[Suggestions+Discussion] Game events and varying parameters

[godzilu]

Greetings

The way things are, the atmosphere of the game, including the life of the manager, is rather dull and linear, it's like we are in matrix, football moves through a frozen world. A lot of parameters of the game are static, so if one plays 40 years as a manager, countries will still be defined by the same things, as well as the life of the player/manager. 

First I want to say that these events should be activated or not at the start of a game, maybe some people like a static world, so they don't want events. Realistically the world evolves at a bigger and bigger speed, exponentially. Economies change, football changes, players quality change. So, beside the social side of the problem, I would like to see more or less random events that affect the life of the manager during a life of football management. 

1. Youth rating - changed to dynamic, based on the previous year youth rating, club youth setups, club scouting setups, existence of u21, u18, u19 club teams, game importance, economic factor, country size, success of the national team, success of national clubs, success of the country players, tradition, etc. Recalculated once a year.

• previous youth rating - it can't radically change from one year to another
• average club youth setups - the best training facilities a country has, the best players can get
• average club scouting setups - the better the scouting setup is, more chances for the youth players to be found
• average u21, u19, u18 club teams - countries who have these leagues offer more chances to their youth players
• game importance - well, the better the game is known in a country, the better chance for young lads and lassies to get involved with football
• development and economic factors - small influence, but this anyway should affect club youth setups, scouting setups, etc, so indirectly it affects the youth rating a lot
• country size - this should work hand in hand with game importance. A country with 100 million people with a game importance of 20 should have more good youth players than a country with 10 million people with a game importance of 20, and all the other stats equal
• national team success - well, it's obvious that if a team wins the world cup, the next year all people in that country thinks about football more than the previous year
• national clubs success - something like the previous
• players success - legendary players always attract youth players, who all want to be the next Messi, next Ronaldo, next Gica Hagi  , moreover if they are from the same country
• tradition - a country with legendary retired players,the more recently retired should attract more young players in the game. With a smaller impact though. Young players don't know too many things about Eusebio or Ferencz Puskas or how you spell it. 
• Etc, etc, etc. Other factors I am missing.

2. Game importance - dynamic, recalculated each year. Based on previous year game importance rating, national team success, club teams success, players success, marketing random events - likely to happen only in countries with strong economies. 

• successful national team, club teams, and players expose the football game more.
• marketing random events - rich countries can get a random event where a strong marketing of the game is put in place, as it happened in China, USA, Russia, etc. 
• Etc, etc, etc. Other factors I am missing.

3. Development and Economic Factor - dynamic parameters, based on random events, less likely to change, more likely to change positively, very less likely to change negatively. The thing is pretty simple. Since there is no world war 3 in the game to ruin everything, the economies are very likely to improve as time passes by everywhere, the European Union for example is dragging the smaller countries and forcing them to grow. So, unless you input an event where a world war takes place, or EU falls down, or China attacks USA, or South Africa attacks Libya, etc, the economic factor should be on a positive trend. Compare how things were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, everywhere, and you will see what I mean. Things have always improved, bar the global wars, and expectations grew up with them. 

Football Manager is about managing years along, not 2, 3 years then quitting. As it is now, it's like a manager trains in a frozen world. I want to see events like Chinese teams buying players with 50 million, Russian teams buying expensive players, USA attracting players, etc, appear in the game too. It's not like I wake up in 40 years and the things roll up the same. 

A long term save needs the thrill of real life, with things that affect your life but you cannot predict. Life is not linear for a football manager. 

4. Events that affect the manager

• Player related events
  • Every time I trained Balotelli I never had a problem with him. In real life, this type of players had problems in every place they played. Create events related to this type of characters, but not only, like player X turned up drunk, pX set the bin on fire, pX insulted the fitness coach, pX refuses to train, etc. Player X father died, player y mother had an accident, player Z was caught getting out of the casino at 6 am in the morning in a training day. Events that require your intervention or not, that affects the other players and club negatively, not only because of the morale, but because of fines, negative press, etc.
  • Positive player events: like pX did a prank in the last training session, everybody had a good time. Player Y became a father, player Z is getting maried, etc.
  • It's like we are machines and we train machines with binary personalities.
  • This is a long chapter, easy to implement though. Measures that raise morale, drop morale, attract fines from the FA, attract media interest, media blaming, etc. Events that do that.
  • It's not hard to create 1 thousand events, so they don't look linear to a player, even if many of them have similar effects. The thrill of the game matters. I want after 10 years in management to get an event that never happened to me before. And I am not speaking about you have reached 10 years of management lol. After 20 the same. After 30 still the same, don't make me read the same lines for ever because the life of a manager is not a temporal loop.
• Manager related events
  • This game says that I have good relations with manager X. Oh really? Another binary relationship. Let's hold hands. For the God's sake, at least make me receive emails from my so called good relations, and allow me to reply or send predefined emails. Allow me to buy wine so I can share with the managers I am in good relations.
  • Why do I earn money? For what? Why should I even negotiate a better wage with my chairman? Spice this up, it's utterly useless now. Another binary thing in a robotic life of the manager. Give me options to spend them.
    • Money is an important thing in the life of a manager or a football player life. In FM the wage is useless.
    • Allow me to pay my players a dinner, get me a house, help a young player to pay his rent, I don't know, give it a meaning, get me a wife so I buy her a house. Or just give me a random wage and good bye.
  • Get me invited in a live talk show, because my team just won the CL, etc.
  • Make me feel important. Kill the routine that appears extremely fast. Life is not dull at all, even if there are events that repeat themselves, a manager life is not a robot's life. It's a life filled with surprises and things to tackle, it's not like in 10 years I would know what would happen in the next game, or next training camp, or the next transfer window. The bigger you get as a football manager, the more things you have to deal with. 
  • The same as above, it's not hard to create 1 thousand events, so they don't look linear to a player, even if many of them have similar effects. The thrill of the game matters. I want after 10 years in management to get an event that never happened to me before. And I am not speaking about you have reached 10 years of management lol. After 20 the same. After 30 still the same, don't make me read the same lines for ever, because the life of a manager is not a temporal loop .
  • A lot of interesting things said in this thread: In game social dynamics
  • You have access to real football managers, talk to them about related things. The social component of the game is terrible. 

5. Too many binary options, that affect nothing. Improve them, make this game feel as it used to be. When a new FM game in the franchise meant waiting impatiently for the release date, because last year your training was so basic, and next year you have tons of coaches, training sessions, training grounds to upgrade, etc. Just an example of what I mean. Use in game events for this.

I am very sorry to say that, but in the last many years, FM is just about cosmetic upgrades, you are paying for the database upgrades, and new things that while you play have absolutely no effect on your game play, but work in the background. Don't tell me about the game tactic engine, because no matter what you do, every year there will be people disliking this or that, tactics are a thing that can be changed, that is not an addition, it's not something more.

Look at the manager picking screen. That was supposed to be a step forward. But in reality it's just about writing making some choices at the beginning of the game and good bye. The stats partnership? A different way to see stats. Because when I play today, I don't get any thrills in my belly because something changed since last year, and since two years ago, etc. It's been years since I saw a really quality update of the game.

[YKW]

I just want to say +1 to pretty much all of this. In the long run I think all of these would be great additions to the game.

Number 3 would be difficult to implement because no-one knows how something like China attacking the USA would affect football. I also think that it would be way too political for my liking if China kept attacking the USA in my games, but also it would be silly if it was made random and Ireland attacked USA or something.

I think it could be better if all the factors were rolled into one under some kind of name like "Sporting Economy." And then within that categories like "Grassroots," "amateur" and "Professional" and "Elite," graded from Weak to Strong.

This way the sensitive specifics of the situation could be avoided with a message like "Journalists have been suggesting that the current political situation in China could jeopardise the future of Chinese sports. Funding for grassroots athletes is said to be at an all time low."

Having a strong Sporting Economy in each of the various categories would have different effects. At grassroots level this could mean a wave of improved players in the future, or at elite level this could mean huge sponsorships and new stadiums being built.

For example, the host country of the Olympics would get a boost in a lot of the categories, and a situation like West Ham's Olympic Stadium move could happen as part of the effects of the Strong Sporting Economy.

[godzilu]

Regarding number 3, I think you misunderstood what I wanted to say. Because I am thinking as you do, this game is not about wars, or politics.

So, since there won't be any wars in this game, it is safe to assume that the economy will improve all around the globe, as history shows us it happens when people don't start using their clubs, swords, rockets and tanks. So the economic and development factors should be on a growing trend in the game, not static. If I play 40 years as a manager, Africa will still be poor old Africa, nevermind that today we have in Africa areas which are an example of evolution even for a lot of places from Europe. All these factors affect my manager life, yet they are frozen to the point that after 10 years I know exactly what to expect.

So therefore I agree with your Sporting Economy, this is not Europa Universalis or so. 

 

22 hours ago, YKW said:

For example, the host country of the Olympics would get a boost in a lot of the categories, and a situation like West Ham's Olympic Stadium move could happen as part of the effects of the Strong Sporting Economy.

Exactly what I want to see. Events that happen and that affect local football clubs and their managers. In my country for example a few clubs benefit from the fact that a large event will happen in a few years time, and the government is demolishing the old stadiums and building new ones. 

These types of events are rarely covered in FM. The football world is too static, prisoner to defining parameters that never evolve. It ruins the medium/long term immersion. 

Bottom line, the football manager universe should contract and expand based on flexible parameters. Don't throw the game in a cage. 

[YKW]

Haha you're right I thought you were suggesting that wars should be in the game

I like all these ideas.

[theopert]

There are wars in real life be it military and or financial.

Uncontrolled freedom brings big personal debt.

You would't want your kids to be alcoholics, gambling and or drug addicts.

I don't know whether it's boredom or reached another level... maybe both.

I want the religion and sexuality preference of people stated in the game but have been assured it won't happen because it's controversial.

Because I'm the boss in the game I should have the entitlement to hire and fire for team chemistry reasons.

Me... I'm Greek Orthodox and Heterosexual... not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[godzilu]

I agree with you Theo. They stripped the FM football world of a lot of things, instead of throwing a lot of salt and pepper over it. It seems that in 2016, for UK based developers ( I believe FM is UK based, right? ) to have religious beliefs or different sexual preferences is controversial oh my goodness. 

Long term saves are just tedious, on the short term at least you get to play around with real football players that you like.

[tiago_wakabayashi]

1 - excellent idea
2 - good one
3 - I could agree but I think it very hard to be applied in game for now. 
4 - Currently the wage is your protection for you avoid to be sacked before the time. I would like to buy a team, create one or invest money in the team I am managering but SI is against those things. 

[Weston]

On 7/28/2016 at 11:13, godzilu said:

• Manager related events
  • This game says that I have good relations with manager X. Oh really? Another binary relationship. Let's hold hands. For the God's sake, at least make me receive emails from my so called good relations, and allow me to reply or send predefined emails. Allow me to buy wine so I can share with the managers I am in good relations.
  • Get me invited in a live talk show, because my team just won the CL, etc.

I've also wondered about manager social dynamics. I just checked my profile on my current save and found a new guy under the section that shows those who have the lowest opinion of you. I don't even know who the guy is, much less why he hates me! How do I know he dislikes me if I know neither who he is nor why he dislikes me? Would be cool to see this sort of thing expanded upon.

Similarly, I read that before each season some (all?) leagues have all the managers meet which would be really cool and make things feel a bit more real then just a list of names. Talk shows etc could get a bit out of hand but there does seem to be a need for something above just the same old press conferences, as everyone loves to complain (I just took over a 6th tier side and it didn't occur to me til midseason how odd it felt having no press ever care enough about me to ask me questions haha!). 

[Blake_Porter]

Regarding the binary approach to other manager relations, I think we should be allowed to compliment other managers in the press like we used to be able to a long time ago. I'm not entirely sure why that was even taken away in the first place.

[Weston]

40 minutes ago, Blake_Porter said:

Regarding the binary approach to other manager relations, I think we should be allowed to compliment other managers in the press like we used to be able to a long time ago. I'm not entirely sure why that was even taken away in the first place.

True, I also find myself wanting to say nice things to managers / players to either jockey for future deals or just because I simply genuine like them even if we are in different leagues, but the game doesn't often give me such options.

[forameuss]

On 8/5/2016 at 12:23, godzilu said:

I agree with you Theo. They stripped the FM football world of a lot of things, instead of throwing a lot of salt and pepper over it. It seems that in 2016, for UK based developers ( I believe FM is UK based, right? ) to have religious beliefs or different sexual preferences is controversial oh my goodness. 

Long term saves are just tedious, on the short term at least you get to play around with real football players that you like.

In the wider game industry, you get people losing their collective minds because there's a black or female protagonist.  I guarantee that if you put those kinds of things in the game, there would be some examples of controversy around it.

Furthermore, what would be the reason why that needs to be added?  What does it add to the game if you now know that your regen striker is a homosexual Jew as opposed to a heterosexual Muslim?  Absolutely nothing.  So why include it?

As for the OP...

1+2+3) All of these should be dynamic, but they should be glacial in pace.  Let's take youth rating.  You mention national team success.  So, 2018, for some unknown reason, India win the World Cup.  Suddenly children across the land decide that football is something they want to get involved with.  So when does the youth rating increase?  I would say that this particular situation should see the youth rating very gradually increase over the next 10-15 years.  A World Cup isn't going to change how good players are in the next few years, it's going to mean that younger people take up football earlier, and do it to a degree that means when it does come time to move into the football world, they're better.  Terribly explained, but I'm sure you get what I mean.  Game importance is similar, but perhaps slightly less glacial than youth rating.  It would take some pretty huge events to have it shift in my opinion too.

[Weston]

3 hours ago, forameuss said:

Furthermore, what would be the reason why that needs to be added?  What does it add to the game if you now know that your regen striker is a homosexual Jew as opposed to a heterosexual Muslim?  Absolutely nothing.  So why include it?

I think religion could be useful in terms of accurately replicating players fasting or taking time off for religious holidays, their adaptability to new locations, or maybe even squad tension, refusal to wear betting sponsors (like that one Sevilla player that one time), maybe racial abuse when traveling to certain places, etc. All of this is probably too crazy for FM to include at least any time soon, though.

[Neil Brock]

Reviewed so locked.