He scored as well, but mostly from set pieces. The CFs did not get involved much in any of the games, this might need adjustment. Counter attacks were not there, we scored from build up most of the time. But that could be because of the opposition being super defensive.

The main difference from FM 18 is the possession. We are having 58-60% most games even away on FM 20, on FM 18 it was quite a bit lower . This is weird and again, it could be just the opposition. The defence also appears to be more solid. Barely conceded any chances in those games, one was against Lazio iirc. The other main difference is the wing backs involvement. Because they made them so dynamic this year, they are everywhere. Even the FBs gets involved a lot, that was not the case on FM 18. The attacking WB is a constant threat and got a few goals as well. He gets in the box quite a bit, I like it. 

 

 

Can you post a screenshot of your FM 20? You're referencing roles very different from the previous post so just not wanting to guess to much as I read your comments.

[Impacto]

Here you go:

This is how the tactic looks. This is pretty much the main squad. 

I correct myself, we haven't actually conceded in the last 5 games with this tactic. The team hasn't even learned it yet. 

The only PI in the whole team is for the AP:

The rest of tactic looks like this:

I hope it's all clear now.

Bear in mind, that I have only used this in 5 games, but I did like what I saw. No idea of how it will perform long term, but I really like the way the players on the wings move. I hope this helps  

[denen123]

On 11/08/2020 at 23:56, Impacto said:

Here you go:

This is how the tactic looks. This is pretty much the main squad. 

I correct myself, we haven't actually conceded in the last 5 games with this tactic. The team hasn't even learned it yet. 

The only PI in the whole team is for the AP:

The rest of tactic looks like this:

I hope it's all clear now.

Bear in mind, that I have only used this in 5 games, but I did like what I saw. No idea of how it will perform long term, but I really like the way the players on the wings move. I hope this helps  

I like the set up.

Question: How do you deal with opposition build up? With the feature added for CB distribution(where CB's sit in the box during build up), even though it is helpful to us the users, it also means the AI uses this to the fullest(even small teams utilize it).

I operate the same type of press & block with my CB's, Blind & Veltman, who are not the quickest & i also utilize the PDKD + split block. It works, but we obviously get mauled once in a while by the big boys.

I'm just asking to know how you see your defense acting, albeit how solid your games have been.

[Impacto]

Honestly I can't tell you. I played only 5 games to quickly test it and I barely saw any highlights for the opposition(played on key). But we never played agains the big boys, so who knows. I am having so much fun on FM 18 right now and I haven't played further on this one. Once I play some more I will do a full season update with more details. 

[Impacto]

Alright I finished a season with it and... it's weird. The tactic is fine, we finished 2nd just behind Juventus and we were in contention until the last day. The problem is, it plays nothing like Wenger's invincibles. It's more like Simeone's Atletico tbh. There was no sexy football, the playmakers don't playmake at all and the striker barely does what he is supposed to. He playes as mobile target man at best. The WM is still great, Bonaventura got himself 15 goals, but he was the top goalscorer... for the whole season  It's sad boys, what can I say. 

The positives are - we were rock solid in defence all season. Finished the season with just 19 goals conceded and 25 clean sheets. We were also on a massive 23 undefeated streak at one time and just two unlucky draws cost us the title. 

Going forward though we were crap. Ended up with just 59 goals in the league. 6 or 7 of those were penalties. We scored a bit from long shots as well. But the pattern of the WP drifting inside and finding the WM with a defence splitting ball that was so awesome in FM 18 is non-existant. Never saw it once. The AP also doesn't do much. I barely touched the tactic whole season, I only gave some PIs to some players - roam and move into channels to the AP, get further forward to the WP and roam to the WM, but not much changed going forward. I briefly tried to press higher up, but it didn't feel right and I dropped it right back. 

Here are some screens:

Good season anyway. Just not much fun to watch and totally different playing style to the FM 18 version of the tactic

The most unspectatular set of ratings I've ever seen from my teams 

The unbeaten streak was a surprise. Not playing in Europe helped for sure. 

Never in my life have I ever seen those two messages. Not what I expected for sure 

Look at this... Kessie is MoM with just 29 completed passes.The team overall has below 400 for the whole game, while Atalanta have 700. Crazy. 

Overall I am very surprised. The tactic is very different in it's current form from what is intended, but it's still a good tactic. If you ever wanted to play like Atletico Madrid, this is a great option 

I am sure with some tweaks it can improve offensively and maybe with some better players. But yeah, it can't compare to the awesomness of this in FM 18. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Impacto
Name fix and spelling

[Kolarov's missing tooth]

@Impacto I've generally found trying to set up attacking tactics in FM20 in the same way that would produce lovely football in FM2018 doesn't work and leads to dull football. Tried with something like this and Ozil's Total Football (my FM life has basically been stealing his ideas for the past two/three years) and both are really low on goals (defensively generally excellent, though). No idea what it is about the match engine but so far no adaptation I've tried has worked. Will basically have to end up trying something completely different.

[Impacto]

16 minutes ago, Kolarov's missing tooth said:

@Impacto I've generally found trying to set up attacking tactics in FM20 in the same way that would produce lovely football in FM2018 doesn't work and leads to dull football. Tried with something like this and Ozil's Total Football (my FM life has basically been stealing his ideas for the past two/three years) and both are really low on goals (defensively generally excellent, though). No idea what it is about the match engine but so far no adaptation I've tried has worked. Will basically have to end up trying something completely different.

Thanks for letting me know! I was just about to play around with his Total Football adaptations, but I guess there is no point. It seems that game just behaves very differently with this ME. Very dissapointing. I guess I can always go back to playing FM 18 to enjoy his masterpiece tactics, but it's a shame not being able to do it in FM 20. 

 

[Kolarov's missing tooth]

7 minutes ago, Impacto said:

Thanks for letting me know! I was just about to play around with his Total Football adaptations, but I guess there is no point. It seems that game just behaves very differently with this ME. Very dissapointing. I guess I can always go back to playing FM 18 to enjoy his masterpiece tactics, but it's a shame not being able to do it in FM 20. 

 

Wouldn't want to discourage you from trying - it may be I haven't tried something quite simple. I've seen others who look like they've had more success (I think yonko had managed something that worked well). Tbh trying to get decent attacking football is a longstanding issue for me on FM, only managed it a couple of times to my liking. Once was on Fm18, of course!

[Impacto]

Oh no, I am trying it, no worries about that. Just because it won't be the same doesn't mean it can't work and be fun. And who knows, with the right tweaks it might become great. On FM 18 I tried his Pep Guardiola version of peak Barcelona and it never worked. Tweaked a few things and it became amazing. There is always a chance!  

14 minutes ago, Kolarov's missing tooth said:

Tbh trying to get decent attacking football is a longstanding issue for me on FM, only managed it a couple of times to my liking. Once was on Fm18, of course!

That's interesting, it's always been quite easy for me. Most of the time it's at the expense of conceding a lot, but the goalscoring was enough to balance it out. I've played on attacking as long as I remember. This is one of the reasons I like this and most of Ozil's other tactics - they are attacking, but very well balanced and not game breaking. 

[gpassosbh]

I'm tryng to replicate this in FM21, and so far I got this, based on first post:

I did not tested yet, just set the positions and formation. 

What do you guys think I can change?

[zlatanera]

@gpassosbh Well for one, from the opening post - and my vague recollections of the 'Invincibles' - you're pressing far too intensely. I'd leave both untouched for now, as Attacking mentality sets you higher up the pitch and pressing slightly more urgently anyway. 

On 30/05/2016 at 14:56, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

• Without the ball, Arsenal operated a medium-block. They did press, but nowhere near to the extent of Sacchi.
• Arsenal would invite the opposition forward - again, not to the extent of Leicester - and then [counter-attack] quickly.

Counter-Press means you're not inviting the opposition forward, instead you're trying to win the ball back immediately. By all means, an effective instruction but not the best for this replication.

On 30/05/2016 at 14:56, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

• Mixed passing - as with Ajax and Milan, players pick the best option > short/direct bias. If the counter is on, go for it. If it's not, build up

To me, the above means you don't need Counter either. Given the high mentalities across the team due to the team mentality you're already being quite aggressive, if the counter is "on" the AI kicks in and forces it anyway, the instruction is just overkill and may lead to too many turnovers. I personally have mostly played on Attacking mentality for the last three years on both FM18 and 19, and have always found that combination of Attacking + Pass Into Space + Play Out Of Defence is quite good for aesthetically pleasing counter-attacking football anyway. Be More Expressive is unnecessary as well, I've personally found that one is more of a situational option for when you need that extra bit of creativity. 

I would also agree with OP that Lehmann was probably just a G-De, but I've always felt its best just to use the most appropriate role for your specific player so if you have a guy who has a bit of Vision and can distribute the ball well with hands and/or feet, stick to your SK.

Also, thanks for resurrecting this: I'm already thinking of my own version on FM19 with my current Roma squad:

Apologies for the confusion in flipping it, but it suits my squad better: Cengiz Ünder is much superior to Justin Kluivert, whilst Federico Chiesa - as a converted wide forward - is more offensive than Luca Pellegrini. I felt that Focus Play Down The [Right] would be unnecessary as the removal of team shape means that both of my right-sided players have a Very Attacking mentality already. Plus Sandro Tonali in the centre has traits - Likes To Switch Ball To Other Flank, Tries Long Range Passes, Tries Killer Balls Often that should see the ball end up on the right side anyway. Somebody told me that effect has been altered in FM21 though so it might be more appropriate for you. No transitional instructions: I explained my reasoning for not using Counter above, but I also don't set distribution as Play Out Of Defence already tells Lafont to play short passes, and has the centre-backs show for the ball too. Out of possession I opted for a Lower Line Of Engagement as on the standard level it still tells my players to start pressing from the edge of the opposition area, which doesn't allow us much space to counter into.

Role-wise, I've chose a DLP-De to sit deep - can be (and is) instructed to Close Down Less - and spring our counters with Tonali's excellent traits. PIs are pretty much the same as in the OP, except I have added Move Into Channels to Zaniolo as unlike Özil he doesn't have the trait. The Co-St partnership is a holdover from my current main tactic, if I didn't have players who stood out for those roles it would just be ordinary CD-De. I am concerned about just how it will work with my playmakers directly on top of each other. It might see a nice diamond of DLP | IW-Su - CM-Su | AP, or it might just make us completely 'route one' by telling Tonali to pass it in a straight line down the pitch.

[zlatanera]

Marzo 2024

• In the return leg against Man City I set out in our standard 4-3-3 and we quickly asserted our dominance...statistically, at least. Poor finishing and chance creation left us vulnerable and two Raheem Sterling-leg (and scored) counter-attacks looked to have us going out. At half time I brought out the trusty Jardim 4-4-2, gambling that turning the game into an end-to-end slug-fest would bring us back into it...I didn't expect us to turn it around quite that fast though! Ünder's 2nd goal and Kluivert's (our 3rd) were a mere 42 seconds apart as we just blew them away - an incredible comeback!
• Inter played like a team transformed since Diego Simeone took over, van Maanen's goal coming from a free kick.
• The win against Empoli saw us seal the title with 9 games - and 2 months - remaining!

[bigman]

Hi guys this is very interesting to me as a gooner. I play as arsenal in a 433 with our squad but I think the following would replicate arsenal at their attacking peak 

 

............af attack...dlf support

if Support...........

.................B2b......cm def.....rw att

lwb attack...cb stopper..bpd defend..fb defend

...................keeper defend

 

campbell was obviously the more aggressive fb and you’re was a decent passer but also covered the space wel and could link with midfield so I guess he could be set to cover to make an old school pairing

 

arsenal didn’t play in a press, as mentioned but vieira obviously was tracking f aggressively when he could and silva was the screen

 

it was kind of an asemetric formation with pires coming inside and Cole overlapping so in a sense, an early 4231 with ljungberg potentially an inverted winger on the other side when you want to be more attacking?

 

definitely

mixed passing and max counter attacking, I definitely would like to look into this more in fm21 when the full game is released as the beta is a bit ‘funny’ to me as certain ai tactics seem op 

[llama3]

Pires was more of an Inverted Winger - he started wide, did most of his build up there, but came inside late in the move around the box. He rarely for example made direct runs in behind in the way that Henry for example did. Ljungberg's role is really hard to pick out, was a bit of a winger, a bit of a playmaker, bit of a wide midfielder and a bit of a raumdeuter at times. Certainly right side was more "solid", but still plenty of late overlaps from Lauren, and late central runs from Ljungberg.

[bigman]

That’s a good point. Wenger seemed to employ more of a solid right side for some reason? Maybe it was just the players at his disposal? Pires was a really free role I guess so it would be hard to choose a fm role. A bit like it is for grealish nowadays

 

you can also argue bergkamp was a dlf or actually played in the hole as an amc that attacked and created in an a symmetric 4231 

 

either way it was brilliant to watch, just not successful in Europe 

[Impacto]

I advise you to use the WM role for the right midfielder with a right footed player(Ljungberg ). It was absolutely insane in FM 18, players playing there were constantly the best out of the bunch with getting insane amounts of goals and assits. That was still true for FM 20(at least from my limited testing). The whole concept didn't work the same in FM 20, but that role was still great. I have sneaky feeling that it will still be really good in FM 21, so if anybody wanna try the WM, please let us know how it plays. 

[felix_klaus]

First of all, tons of credits Özil-to-the-Arsenal for all of your work put into your threads!
Belongside some others on this forum, you have been  a great teacher as well as an inspiration to me.

About me - I played the FM15 until last year, it has been my first version of the game. Last year my wife gifted me the 2020 version of FM and I fell in love again. But besides having success on my long-term BVB save, it didn't feel like my tactic was good. The football was "posession w/o intent". Boring. Furthermore I didn't feel like getting the most out of my players because of the tactic. Long story short - found this part of the forum and started reading a ton. Signed up in a forum the only time in years, just for this reply here btw. ;-)

You got me here because you couldn't find a solution to translate your Invincibles into FM20 (or any version w/o the team shape instruction). As I wanted to play that style I kept trying and have found a solution, which nearly hits every individual mentality you've been wishing, with only the CM-S getting "balanced" instead of "positive". Given that it is just the mentality of a single player, which could be influenced which PPM's, I'd say I got it translated

- I flipped the sides, as it suited my squad way better 

- left winger right footed (and PI's), right winger right-footed

- CF right-footed and with attack duty - attacking individual mentality in a balanced team mentality

- the only neccesary difference in terms of players individual mentalities lies in the CM-S, who is balanced, not positive

- I changed my keepers role to SK-S, mainly to better my build-up against pressing teams

- Overlap left, for positive mentality of both players

- be more expressive and higher tempo as I am on balanced team mentality opposed to attacking team mentality - this gives me fast (counter-) attacking, but still can go a controlled builkd-up route and beat deep defesive teams

- close down more urgent as my BVB got the team with the highest reputation by this season, to avoid ultra defensive sides endlessly passing 

Btw. I am reffering to this, when I talk about your desired individual player mentalities.

  Attacking
                        Attacking
Attacking    Positive   Defensive   Positive
Attacking   Defensive   Defensive   Positive
                 Attacking

I am mostly short on time, so I may edit this post from time to time to show some our successes as well as some of the players and/or ingame-footage (CL-Final vs. PSG for example ;)) I am pretty happy for every single reply, as I have been when I saw this thread still beeing alive as well as Özil-to-the-Arsenal still visiting this forum.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by felix_klaus

[Impacto]

Hey @felix_klaus, awesome stuff! I would love to see some more info about replication when you get the chance. How many goals do you score per season? What about conceding? What position is performing best, what are the goals & assists ratio for them? 

In FM 18 the WM was the absolute superstar, regardless of teams and players. Whoever played there was scoring insane amounts of goals and assits, with the CF and WP following closely.

On FM 20 I never managed to replicate it, it was still successful to an extend, but it didn't play or flow the same, it was more of a defensively sound structure with goals coming from the wing back, set pieces and the odd long shot from the CMs & WP. Still, I've had some moments where the WM again was going crazy, but it wasn't as sustainable as on FM 18. 

I would love to read some more about this!