Issues with my 4-4-2/4-4-1-1.

[Andre2807]

Issues with my 4-4-2.

Hi guys I'm having some trouble to create decent goalscoring opportunities.

Unfortunately, I can't provide screenshots, hopefully my nonsensical babble below will make sense:

Context: I'm doing a Journeyman save, hopefully kicking off my FM career with a bang.

Took over a Russian lower league club two games into the new season. Expectation, lower mid table - avoid relegation.

After playing a 4-4-1-1 for two games, which I won 1-0 (a cup game) and a draw in the league (1-1), I was about to face a team 3rd in the league. I was the underdog in the match, and played a 4-4-2.

I started the match with a defensive mentality.

I lost 2-0. My opponent had a VERY good right winger/full back who gave the team a lead late in the first half with a perfect throughball after beating my full back with dribble. Later in the match I changed my left FB to Defend duty.

The tactic:

Highly Structured - I want my team to keep shape at all times, but join the attack when it's save to do so.

Standard - The starting point. As the match progress I attempt to change from standard to Counter/Control/Attack

Team Instructions:

Shorter Passing

Play out of defense

Lower tempo

In the bid to bring in a particular style of play, I attempt to teach my teams to play patient possession football. I don't want to give them too many TI's however.

Roles and player instructions:

GK(D) - Roll it out, less risky passes

LB FB(A) - Cross from byline

CD(D) - None

CD(D) - None

RB FB(S) - None

LCM CM(S) - None

RCM DLP(D) - None

LM WM(S) - None

RM WM(A) - Cut inside

Left ST AF(A) - None

Right ST DLF(S) - None

In the 4-4-1-1, I use an SS(A) and F9(S) with the exact same setup above.

My biggest issue during the match was that:

1) the strikers kept on being caught offside.

2) Lack of midfield support though the centre of the pitch further up the field.

3) None of my crosses from the left side hit the target. 0/14 crosses completed.

It also feels that I didn't have sting in my attack and comparing the previous two games (1 win, 1 draw) I did manage to maintain a decent possession rating and have some threat on goal.

I think my opponents played with a high line and a higher press, as I didn't manage to keep possession and being caught offside a number of times.

1) What can I do to increase the sting of my 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1

2) When facing opponents with a high d-line and stronger opposition, which mentality performs better? I started the match with a defensive mentality

3) Is there anything from the above that may highlight other issues in my tactic that I might not be aware of?

On the positive side, with the 4-4-1-1, the SS gets good service from being in a deeper position and does have some sting when on the ball.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

[summatsupeer]

Playing a possession style is fine, but where do you expect your goals to come from? What is your main source of creating the chances and what type of chances?

Your playing Very Structured = very low creative freedom.

Your TI's will mean the opponents will get organized defensively more often than not so you need to break them down.

You have one playmaker (who gets extra creative freedom) to provide something different, but its a DLP-D.

Changing mentality will change your passing patterns and style of play, it will also make it harder to analyse. I think if you want to use different mentalities it needs different tactics.

To answer your points about that match:

1) Player attributes will play a big part in them being caught offside.

2) 442 isn't known for its central support, you will lack a man centrally compared to other formations.

3) What type of crosses are your forwards good at getting on the end of? Are they short and quick?

To answer your tactical questions:

1) Consider a Wide Playmaker to give something different. He will also play more centrally, WP-A should play in the hole. Depends if you have a suitable player. If you don't then consider pulling your DLF-S back to AMCR and play as a AP if you have someone suitable for that.

Alternatively change your Very Structured to give your team more creative freedom. This should also give a bit more support for your forwards as they will be less attacking so closer to the midfield.

2) If they play high then there will be space to attack behind them to exploit, but it takes more than just the mentality to do that. You could create a counter attack tactic, but that goes against your possession style.

3) Your mixing playing a specific style of football and being pragmatic to just counter your opponents. I think you need to decide what you want to do as both won't work.

[Andre2807]

Whilst I was typing my reply, I realised my mistakes in my thinking. It's actually extremely one dimentional. In the 4-4-1-1 I expect the SS(A) to get most goals, and with the 4-4-2, I'm hoping that the AF(A) will get on the end of some.

What do you mean by: Your mixing playing a specific style of football and being pragmatic to just counter your opponents. I think you need to decide what you want to do as both won't work?

I would like to play a type of football to which later, I can build a better team to play a more fluid style football, which is beautiful to watch.

I'm a huge fan of Johan Cruyff's ideas and read some articles, but frankly, because my current squad is top heavy (lots of players are versatile to cover CM/AM/ST and wide midfield positions) but very thin at the back. Two mediocre goalkeepers and only 5 defends to choose from across all defender positions.

My long term idea is to build a squad that is technically able enough to play fluid possession football similar to that of what sparked Ozil's brilliant 3-4-3 (very fluid) system. The difficulty though, is trying to do so (literally) from the ground up.

They say "keep things simple" with LLM sides and that's what I'm trying to do...

I assumed that if I decide to play conservatively at first, my squad will become used to passing the ball around and possibly carve out a number of 1-0 wins and grind through boring 0-0 draws.

That type of football bores me to death though.

[summatsupeer]

What do you mean by: Your mixing playing a specific style of football and being pragmatic to just counter your opponents. I think you need to decide what you want to do as both won't work?

Being pragmatic is like Athletic Madrid, one game they will press high and play fast, others they will sit deep and counter attack, they adapt to there opponents with different tactic Other teams, stick to there style every game beyond a few tweaks of the system, the most obvious being Barcelona.

You've set out your formation, roles, duties and instructions, to fit your "possession" style. You then state you change your team mentality depending on your opponent / through the game. Changing mentality will affect so many things I don't think its effective to do without modifying the other parts of the system. Hence it seems like your trying to be pragmatic like Athletic Madrid without fully committing to the system change because you want to keep your style.

I have a tactic very like Ozils, it was doing badly on Control, but when I switched to Standard its starting working great, any other mentality and it just doesn't work. If I need to change my plan then i'll do so to another tactic developed for that mentality.

Keeping things simple is fine, but I think changing mentality makes it harder to develop and improve your tactic.

[Rashidi]

Actually you can use the same "tactic" say a 442 and play it with different shapes and mentalities. I do it all the time with a 442 which happens to be the best system to do that with.

The challenge to do that is understanding what happens when you change mentality and shape. He has a limiting TI that is hamstringing this and it is the Lower Tempo shout and any team shout that locks down passing to shout.

When the shouts were made these were done to allow people to do precisely what the OP is trying to achieve. Unfortunately he is getting himself muddled.

Like summat had mentioned, you always need to ask yourself where and how the goals are going to come. That means also picking the perfect players for your support and attack duties.

When changing shapes your transitions are important. Looking at your system you need to ask yourself.

1. Are my players good enough to depend on that WM on attack? He will cut inside when he has the ball. Are there enough players good enough around him to help pivot the attack?

2. When making mentality changes I usually make some shout changes to encourage the style I want.

When you play counter/fluid you are

Sitting back compact and waiting. Can be bad if your technicals are poor. When you are counter/structured some players are sitting back and a handful are told to break early during transitions. Are your A duties capable of doing that?

It's all about the right attributes and knowing how they impact transitions. In a game I just played I started with attacking/fluid with some shouts took a 2 goal lead, then switched to counter/structured and scored 4 more.

That won't happen all the time with every tactic, but if you want it to happen most of the time, you need to make sure you have chosen a system with the right players playing the right duties for that to happen.

It's the simplest way of playing but it demands the most knowledge of the principles of the game.

[Andre2807]

It's the simplest way of playing but it demands the most knowledge of the principles of the game.

In a bid of doing so, I have finally decided to learn more about the theory of developing a system and building the squad and players around that system. In doing so, I need to understand that if I aim to play a system based upon possession and fluidity, I need to understand that without creating, Mobility, Width and Improvisation on or off the ball, I won't be scoring many goals or even know where goals will come from.

Not only that, but I need to look at my squad to see which players has the attributes to fit the mould of that kind of football.

I hope that my study of football systems and finding the right players will aid me in a way which will help me create the type of football I would love to see from the clubs I manage.