Determination and work rate should be only one atributte

[inacion]

I never find a player with low determination and high work rate or vice versa. I think a player with good work rate must have a good determination also, maybe should be only one attribute. What do you think?

[herne79]

Determination and Work Rate govern two different areas of player behaviour.

Determination relates to how hard (mentally speaking) a player tries to succeed.  This is especially important if you are losing a match.

Work Rate is how much physical effort a player uses when playing.

So Determination is a mental attribute, Work Rate is physical.

[santy001]

They shouldn't be, they have very different functions and while they might reflect a similar area in how some perceive it a telling example is Lionel Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo. I believe they're both high determination, low work rate (and presumably a hidden attribute you can't see - high professionalism) players. 

When things are challenging in a game these are the kinds of players who persevere, but they don't have to put all their effort in, they don't have to run themselves into the ground chasing everything and close everyone down etc to be determined. 

Herne has got it spot on there, it probably is true that you won't see many high work rate players with low determination but it creates the difference between those players who are mentally very strong but perhaps don't need to put it all on the line in games physically. 

There's probably other attribute combinations similar to this as well, while not mutually exclusive generally speaking you'd expect low aggression & low dirtiness & vice versa to go hand in hand, but players can be very aggressive but fair. 

[crouchaldinho]

13 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Determination and Work Rate govern two different areas of player behaviour.

Determination relates to how hard (mentally speaking) a player tries to succeed.  This is especially important if you are losing a match.

Work Rate is how much physical effort a player uses when playing.

So Determination is a mental attribute, Work Rate is physical.

 

Work Rate is not a physical attribute. Both Determination and Work Rate are mental attributes.

 

[santy001]

I don't think he means for it to be confused as a physical attribute in the sense that pace is a physical attribute, but rather its a modifier of physical effort/exertion.

It's hard to explain in words quite what it does, for me the best example is pretty much always just Jon Walters, he has a work rate that's actually probably to his detriment at times since it leaves him too knackered to do other stuff.

[KUBI]

Work rate is for the one who is running up and down the pitch every match, no matter what happens. Determination is for the one who is fighting, working, biting when he thinks it could change the result.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, crouchaldinho said:

Work Rate is not a physical attribute

 

52 minutes ago, santy001 said:

its a modifier of physical effort/exertion

As Santy says.

Further, if you set General Training to "Physical" it not only trains players in areas such as Pace, Stamina, Strength and so on, but also Work Rate.

Work Rate is directly related to physical effort and (imo) should be listed under Physical attributes rather than the current Mental attributes, but I understand why it isn't.

[Welshace]

As mentioned, Determination is the mental fortitude to carry on when the stakes are down...

 

Work rate governs the mental attitude to give it his all physically.

[inacion]

2 hours ago, KUBI said:

Work rate is for the one who is running up and down the pitch every match, no matter what happens. Determination is for the one who is fighting, working, biting when he thinks it could change the result.

Looking to that description of Work rate, players with good work rate must have a good stamina. If they don't have good stamina their work rate won't be very effective.

Work Rate seems to have a dependency with stamina.

[inacion]

On youth players the first attributes I look are Work rate and determination, they will develop faster because they are hard workers. That's why I don't want players like Balotelli on my squad.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, inacion said:

On youth players the first attributes I look are Work rate and determination, they will develop faster because they are hard workers. That's why I don't want players like Balotelli on my squad.

Those 2 attributes don't affect development. Professionalism and Ambition (hidden attributes) do. Determination can be an indicator of a good personality, but it's not always the case.

[Smurf]

http://www.footballmanager.com/manual/fm2016/players/player-attributes/mental

 

Quote

 

Determination
A commitment to succeed. A determined player will give everything in order to win. This ties in with Bravery – players with a high attribute in one of these attributes may also be high in the other as the traits necessary are similar.

 

 

I take this as to mean that he'll throw his head at a ball even if a defender is swinging to kick it - or put his body on the line to stop a shot

Quote

Work Rate
This reflects the player’s mental drive to work to his full capacities. A high rating will ensure a player wants to work his socks off from start to finish, but he will need the necessary physical attributes to actually be able to pull it off. Nonetheless, it is an admirable trait to have in your team. It does not merely represent a willingness to run – something that would be inappropriate in many positions – but rather the willingness to go above and beyond the regulation call of duty, as it were.

 

I take this to mean that he will work as hard as he can not letting his performance drop, and will do everything to ensure he puts as much physical effort into his actions during a match.

 

There's more to it than that - I know.