How to Create the Bergkamp Number 10 Role

[James9]

First before I begin I would like to send a thank you out to some of the people who have helped me to understand this game. I feel like I am getting their slowly but surely. My main question is Ozil and Bergkamp. I have read post from Cleon and Ozil to the Arsenal about trying to create that Ozil role. Cleon in his recreating the Invincibles uses a 442 and had a CF S and DLFS as the main strikers and that seem to work. The problem with that for me is that Ozil cannot play in the Striker position and cannot play the DLF Support he would need a lot of training to master that role. 

If I  then look at the other roles for Ozil this would be a Trequartisa in the AMCL position or a Advance Playmaker in the AMCL. I know the role description for a Trequartisa does not lend to a player who will help with the defensive phase of the game. I did read a post by RT who explained that if a player as a good work rate and fit he would graft in the role as a Trequartisa. Ozil has good work rate and is a team player so would this mean he would contribute more to defensive phase of play or would the lazy Trequartisa description come into play. Ozil has all the right PPMs to play the Bergkamp role I just need to decide what role to give him and this where I need all of your help and knowledge. I have a CF  ahead slightly to the playing to the left so I am trying to create Henry role. Sanchez I feel can do this role well. I am going with a WM Attack and WP Attack on the wings. I might go with two Wide Midfielders very undecided on the wingers at the moment. I heard a football pundit compare Granit Xhaka to Petit. The Vierra  and Petit Midfield was great to watch and Inwould like to try and create either the Vierra and Petit Midfield or Vierra and Gilberto midfield does anyone have any ideas on this. 

 

I do feel like I am getting close with this game I just need the final push now and I will be there. 

[Cloista]

Trequartista or Advanced Playmaker (Attack) in the AMCR slot would be your best bet for Ozil.

[herne79]

Is this linked to your other current thread - the 4141 where you ask people to look at a pkm?  Or have you binned that save now?

Anyway, a couple of points:

10 hours ago, James9 said:

The problem with that for me is that Ozil cannot play in the Striker position and cannot play the DLF Support he would need a lot of training to master that role

If you think a player has the necessary attributes for a role, then put him into the role regardless of how natural (or not) he may be in the position.  It'll have a small impact on his Decisions attribute, but that's pretty much it.  You mention Cleon's threads, he wrote another piece (Meet the DLF I think it was called) where he took a Fullback and made him his main striker because the fullback had the right attributes for his needs.

With regards the Trequartista role, think of the in game description as describing how real life TQs may have behaved.  The likes of Zidane, Riquelme and so on did indeed float around the pitch doing what they liked, which rarely included anything defensive.  But define these players in game and their work rate (for example) will probably be pretty low.  Likewise, give a low work rate player the TQ role and you'll have a Zidane on your hands.  However, put a high work rate player into the TQ role and, especially if he has the PPM Comes Deep to get Ball and/or a high Aggression attribute, he'll run all day long.  If you've read my 442 thread, I use Tevez there and only the fullbacks put in more work than him.  So TL;DR, TQ role + low work rate player = something more akin to a real life TQ whereas TQ role + high work rate player = all those benefits along with someone who'll put in a shift.

I'd also watch carefully how the WP and TQ interact.  Both are "playmaker" roles, meaning they'll act like ball magnets.  If you want the TQ (Ozil) to be the main star, watch closely to make sure the WP isn't taking some of that away.

[Craigus89]

As herne says, in my experience the Treq does far more defensively than the in-game description would have you believe.

Have you actually tried Ozil in that position as a Treq and not had the performances that you'd hoped for? Or is this you thinking/planning ahead?

[James9]

No I am still playing my 4141 save.  But I started a new save yesterday with the aim of creating the Bergkamp role with Ozil. I came across Cleons Arsenal thread and I also came your 442 thread also and it got me thinking of how I can create this role with Ozil. I think they have similar attributes and they both like to create goals. I think as Bergkamp got older he started to drop deeper. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

For me, Bergkamp was a hybrid between a playmaker and a second striker.

My best advice on player roles is to make your decisions based on the Player Instructions screen where you can easily see how each role differs, and after a while you'll realise that the role names are rather more plastic than they seem.

You mention the Trequartista role but - for me - this role has serious flaws.

1. Obviously the lack of closing down. Yes, a player with good work-rate will still press but regardless - all things being equal - a player with high-work rate, instructed to close down will always close down more aggressively than the same player, instructed not to close down (aka the Trequartista). If this is not the case, then what is the point of having an instruction?
   
   This is a problem, but not a deal breaker for me.
    
2. The big problem - movement. The Trequartista moves laterally (side-to-side) rather than moving forward. Getting further forward is a conflicting instruction for the Trequartista.
   
   If you're playing a lone striker with an AMC behind, you generally need your AMC in some kind of attacking role, getting forward and giving support to your striker.
   
   In my opinion, Trequartista is a luxury role best suited to a 4-4-2 diamond or any formation with an AMC + 2 strikers. Sitting behind the strikers, causing havoc and moving into the open spaces out wide.

The Enganche is the opposite. Can move forward but moving wide and running with the ball are conflicting instructions. Clearly a highly specialist role.

So, that leaves us with Advanced Playmaker (Attack / Support) or Attacking Midfielder (Attack / Support). These are both "blank canvass" player roles, as they are heavily customisable using the different individual instructions. For example:

The inherent difference between these roles is simple. Playmaker or non-Playmaker roles, and Attacking or Supporting roles. So you have two questions:

1. Was Bergkamp a playmaker? If yes, one of the Advanced Playmaker roles. If no, Attacking Midfielder.
2. Was Bergkamp stay in 'the hole' or was he more aggressive? If sit in the hole, support. If more aggressive, attack.

Given that I see Bergkamp as a hybrid playmaker / striker, I would go for Advanced Playmaker (Attack) encouraged to Get Forward More.

Another advantage of the more customisable roles is that should you come up against a strong opposition DM (or two) taking him out of the game, it's simple to have him Roam more and Move into the Channels.

[James9]

Ozil thanks for you input . If you do not mind me asking what would you do with a player like Giroud. I am going to play with a CFS as the other striker. Giroud does not fit any of the playmaking roles and I am confused what to do with him now. 

[thomit]

The 4231 formation Wenger plays today is basically the same formation - both in attack and defense - as his "Invincibles" 442. The "Bergkamp position" has been shifted back to the AM strata and given a new role (arguably it was always a AM strata position, more like a 4411), as has the 2 wide positions; moved forward into the AM strata.  If you keep the 442 "Henry postion" just as it is and move the "Bergkamp" straight back, ie keep their left and right bias, and then move the 2 wide players forward, you end up with sort of an asymmetric 4231 - which coincidentally is exactly what I'm currently using. The "Bergkamp" I have given a AP/attack role, and placed Özil or Cazorla there. The "Henry" I keep as a AF, allthough I change that to TM/attack if Giroud plays there.

 

[James9]

The reason why is chose the CF S role was because form the videos of Henry he would get involved in the build up play also and I think the CF Support does and can still get goals. Would the AF not be a bit isolated and not getting involved in the build up play. I am using a assymmetric 4411 with Ozil in the AMRC position and I want the striker in the STCL position. I need my striker to link up with the rest of the team and I do not feel the AF will do that well.

[thomit]

No, in my 4231 there's usually plenty of players around to back up my striker. They may be a bit later to get into position if they're initial starting positions are in the midfield strata though. Maybe that is one of the reasons for moving the wide men up? The striker should  be the spearhead, imo, and not fall deep too often. Yes, I know Henry occasionally did that, but not at all to the extent you'll get with a CF/support role. There's already 3 creators in the midfield and AM strata; there's absolutely no need for the striker to help with that. His job is to be up there and be the main goal threat. That's my take on it. An AF will still do different things; he's not an out and out poacher, after all. And anyway, your choice of roles should reflect the players you have now, not what players long gone used to do.