fullback delays crossing until he is closed down

[dngrs]

how do you deal with that?

a middle player has the ball, my fullback sees open space on the side of the box, runs, gets a through ball pass and then he wastes time until he is closed down and cross is blocked

[Guest]

What are his attributes, role & PIs? Also what TI's have you set?

[Blue 4 Life]

Regularly happens with me as well because I play short passing and retain possession. When switching my passing to mixed, the full back crosses more often. It's pathetic your full back can't cross immediately when in space though, playing short passing retaining possession shouldn't have any impact on your full back crossing when there is an opportunity. Another bug which will hopefully be fixed in the next patch.

[herne79]

Regularly happens with me as well because I play short passing and retain possession. When switching my passing to mixed, the full back crosses more often. It's pathetic your full back can't cross immediately when in space though, playing short passing retaining possession shouldn't have any impact on your full back crossing when there is an opportunity. Another bug which will hopefully be fixed in the next patch.

What bug? By using Shorter Passing you've told all of your players, including your fullback, to lower the tempo (ie., dwell on the ball) and pass the ball less far.

On top of that, you then tell all of your players (including your fullback) to pass the ball shorter again and take less risks.

@OP - it sounds like a tempo issue to me (guess), but without seeing your detailed tactical set up it's impossible to be sure.

[Beren]

I agree with herne, I've seen that if you give instruction to your full backs to cross more often and if you have higher tempo and of course first time crosses for your team set, the full backs will cross the ball every now and then and without thinking too much or dwelling on the ball.

Problem is if you don't have anyone who can reach the ball once it gets crossed in the box, but that's a completely different matter.

[Guest]

Regularly happens with me as well because I play short passing and retain possession. When switching my passing to mixed, the full back crosses more often. It's pathetic your full back can't cross immediately when in space though, playing short passing retaining possession shouldn't have any impact on your full back crossing when there is an opportunity. Another bug which will hopefully be fixed in the next patch.

An alternative is to use your mixed passing system with PI's to change the passing & possession instructions of the players you want to control the play.

[summatsupeer]

Remember you might not be seeing exactly what is happening. The ball might be in a bad position to cross, especially if the player lacks technique. He might be waiting for a better option and due to his mental attributes waits to long or doesn't see a better option that matches his instructions.

Too many variables without more information.

[Blue 4 Life]

What bug? By using Shorter Passing you've told all of your players, including your fullback, to lower the tempo (ie., dwell on the ball) and pass the ball less far.

On top of that, you then tell all of your players (including your fullback) to pass the ball shorter again and take less risks.

@OP - it sounds like a tempo issue to me (guess), but without seeing your detailed tactical set up it's impossible to be sure.

The bug is my full backs have above average decision making and vision. If they are in space out wide in real life and the striker is open in the middle with a great chance of scoring, the full back is going to cross it.

Even full backs and wingers in the most possession hungry teams like Spain for example will cross when there is a good opportunity. Most of the default PI's of the full back roles on FM instruct the full backs to cross anyway.

The full back standing still and waiting to be closed down is a bug. It would simply never happen in real life. Imagine watching a real life game of the full back standing still waiting to be closed down before doing something. Imagine the abuse he would get from the crowd. It would simply never happen, even if the manager instructed him to retain possession and pass it short. It's totally unrealistic.

[Guest]

Imagine watching a game where that happens & the manager does not make changes to encourage his fullbacks to take the crossing opportunities presented to them, a few of us have already mentioned ways that a manager can use the tactical interface to instruct players to focus their play in a style that more closely matches what they want to see.

[Kenco]

The bug is my full backs have above average decision making and vision. If they are in space out wide in real life and the striker is open in the middle with a great chance of scoring, the full back is going to cross it.

Even full backs and wingers in the most possession hungry teams like Spain for example will cross when there is a good opportunity. Most of the default PI's of the full back roles on FM instruct the full backs to cross anyway.

The full back standing still and waiting to be closed down is a bug. It would simply never happen in real life. Imagine watching a real life game of the full back standing still waiting to be closed down before doing something. Imagine the abuse he would get from the crowd. It would simply never happen, even if the manager instructed him to retain possession and pass it short. It's totally unrealistic.

If your players have good decision making then why give them specific instructions? Leave it on mixed and let them decide what to do.

[yau]

what is unrealistic? listening to coach instructions? rly? go very fluid then they will not listening to your instructions to clutched. Also, great decision making and great vision does not mean your fullback can make a great cross. Its mean they are creative and fast decision making - same as me, but im still lacking of technical ability to do what my head told me I should do.

I'm pretty sure you marked 'Work ball into box' (or at least 'retain possesion') which among others means 'do not cross the ball'.

[cantrill4]

Regularly happens with me as well because I play short passing and retain possession. When switching my passing to mixed, the full back crosses more often. It's pathetic your full back can't cross immediately when in space though, playing short passing retaining possession shouldn't have any impact on your full back crossing when there is an opportunity. Another bug which will hopefully be fixed in the next patch.

I agree. Players sometimes act like robots who must do as instructed at all times. Sometimes, a little common sense is needed. For example, if you have instructed your team to play really deep and the ball is just over halfway but no opposition player is near it and your centre half is the closest, he won't go to it at all as he's been instructed to play deep and this is too far up the field. Just get the ball and pass it on.....

[Blue 4 Life]

what is unrealistic? listening to coach instructions? rly? go very fluid then they will not listening to your instructions to clutched. Also, great decision making and great vision does not mean your fullback can make a great cross. Its mean they are creative and fast decision making - same as me, but im still lacking of technical ability to do what my head told me I should do.

I'm pretty sure you marked 'Work ball into box' (or at least 'retain possesion') which among others means 'do not cross the ball'.

A full back in acres of space refusing to attempt to cross a ball until he is closed down is unrealistic.

My team instructions are short passing/retain possession. My full backs are set to a normal full back/support duty with no additional PPI's. I do not have 'work ball into box' selected.

A team being instructed to retain possession should not mean the full backs refuse to cross when they are in acres of space and there is a good chance to set up a goal. I would understand if there were no attacking players in the box, but multiple times my full back waits until he's closed down, then cuts back inside before crossing which easily gets defended as by that time, the opposition has reorganised and got everyone back to defend!

I play a winger in front of my full back and my winger runs down the wing and crosses often. The winger has default PPI's which can't be selected for the full back, so the full back isn't able to overlap and put in a quick cross like the winger. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get our full backs to overlap and cross while playing under short passing/retain possession instructions.

[Rashidi]

I agree. Players sometimes act like robots who must do as instructed at all times. Sometimes, a little common sense is needed. For example, if you have instructed your team to play really deep and the ball is just over halfway but no opposition player is near it and your centre half is the closest, he won't go to it at all as he's been instructed to play deep and this is too far up the field. Just get the ball and pass it on.....

Don't complain if your combination of bad shouts leads to poor on field choices. There is plenty of information on the forums that explains how one should use shouts. Go dig it up. If your fullbacks are not crossing, then there have to be reasons why. If the AI can cross and find targets and you can't, then its obviously the choices you have made that impacted your backs.

There are a lot of better ways of getting high percentage possession, my latest video shows me using a 4231 playing defensively and generating 60% possession without using Retain Possession. Sometimes I want my fullbacks to get closed down on the flanks to free up space, sometimes I want my fullbacks to launch an early cross to my centre forward. There is a way to do one, or the other or both. I wish managers would exercise some common sense too when they make tactics. There is a decision making attribute in the game...USE IT;.

[Mad Fortune]

Been there done that.

If the fullback is for example "right only" footed. When he has space to cross with his better foot, he doesn't do that. Instead he desperately dwells on the ball and hoofs it straight to the opponent players with his WEAKER foot. Happens all the time.

[cantrill4]

Don't complain if your combination of bad shouts leads to poor on field choices. There is plenty of information on the forums that explains how one should use shouts. Go dig it up. If your fullbacks are not crossing, then there have to be reasons why. If the AI can cross and find targets and you can't, then its obviously the choices you have made that impacted your backs.

There are a lot of better ways of getting high percentage possession, my latest video shows me using a 4231 playing defensively and generating 60% possession without using Retain Possession. Sometimes I want my fullbacks to get closed down on the flanks to free up space, sometimes I want my fullbacks to launch an early cross to my centre forward. There is a way to do one, or the other or both. I wish managers would exercise some common sense too when they make tactics. There is a decision making attribute in the game...USE IT;.

Eh? I'm not talking about full backs

[Guest]

A full back in acres of space refusing to attempt to cross a ball until he is closed down is unrealistic.

My team instructions are short passing/retain possession. My full backs are set to a normal full back/support duty with no additional PPI's. I do not have 'work ball into box' selected.

A team being instructed to retain possession should not mean the full backs refuse to cross when they are in acres of space and there is a good chance to set up a goal. I would understand if there were no attacking players in the box, but multiple times my full back waits until he's closed down, then cuts back inside before crossing which easily gets defended as by that time, the opposition has reorganised and got everyone back to defend!

I play a winger in front of my full back and my winger runs down the wing and crosses often. The winger has default PPI's which can't be selected for the full back, so the full back isn't able to overlap and put in a quick cross like the winger. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get our full backs to overlap and cross while playing under short passing/retain possession instructions.

What role have you set & what have you done tactically in an attempt to change that behaviour? I come up against plenty of AI managed sides who have very cross heavy based styles by making use of players overlapping from the fullback position so what you want is possible.

[herne79]

There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get our full backs to overlap and cross while playing under short passing/retain possession instructions.

Correct, there is no reason why you can't to get your fullbacks to do that. Your tactical settings are preventing them from doing it - all you need to do is change them. Barside summed it up perfectly:

Imagine watching a game where that happens & the manager does not make changes to encourage his fullbacks to take the crossing opportunities presented to them, a few of us have already mentioned ways that a manager can use the tactical interface to instruct players to focus their play in a style that more closely matches what they want to see.

[Blue 4 Life]

What role have you set & what have you done tactically in an attempt to change that behaviour? I come up against plenty of AI managed sides who have very cross heavy based styles by making use of players overlapping from the fullback position so what you want is possible.

My full backs are just on a basic full back/support instructions and the only PPI I have added is 'Stay Wider'. I also tried instructing them to cross the ball from deep, but under short passing/retain possession instructions, that didn't really make any difference.

It's only when I switch to 'medium' passing (which is usually only when I throw on an extra striker and go more direct to chase the game), the full backs cross when I feel they should, but medium passing means my team generally plays more direct passes resulting in more change overs of possession, which I don't want.

I'm wondering if it's possible for your full backs to cross sooner while your team is playing under shorter passing/retain possession instructions?

[yau]

yes, I play with sorter passing and my wide defenders making insane amount of crossing every game. They did it even when I play with retain possesion shout. You can check it in TheJanitors topic.

[Guest]

My full backs are just on a basic full back/support instructions and the only PPI I have added is 'Stay Wider'. I also tried instructing them to cross the ball from deep, but under short passing/retain possession instructions, that didn't really make any difference.

It's only when I switch to 'medium' passing (which is usually only when I throw on an extra striker and go more direct to chase the game), the full backs cross when I feel they should, but medium passing means my team generally plays more direct passes resulting in more change overs of possession, which I don't want.

I'm wondering if it's possible for your full backs to cross sooner while your team is playing under shorter passing/retain possession instructions?

Personally I feel that the solution to your situation is as I posted right at the start of this thread;

​

An alternative is to use your mixed passing system with PI's to change the passing & possession instructions of the players you want to control the play.

[HUNT3R]

Or the other way around and increase the passing for the fullbacks.

[Guest]

Indeed, of course the best option could for for Blue 4 Life to go with their mixed passing system, especially if it gets better results.

[herne79]

@ Blue 4 Life - Or it could be some other tactical setting but we don't know your detailed set up. If you need help please create your own thread and post your full detailed set up.

@ OP - Apologies for your thread being hijacked and hopefully you didn't miss my post #4 in amongst all of this.

[Blue 4 Life]

yes, I play with sorter passing and my wide defenders making insane amount of crossing every game. They did it even when I play with retain possesion shout. You can check it in TheJanitors topic.

Thanks for the link, you're right our team instructions are similar, but you play with complete wing backs which is why they are crossing more. I only use my full backs on support duty. I suppose I could try switching them to complete wing backs like you and hope it doesn't make me too defensively exposed.

[HUNT3R]

Thanks for the link, you're right our team instructions are similar, but you play with complete wing backs which is why they are crossing more. I only use my full backs on support duty. I suppose I could try switching them to complete wing backs like you and hope it doesn't make me too defensively exposed.

CWB's cross more often whereas FB/S roles don't by default. May be something in that.

[yau]

indeed. If you switch them to cwb it will make you too exposed for sure. Try to just add PI "cross more often" to your FB(S) like HUNT3R notice.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

One other thing is even if they get plenty of space they may be delaying because the bodies in the box are marked.

My own wingbacks have no problems at all putting a good cross in, usually for a nice easy goal, *if* and only *if* I get them 1/4 of that pitch free of defenders. When there are defenders there it's 50/50 as to whether they will get beyond them for a cross unless they outmatch them one on one. One thing I do want to see more of in the next iterations is fullbacks skipping by a defender and instantly crossing it, particularly on attack duties, because I feel they're too inclined to push on to to the end of the line, allowing a defender to recover the ground.

That said, I think fullbacks/wingbacks on support duty seem much more balanced in terms of the variety of what they do than ones on attack duty, but that's my own personal view. :X

[thomit]

For those wanting more common sense in the m.e.; that sort of thing does not exist. There's no common sense in the m.e., the players have no brains to make common sense with. Everything that happens in the m.e. happens as a result of coded triggered events. Sometimes that leads to behaviour that is not common sense. And that is the state of the AI as it exists in any games today. The technology simply isn't there yet, perhaps never. All that the m.e. people at SI can do, is to make the right coded triggers so that the m.e. appears to be as "common sense" as possible. Sometimes that is very, very difficult to acheive. And specially difficult to acheive without severe knock-on effects in areas of the m.e. that didn't need fixing, but is now screwed up because they fixed a "common sense" issue somewhere else. If they try to fix the issue with full backs not crossing quickly to a striker that is in a very good position to receive it, despite any tactical instructions that tells them not to - well, I'm sure they could fix it, but probably not without it having severe negative implications for the full backs behaviour in other situations or other areas of the pitch. Fixing one issue could easily lead to creating another.

There are loads of "common sense" issues all over the pitch, all of the time. You don't need to look very hard for them.

Some times you just have to live with it, and hope that some day the common sense issue you are concerned with will get fixed. It is most likely a sloooow process though.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

For those wanting more common sense in the m.e.; that sort of thing does not exist. There's no common sense in the m.e., the players have no brains to make common sense with. Everything that happens in the m.e. happens as a result of coded triggered events. Sometimes that leads to behaviour that is not common sense. And that is the state of the AI as it exists in any games today. The technology simply isn't there yet, perhaps never. All that the m.e. people at SI can do, is to make the right coded triggers so that the m.e. appears to be as "common sense" as possible. Sometimes that is very, very difficult to acheive. And specially difficult to acheive without severe knock-on effects in areas of the m.e. that didn't need fixing, but is now screwed up because they fixed a "common sense" issue somewhere else. If they try to fix the issue with full backs not crossing quickly to a striker that is in a very good position to receive it, despite any tactical instructions that tells them not to - well, I'm sure they could fix it, but probably not without it having severe negative implications for the full backs behaviour in other situations or other areas of the pitch. Fixing one issue could easily lead to creating another.

There are loads of "common sense" issues all over the pitch, all of the time. You don't need to look very hard for them.

Some times you just have to live with it, and hope that some day the common sense issue you are concerned with will get fixed. It is most likely a sloooow process though.

My favourite one is players close to the ball just standing there waiting for someone halfway across the pitch to collect the ball first. =x

[Marassi]

As several others have said, there are several potential fixes to this problem, outside of totally changing the style of play you're trying for. Start with the instructions for the full backs. Set them to cross more often if possible, if that doesn't work then change their individual passing to mixed. I'd expect that to change the problem, but if not, there are way to play possession football without choosing retain possession, shorter passing, work ball into box, or anything else that might be making your full backs more reluctant to put the ball in