Closing Down More/Much More PI and TI

[Special_One]

After lurking a bit and reading threads on pressing and the very fluid philosophy - particularly Ozil to the Arsenals Cruyff and Sacchi discussions (many thanks) I've been inspired to start a save using the principles of high pressing and very fluid football.

So that brings me onto a few experiments in a throwaway save to determine a 'base' set of TIs that I would use. I want to use a number of different systems but incorporate the same style into each - settled on a 433 as for me this is the most natural pressing shape and then maybe a 3 at the back variation and possibly a 4411/442 or 4411 with offset AMC and STC.

I stumbled upon a grey area though and would like a bit of help! So I went to press intensively and this would lend itself to Close Down Much More right? But worried this would be overkill as a TI, I thought about using Close Down More and then enhancing groups of players pressing instructions via PI to create 'waves of pressure' ie front 3 pressing heavily whilst other players cut off passing lanes instead of joining the extremely high press. Wrong. With Close Down More set I cannot increase the closing down of my front 3, only decrease it. But there's a way around it if I temporarily select the TI Close Down Much Less, put the PI Close Down Much More on my ST, AML and AMR then switch the TI back to Close Down More. So my question is, with this PI set will they close down more than they would without it or is it pointless? Haven't played enough test matches to notice but early impressions suggest my front 3 are indeed more active in their pressing. But now I feel guilty as it's a workaround or semi illegal in the instructions? Just want a pointer of what is going to be more effective - Close Down Much More as a TI and no PIs or Close Down More with PIs to close down even more (if that makes sense).

Another question is that amongst 3 shapes do you think it is possible to play with the same TIs or do some shapes require small tweaks to cover weaknesses. The 433 for example is a more natural pressing shape and it might be easier to Close Down Much More, but a 343 and 442 might have players dragged too far out of position and might lean towards Close Down More instead. Or am I overthinking? Will it make a difference? With only 2 central midfielders I'm thinking about adding Use Tighter Marking to the 442 so we are more compact and keep tighter to players that move into spaces that could be weaknesses (between the lines). And Pass Into Space is one that I think would benefit the 442 as I will most likely decide on an AF as one of the STC roles. But could also be an option in the 433 to release both IFs who I have at the moment on Attack duty.

Hope it's not a load of waffle! Thanks in advance.

[herne79]

There is only so much pressing you can set, there is a limit.

So for example if you have chosen a mentality that sets a lot of pressing by default (say Attacking) and then add in a TI to increase closing down, it would be quite right to not be able to set any PIs to increase closing down as you would already be at the maximum.

If you think you've found a work around to set the TI, all you've really found is a little graphical glitch in the UI .

With regards your other question, some formations do lend themselves to be better shapes for natural pressing than others. Just remember that if you use an aggressive mentality that sets much pressing by default and/or the TI to increase pressing, it will affect all players on your team - which you may not want. Having central defenders with lots of closing down and nobody in the DM position (for example) can drag your CDs out of position at dangerous times.

[Special_One]

There is only so much pressing you can set, there is a limit.

So for example if you have chosen a mentality that sets a lot of pressing by default (say Attacking) and then add in a TI to increase closing down, it would be quite right to not be able to set any PIs to increase closing down as you would already be at the maximum.

If you think you've found a work around to set the TI, all you've really found is a little graphical glitch in the UI .

With regards your other question, some formations do lend themselves to be better shapes for natural pressing than others. Just remember that if you use an aggressive mentality that sets much pressing by default and/or the TI to increase pressing, it will affect all players on your team - which you may not want. Having central defenders with lots of closing down and nobody in the DM position (for example) can drag your CDs out of position at dangerous times.

Thanks for the clearing that up so I assume the little workaround won't actually make a difference and the AML and AMR (in this case) will press the exact same on attack duty with a TI of close down more and no PI as they would with the PI of close down much more (which usually isn't available)? That makes sense I guess and probably will lean towards close down much more as I want the absolute maximum.

Your second point is interesting - I do want to press intensely but at the same time the behaviour of my CBs worries me. With a TI of close down much more would it be wise to give my CBs the PI of close down less or even close down much less? A DLPd in a 433 should negate them coming out of position but then in a 442 or 4312 they would be exposed. It's difficult to find a balance and I guess I will have to test and look closely at the CBs because I want Close Down Much More as a TI on all systems if possible - that's one of my key principles.

[pedrosantos]

And also has to be considered, starting from what herne said about Mentality and closing down being set to maximum, then it would make sense PI being set to Sometimes (equal to the team) and not to close down less. So, it might work setting closing down TI to sometimes and then fine-tunning it in PI.