Competing with the big teams

[aspink3]

I'm in my 4th season with Newcastle and the majority of games I play are comfortable, particularly at home. The one area that is stopping me from breaking into the european spots each season are my performances away vs teams with higher reputation (Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs). Its not just that results are poor; I barely get more than a couple of decent chances while the opposition dominate each game. 

I have tried several different systems over the course of three seasons, and once again I search for a tactic simply to compete against these teams away from home. I have now played 20 games away against these teams and have yet to win a game.

Record against these 6 teams away from home by season:

2015/16 p6 w0 d2 l4 f2 a11

2016/17 p6 w0 d1 l5 f5 a22

2017/18 p6 w0 d2 l4 f5 a14

My current system is a 4-2-3-1 (counter, flexible). Much lower tempo, short passing, play out of defence, exploit middle, pass into space, stay on feet, look for overlap, narrow, slightly higher line. Here is my first choice line up with age and role:

GK - Predrag Rajkovic 23 SK(A)

RB - Ricardo Esgaio 25 WB(A)

CB - Emanuel Mammana 22

CB - Brendan Galloway 22

LB - Douglas Santos 24 WB(A)

CM - Carles Alena 20 DLP(S)

CM - Juan Bautista Cascini 21 CM(S)

LW - Goncalo Guedes 21 IF(S)

RW - Fede Cartabia 25 IF(S)

AM - Marcus Rashford 21 SS(A)

ST - Adam Armstrong 21 CF(A)

I'm after some pointers to try and help me compete better in just these away games against higher reputation teams. I by no means expect to achieve victory every time, but as the stats show I have been on the end of some brutal losses in these games and need to stop the rot. I feel my team has a lot of potential, and have beaten these teams at home (recently beating Liverpool 5-1), but maybe I lack some experience for these tough away games? 

There must be some pointers to help me compete better in these games? Once I get over this obstacle I should be able to push for european football at last.

 

[herne79]

The 4231 is an aggressive formation.  The key is managing the gap between defence and midfield, and down the flanks.

Whilst you have pushed up the defensive line slightly, your starting point from the chosen mentality is very deep.  You then compound this by having both central midfielders on a support duty, thus leaving your central defenders dangerously exposed.  This may even be compounded further from combining your attacking wing backs and AML/R - if they get caught out of position your central midfielder may get pulled to the flank to cover, leaving even less of a defensive shield in the centre.

Against lesser or equal teams you might get away with that, but ramp up the quality of opposition along with their attacking play and they'll basically stomp all over your midfield.

Have a think about how you could improve your defensive shield for those tough away games.

[HUNT3R]

It's also compounded more by having Exploit Middle, which will see your midfielders get even more forward leaving you even more open.

[aspink3]

9 hours ago, herne79 said:

Have a think about how you could improve your defensive shield for those tough away games.

This leaves me with a couple of things to address - primarily how to tighten up defensively . I also need to ensure that I put together something that allows me to score more goals than I have done previously.

What is the the best approach to getting results from these games, even if its a draw or a scrappy win. My thoughts have been to counter playing a fast and direct style but this hasn't worked out for me yet in previous seasons. I still think counter is the best mentality given my reputation and young pacey squad. 

Is a flat 4-4-2 ideal for this or is there a better formation to execute the counter? Essentially, will two strikers leave me overrun in midfield

For a faster tempo do I need to play wide? Will this leave gaps in my defensive line?

 

[tmason122]

As Herne79 said you have a very aggressive formation for away games, particularly against teams of higher quality. The first things I would suggest is to find a way to include a defensive minded midfielder, ideally in the DM berth to give some extra protection for your defense. 

[kenpet]

I have the same problem, just can't compete with the big teams!

I am 4th with my Crystal Palace team, but whenever I face City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea & Spurs away I am usually 2-0 down after 10-15 minutes. I have tried to play defensive, counter, standard, attack... But I always concede 2 goals within 15 minutes against the big teams. So frustrating... I am not expecting a win, but smaller teams like Burnley & Hull usually lose with only 1 or 2 goals against the big teams...

[Keyzer Soze]

This year i think the 4141 tactic works really well against bigger teams. 

I usually go with that with a Standard/Counter mentality and have good results.

I think the key is using a more patience aproach.

I agree with Tmason about having someone in the DM strata. It make all the diference against bigger teams. 

[hoppo1982]

You also have a very young squad.

 

Could take 3/4 seasons before they reach their peak and compete at the top end of the table.

 

Their mental attributes would improve hopefully helping them compete in high pressure games and find more consistency

[herne79]

@aspink3

If you want to play a Counter Attacking system, it's more about your formation than anything else.

The basic idea is to sit deep, inviting the opposition forward in such a way that they over commit men forward so that when you win the ball back you can break forwards quickly with the ball and in numbers to overload their now fragile defence.

So, if you have a formation that has plenty of players in advanced positions when defending, such as the 4-2-3-1, the opposition is very unlikely to over commit men forward.  Therefore you need a defensive formation that has players deeper.  The 4-1-4-1 is a good example of this.  You could also stick with a 4-2-3-1, but move players back from MC to DMC and from AML/R/C to ML/R/C.

In terms of Mentality, any Mentality can trigger counter attacks, but using the Counter mentality makes it more likely that a counter will trigger (It's coded into the game). When a counter does trigger, the AI takes over, ignores all your other tactical settings and makes your team very attack minded for the duration of the counter attack.  Thus any tactical settings you set will be used by your team when you are not counter attacking.

TL;DR, using the correct formation + the right mentality = maximum chance for you to play counter attacking football.

This thread explores counter attacking football in great detail.

[aspink3]

I've been working on a 4-4-1-1 system for these games, focused on defensive structure for these tough away games. 

GK(D)

RWB(S), CB, CB, LWB(S)

W(A), BWM(D), DLP(S), W(A)

EG(A)

CF(A)

Counter (Flexible) - Normal tempo, fairly narrow, less closing, stay on feet, more discipline, play out from back, mixed passing, work into box

The first opportunity to test this came in a home game against 1st place Arsenal. I won 2-1 which was encouraging, but home form hasn't been the issue. Spurs away was the first away game to try, and I came away with a 1-1 draw. Not a bad result but still searching for that first away win in 4 seasons. The very next game was a tri to Old Trafford, where I took all 3 points with an injury time winner. I was by no means the better side and had to absorb lots of pressure, but a very satisfying result.

 

I hope now I have found a system that makes me more competitive in these games and can push into the top 4 regularly.