Football Manager 2017 Pre-Release Beta Feedback Thread

[waraka14]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Problem is that the opposition has the same tools you do, so if they are playing like Brazil, why aren't you/why are you letting them?

My job is to get my players into scoring positions, that's how I measure my tactic's success. Problem I've noticed is that the AI ratio of goals to chances is higher than mine. Meaning my team has to create a lot more chances in order to score what AI scores in less chances. I think the issue (and I've raised this before) is the extremely low shot on target ratio. I've got players like Leo Messi and Suarez averaging 20-25% shot on target ratio and agonizingly missing the target on easy chances and clear one on ones.

[RTHerringbone]

22 minutes ago, zacarias said:

Any comments?

What comments do you want? An attacking system has produced a high volume of low quality shots.

[Boss]

Anyone know what will happen to the England National team manager come release?

Will this stay as it is (i.e. job be vacant at the start of the game) or will Southgate be appointed full time for release version?

[HUNT3R]

6 minutes ago, waraka14 said:

Problem I've noticed is that the AI ratio of goals to chances is higher than mine.

Which goes back to the same thing. There's no bias in the ME. The ME can't distinguish between human and AI so if they can do it, you can too.

[Welshace]

5 minutes ago, Boss said:

Anyone know what will happen to the England National team manager come release?

Will this stay as it is (i.e. job be vacant at the start of the game) or will Southgate be appointed full time for release version?

Entirely depends on the situation in real life at the time of release or when data changes are locked.. but it's fairly significant, so I would hope that the game would reflect the situation in real life accurately.

[Boss]

13 minutes ago, Welshace said:

Entirely depends on the situation in real life at the time of release or when data changes are locked.. but it's fairly significant, so I would hope that the game would reflect the situation in real life accurately.

As I understand it though, no decision will be made before 4th Nov as the final 2 games under his 'test' period won't have been played then.

[Welshace]

2 minutes ago, Boss said:

As I understand it though, no decision will be made before 4th Nov as the final 2 games under his 'test' period won't have been played then.

What I said still stands... Whoever is in the job when the game data is closed off, will no doubt be in the job in game imo, whether that's Gareth or not.

[alian62]

Not happy ... got 2.7 gb downloaded with 23 minutes left so I paused it . Went back later and I pressed resume and it started from the beginning

[johnhughthom]

Speaking of the England job, the Social Media tab has made managing in international football even worse this time around. For something that is supposed to immerse us in the footballing world, it has made me feel even less a part of it as England Manager. The only messages on it are squad announcements and results, with no real positive or negative feedback. Removing our ability to manage our inbox has made this even worse, as I used to be able to get messages about the other home nations, but now all I get are the same generic announcement/result posts on social media. The inbox opinions you do see are from "a former England player", not exactly drawing me in with that. The lack of press conferences just highlights the lack of immersion in what is supposed to be one of the most high profile jobs in football.

Liking the match engine and animations so far though. Watched a number of AI v AI games and it's better than 16 from what I've seen.

Edited October 25, 2016 by johnhughthom

[suncrush]

The green vs. blue on the comparison screen was a bad idea.

[Simonaghan79]

I started a game with Sheffield Wednesday and after selling 6-7 players and buying 3-4 I am left with 90k free wage budget and 1 mil transfer.  

The board will not entertain budget requests at all even on deadline day.  I switched budgets quite a lot on FM16.  is this a bug?  What are everyone else's experiences with this?

Also I get 2 star graphics / computer performance with all the major leagues but in fm16 I get 5! I use a Mac 21inch (2011).  Is there a reason for such a large difference?

Apart from this I am massively impressed so far.  

Edited October 25, 2016 by Simonaghan79

[zacarias]

43 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

What comments do you want? An attacking system has produced a high volume of low quality shots.

I don't think these numbers simulate what happens in real life. Even with such an attack system or a mediocre defense. But it's okay if it is isolated.

[Double0Seven]

2 minutes ago, zacarias said:

I don't think these numbers simulate what happens in real life. Even with such an attack system or a mediocre defense. But it's okay if it is isolated.

Ive seen it happen in real life even in the Premier League. http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35510145 Ok not exactly 41 shots, but I was watching and it was a pretty crazy game as everton could have shot even more if they wanted. 

[Heath Matthias]

Had a player get a facial injury and was asked if I wanted it treated by doctors (1-3 days out) or physios (12-15 days out).  Why on earth would I ever choose physio here?  Is there any downside to choosing doctor?

[PleasedToMichu]

6 minutes ago, Heath Matthias said:

Had a player get a facial injury and was asked if I wanted it treated by doctors (1-3 days out) or physios (12-15 days out).  Why on earth would I ever choose physio here?  Is there any downside to choosing doctor?

Can only think maybe the doctor costs money?

[Vaikaris]

1651 hours in fm13

1670 hours in fm14

993 hours in fm15

412 hours in fm16

 

I predict I'll do less than 200 on this.

 

Way too many crashes. Seems to me SI is relying on the zombification of us regular customers who will buy FM no matter what, completely throwing us to the side and seeking out new buyers. I am sick of it and will not buy 18.

 

Adress OUR concerns or suffer a loss of players that your attempts to find new niches and players will NOT fix. It's as simple as that.

 

P.s. funnily enough as I tabbed out of a frustrating game to type this I tabbed back in halfway through and the game crashed. Wish I was joking.

[michaeltmurrayuk]

18 hours ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Asking again - Does anyone know if there is any way to share graphics folders between FMT and Full Fat this year with them being separate apps ?

I haven't downloaded the Touch version to test, but there shouldn't be any reason why you cannot follow the instructions in this post to change your User Data to a custom location and then have both versions of the game pointing to the same location or just change the Touch Location to use the same location as the main game:

 

[suncrush]

I haven't had a single crash, nor have any of my friends. How many other processes are running? How long has it been since you did a virus scan?  This version of the game is phenomenally stable.

[Vaikaris]

Just now, suncrush said:

I haven't had a single crash, nor have any of my friends. How many other processes are running? How long has it been since you did a virus scan?  This version of the game is phenomenally stable.

I'm running firefox, skype, FM and word on a very solid laptop. Windows reinstalled very recently and clean.

 

No, it is not phenomenally stable. I am unable to play for more than 20 minutes without a crash unless I never tab out of the game.

[Cougar2010]

5 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

P.s. funnily enough as I tabbed out of a frustrating game to type this I tabbed back in halfway through and the game crashed. Wish I was joking.

Crashes are a tough area to deal with as there are an unlimited combinations of hardware & software to deal with.

That said in terms of alt tabbing you are better to use the "Maxmised borderless window" option rather than the "full screen" option.

[HUNT3R]

17 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

Adress OUR concerns or suffer a loss of players that your attempts to find new niches and players will NOT fix. It's as simple as that.

Your concerns CAN be addressed if you report your issue. Go through this, please: 

Find the question on the left that is applicable to your situation and follow the steps.

[Vaikaris]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

Your concerns CAN be addressed if you report your issue. Go through this, please: 

Find the question on the left that is applicable to your situation and follow the steps.

No thank you, already went through this whole process with 16, from beta feedback to cotninously trying to find a solution for not having to save after every match or lose progress due to crashes. As I bought the game yet again (stupidly), I will submit my feedback to the unpaid testing we do every year and that's it.

 

Thankfully it seems I'm not the only one who is sick of seeing new features added to the game while none of the old, serious problems are fixed, so maybe if SI doesn't step it up, they'll learn a thing or two come 18 when we've had enough.

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

No thank you, already went through this whole process with 16, from beta feedback to cotninously trying to find a solution for not having to save after every match or lose progress due to crashes. As I bought the game yet again (stupidly), I will submit my feedback to the unpaid testing we do every year and that's it.

 

Thankfully it seems I'm not the only one who is sick of seeing new features added to the game while none of the old, serious problems are fixed, so maybe if SI doesn't step it up, they'll learn a thing or two come 18 when we've had enough.

 

 

If you are not going to do this, then there is little that can be investigated SI's side with your particular issue..

[Vaikaris]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

If you are not going to do this, then there is little that can be investigated SI's side.

You "investigated" heavily upon my issue with 16. Nothing happened. Either way, the crashes are hardly my biggest problem, although it's still a little insulting that, as I said, new features seem to get added without old problems being touched. I'm expressing my concerns mostly as someone disappointed in 16. The only reason I'm doing so in 17 beta is because I've played FM for longer than 90% of the people even on these forums and I gave the game an extra year.

The only reason I relented in buying 17 is that it seemed like the new advice you're given (with the little tick to apply advice) seems to slightly stop the endless torrent of drama that never seems to have a logical solution (it's wonderful to have a fully professional player threaten you with dressing room revolt if you don't accept an offer from a questionably higher team while he still has 3 years left on his contract and is captain) and I also appreciated the attempts to give more depth to tactics.

Now, a little into the season, I still spend my time dealing with ridiculous player demands, interactions, way too many injuries at the same time and other issues.

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Vaikaris said:

You "investigated" heavily upon my issue with 16. Nothing happened. Either way, the crashes are hardly my biggest problem, although it's still a little insulting that, as I said, new features seem to get added without old problems being touched. I'm expressing my concerns mostly as someone disappointed in 16. The only reason I'm doing so in 17 beta is because I've played FM for longer than 90% of the people even on these forums and I gave the game an extra year.

The only reason I relented in buying 17 is that it seemed like the new advice you're given (with the little tick to apply advice) seems to slightly stop the endless torrent of drama that never seems to have a logical solution (it's wonderful to have a fully professional player threaten you with dressing room revolt if you don't accept an offer from a questionably higher team while he still has 3 years left on his contract and is captain) and I also appreciated the attempts to give more depth to tactics.

Now, a little into the season, I still spend my time dealing with ridiculous player demands, interactions, way too many injuries at the same time and other issues.

 

 

You seemed to have only joined in the last hour, so I can't see any of your issues from last year. Crashes happen for an absolute multitude of reasons. So without you being more specific, there really is little that can be done unfortunately.

[Double0Seven]

9 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

No thank you, already went through this whole process with 16, from beta feedback to cotninously trying to find a solution for not having to save after every match or lose progress due to crashes. As I bought the game yet again (stupidly), I will submit my feedback to the unpaid testing we do every year and that's it.

 

Thankfully it seems I'm not the only one who is sick of seeing new features added to the game while none of the old, serious problems are fixed, so maybe if SI doesn't step it up, they'll learn a thing or two come 18 when we've had enough.

 

 

You would almost think SI dont have your exact computer setup at their office so they can test and find out the problem immediately. 

 

Just now, Vaikaris said:

You "investigated" heavily upon my issue with 16. Nothing happened. Either way, the crashes are hardly my biggest problem, although it's still a little insulting that, as I said, new features seem to get added without old problems being touched. I'm expressing my concerns mostly as someone disappointed in 16. The only reason I'm doing so in 17 beta is because I've played FM for longer than 90% of the people even on these forums and I gave the game an extra year.

The only reason I relented in buying 17 is that it seemed like the new advice you're given (with the little tick to apply advice) seems to slightly stop the endless torrent of drama that never seems to have a logical solution (it's wonderful to have a fully professional player threaten you with dressing room revolt if you don't accept an offer from a questionably higher team while he still has 3 years left on his contract and is captain) and I also appreciated the attempts to give more depth to tactics.

Now, a little into the season, I still spend my time dealing with ridiculous player demands, interactions, way too many injuries at the same time and other issues.

 

 

From someone who does a bit of coding, when theres a problem, it can have multiple multiple issues. Whenther its from SI's side, your side or a combination of both. Its practiclly impossible to fix every piece of code to make it work on every bit of machine with different specs etc. 

 

If the player demands are that ridicoulous, interactons, injuries please show them with proof and im sure SI will have a look into it. I sometimes feel too many people dont actually follow real life football and dont realise how close SI is to real life football. Injuries happen, you think Wenger isnt mad they happen so often with his team too? My local club some years ago went through first striker injured, second striker injured 10 mins after replacing first one, 3rd backup striker got a red card and his junior replacement the next game got injured at half time. It happens man. 

[Double0Seven]

http://imgur.com/a/Nj4Xi

 

 

However I did find this one on the internet. Had a giggle but seems like to be a real bug. 

 

And this one 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Double0Seven

[RobertPage]

Bit concerned over the number of long term injuries my team is picking up. Getting a few small knocks as well (i have nothing wrong with this) but four serious injuries (as one had already happened before the game started) is quite frustrating. 

[Simonaghan79]

I started a game with Sheffield Wednesday and after selling 6-7 players and buying 3-4 I am left with 90k free wage budget and 1 mil transfer.  

The board will not entertain budget requests at all even on deadline day.  I switched budgets quite a lot on FM16.  is this a bug?  What are everyone else's experiences with this?

Also I get 2 star graphics / computer performance with all the major leagues but in fm16 I get 5! I use a Mac 21inch (2011).  Is there a reason for such a large difference?

Apart from this I am massively impressed so far.

Can anyone advise please?

[Vaikaris]

Just now, RobertPage said:

Bit concerned over the number of long term injuries my team is picking up. Getting a few small knocks as well (i have nothing wrong with this) but four serious injuries (as one had already happened before the game started) is quite frustrating. 

Hey, just buy their in-game editor, right?

[suncrush]

On the other hand, if you look at any sport, at any level, there's always one team in the league who deal with this every season.

 

http://www.online-betting.me.uk/english-premier-league-injuries-and-suspensions.php

[jacknjill]

In my opinion the engine is too much waited on if your doing really well your expected to change and go defensive if say your winning easy and dominating. Every time I don't you lose goal after goal. I tested this in the last 4 games 2 nil up and both drew 2 all they had 2 shots on target !! Next up 1 nil up 60% poss they score in last minute. It's not realistic to have to go defensive just because your winning easy. Yes the other team can change tactics but not likely to come back every time. Needs to be rebalanced I think

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, suncrush said:

On the other hand, if you look at any sport, at any level, there's always one team in the league who deal with this every season.

 

http://www.online-betting.me.uk/english-premier-league-injuries-and-suspensions.php

Indeed, there are 3 teams in the Premier League alone that already have 7 or more injuries.

Injury rates are about 80% of that in real life. Though if people think they are seeing something suspect, always worth reporting.

[Vaikaris]

Just now, Double0Seven said:

You would almost think SI dont have your exact computer setup at their office so they can test and find out the problem immediately. 

 

From someone who does a bit of coding, when theres a problem, it can have multiple multiple issues. Whenther its from SI's side, your side or a combination of both. Its practiclly impossible to fix every piece of code to make it work on every bit of machine with different specs etc. 

 

If the player demands are that ridicoulous, interactons, injuries please show them with proof and im sure SI will have a look into it. I sometimes feel too many people dont actually follow real life football and dont realise how close SI is to real life football. Injuries happen, you think Wenger isnt mad they happen so often with his team too? My local club some years ago went through first striker injured, second striker injured 10 mins after replacing first one, 3rd backup striker got a red card and his junior replacement the next game got injured at half time. It happens man. 

Forget about the crash issues. That's a dead end.

 

I mentioned the player demands last FM. No one did anything. They are now just as, if not more ridiculous.

 

Yes, SI is close to real life football. That is commendable. Does that also mean we need to include referee bribing and match-fixing in certain leagues? There are certain areas where realism doesn't need to be brought in. Massive mercenary culture doesn't need to enter with the full glory of its plasticity, especially when it can't be managed. I don't mind my player wanting me to accept an offer from a club, that's fine, but when I don't have the option to explain to him that I won't accept 1 million spread out over 6 decades for my star player with 2 years left, worth 500k, he says ok and then upon me rejecting 1.0000001 million, gets so mad I can't do anything, that's not ok. You can't insert realistic dressing room drama to its fullest without giving us the options of dealing with it. If I can't talk to my youngsters and explain to them that, as evidenced by my past 50 sales they will be able to join Real Madrid if they stay one more season, as opposed to being a bench-player in 2nd league Turkey, then I shouldn't be faced with EVERY youngster wanting to leave.

And on the injuries - please note the image. I have a very good idea of injury frequency. And it seems to have suspiciously gone up significantly ever since SI offered a paid option of clearing injuries.

[Daffius]

I don't want to open a new thread for this as it doesn't warrant one, but I'll share my general impression of this years version.

This is the first iteration, where I struggled at first to find what's new. I've only played half a season and with a low division club, but so far it's very similar to the previous versions. I dare say too similar?

I know/guess there are a lot of improvements under the hood, I just don't see it (yet). Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the game and don't expect everything to be turned upside down each year, but with this version I sort of feel I'm playing 16.5 and not 17.

My 2 cents.

[Vaikaris]

Just now, jacknjill said:

In my opinion the engine is too much waited on if your doing really well your expected to change and go defensive if say your winning easy and dominating. Every time I don't you lose goal after goal. I tested this in the last 4 games 2 nil up and both drew 2 all they had 2 shots on target !! Next up 1 nil up 60% poss they score in last minute. It's not realistic to have to go defensive just because your winning easy. Yes the other team can change tactics but not likely to come back every time. Needs to be rebalanced I think

Unfortunately comebacks are a solid feautre since 16 (a bit less so in 15), to the point where it has lost all its excitement. I now know going 3-0 up will likely result in a 3-3 draw and I am not at all excited when I do a comeback from 0-2 down, because I could see it coming a mile away.

[Double0Seven]

Just now, Vaikaris said:

Unfortunately comebacks are a solid feautre since 16 (a bit less so in 15), to the point where it has lost all its excitement. I now know going 3-0 up will likely result in a 3-3 draw and I am not at all excited when I do a comeback from 0-2 down, because I could see it coming a mile away.

Vaikaris, this all seems like a bit of confirmation bias coming from your way. You think something is like this, so if you see it happen it will only confirm your thoughts even more. Its very hard to change opinions like this. But if you want to change mine, it would be nice if you could actually proof stuff like this and the injuries. 

 

If the problem is so significant words wont do, how about upload multiple screens/saves of your games with stats of the amount of injuries across every FM version compared to real life. So we can compare FM injuries from year to year AND compare it to real life and talk about if its realistic/not realistic. If the PROBLEM is so significant according to you(saw multiple posts about it from you), then we should be able to see it as well. If not then Im going towards confirmation bias from your own side. 

 

Also you have 8 injuries, with 3 being under one week. Theres only two injuries over 1+month. Thats not a lot of injury time compared to real life http://www.online-betting.me.uk/english-premier-league-injuries-and-suspensions.php. Look at this agian. 

[Carninho]

I look forward to reading more of your angry rants when the FM18 BETA comes out Vailkaris. See you in a year.

(He does know that he's playing the BETA right, and that means bug testing..... )

[Vaikaris]

Just now, Carninho said:

I look forward to reading more of your angry rants when the FM18 BETA comes out Vailkaris. See you in a year.

(He does know that he's playing the BETA right, and that means bug testing..... )

Everyone has a limit to their patience. You seem to have exactly the same attitude SI do though - "criticize all you want, we don't care, we'll do whatever we want and we know we'll see you next year".

I'd name famous historical examples of failures with that attitude, but history doesn't seem to note epic failure that often.

The beta has roughly the same match engine the game itself will have. If an overhaul is done that adresses major issues, I will be the first to apologize and take back my words.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Vaikaris said:

Everyone has a limit to their patience. You seem to have exactly the same attitude SI do though - "criticize all you want, we don't care, we'll do whatever we want and we know we'll see you next year".

I'd name famous historical examples of failures with that attitude, but history doesn't seem to note epic failure that often.

The beta has roughly the same match engine the game itself will have. If an overhaul is done that adresses major issues, I will be the first to apologize and take back my words.

That's quite enough now from you. If you don't want help with your crashes, that's fine, but lay off the digs. Help was offered - you don't want it.

[Double0Seven]

6 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

Everyone has a limit to their patience. You seem to have exactly the same attitude SI do though - "criticize all you want, we don't care, we'll do whatever we want and we know we'll see you next year".

I'd name famous historical examples of failures with that attitude, but history doesn't seem to note epic failure that often.

The beta has roughly the same match engine the game itself will have. If an overhaul is done that adresses major issues, I will be the first to apologize and take back my words.

Dont care to answer my point, because you dont have proof?

 

Do you even realise what good of a game FM is compared to other big games? Ever played a moba or some big shooter? I can easily name up some companies that are bigger and richer then SI but provide a terrible game in comparisions with lots of bugs left and right. And here we are nitpicking every small detail of a pretty decent game to be honest. 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Double0Seven

[sue_donym]

1 hour ago, RobertPage said:

Bit concerned over the number of long term injuries my team is picking up. Getting a few small knocks as well (i have nothing wrong with this) but four serious injuries (as one had already happened before the game started) is quite frustrating. 

I generally don't think there's a problem with injuries, but I was intrigued to note a LLM manager also getting two broken legs, as I got two in my first season in the National League North too.  It's not so exceptional as to be anomalous on its own, but I was a little bit surprised as I don't remember ever having got two broken legs in a season before.  

[Vaikaris]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

That's quite enough now from you. If you don't want help with your crashes, that's fine, but lay off the digs. Help was offered - you don't want it.

This discussion is no longer about crashes.

It's general criticism. Is that unacceptable? If so, I will happily withdraw.

Just now, Double0Seven said:

Dont care to answer my point, because you dont have proof?

 

Do you even realise what good of a game FM is compared to other big games? Ever played a moba or some big shooter? I can easily name up some companies that are bigger and richer then SI but provide a terrible game in comparisions with lots of bugs left and right. And here we are nitpicking every small detail of a pretty decent game to be honest. 

 

 

Going through my 16 saves and yearly match schedules to show you the large amount of games with 85 min + goals making comebacks is not worth the effort of you rebuking it with a comment about anecdotal evidence. I am not a paid tester. I am playing the beta and expressing my opinion on it. Spending hours of my day trying to prove issues  with guaranteed inaction (if I complain about something they've implemented for 3 straight games, they'll hardly change their policy to satisfy a single customer) is not something you or SI should expect of me.

 

Your attitude is why they feel complacement in improving the game - SI has the privildge of rolling out the same game every year for 60 euros which we all buy regardless of what they do. As far as I'm aware, mobas and big shooters do not cost 60 euros PER YEAR. That football manager is a good game has never been debatable. What I'm saying is that they are going in the wrong direction and are about to lose their customer base, which is still made up of people like me, despite efforts to make casual gameplay modes.

 

Nitpicking and criticism is a force of ultimate good, because it provides opportunities to improve. If we didn't nitpick, we'd be screwing SI quite hard, as we'd deny them the opportunity to see the game through their customer's eyes.

 

 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Vaikaris said:

It's general criticism. Is that unacceptable?

Depends on whether it's constructive or not. Accusing SI of complacency isn't on.

Speaking of, it's not even on topic. So keep it for feedback on the Beta.

 

And here is an important section of the house rules : https://community.sigames.com/topic/298538-failure-to-read-or-follow-house-rules/

 

[Carninho]

55 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

13 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

Everyone has a limit to their patience. You seem to have exactly the same attitude SI do though - "criticize all you want, we don't care, we'll do whatever we want and we know we'll see you next year".

I'd name famous historical examples of failures with that attitude, but history doesn't seem to note epic failure that often.

The beta has roughly the same match engine the game itself will have. If an overhaul is done that adresses major issues, I will be the first to apologize and take back my words.

You have played hours of FM over the years, as have I since the first Champ Man. So I'd have thought you would know how it works by now 

The BETA finds loads of faults each year, the more people that play it and report issues the better. in previous years before early access BETA's we had to wait months for issues to be fixed and patched out. 

And again every year FM has 'issues' and every year people say that they want their money back and will never play it again, blah blah blah, but they do because its still the best game out there.  Stick to FM16. 

As for people that say "FM17 is rubbish and a waste of money, its only a patch on FM16. They are making money on FM v16.5...." that one drives me insane. how about you work out the cost per hour of playing FM, and see what value for money you get. its like 10p a day to play

 

[Double0Seven]

7 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

This discussion is no longer about crashes.

It's general criticism. Is that unacceptable? If so, I will happily withdraw.

Going through my 16 saves and yearly match schedules to show you the large amount of games with 85 min + goals making comebacks is not worth the effort of you rebuking it with a comment about anecdotal evidence. I am not a paid tester. I am playing the beta and expressing my opinion on it. Spending hours of my day trying to prove issues  with guaranteed inaction (if I complain about something they've implemented for 3 straight games, they'll hardly change their policy to satisfy a single customer) is not something you or SI should expect of me.

 

Your attitude is why they feel complacement in improving the game - SI has the privildge of rolling out the same game every year for 60 euros which we all buy regardless of what they do. As far as I'm aware, mobas and big shooters do not cost 60 euros PER YEAR. That football manager is a good game has never been debatable. What I'm saying is that they are going in the wrong direction and are about to lose their customer base, which is still made up of people like me, despite efforts to make casual gameplay modes.

 

Nitpicking and criticism is a force of ultimate good, because it provides opportunities to improve. If we didn't nitpick, we'd be screwing SI quite hard, as we'd deny them the opportunity to see the game through their customer's eyes.

 

 

In which place do you live that this game costs you 60 euros a year? I never spend more then 30~ to get FM and thats almost on release day. I never pre order, because I dont care for the beta and im sure many others do the same as me. 

 

I know you are not a paid tester, but when you claim such a big point such as SI introducing more injuries so they can make money off one of their features, well then its better to back it up with proof right? I too can come here telling things yet barely anyone will believe me if I dont have any sensable proof. 

 

Yeah most mobas and shooters dont cost as much as FM, but players on avg spend way more on those games then on FM, just look at how big LoL,dota and csgo are. I played all these games and I can assure you that a game such as csgo(top 3 most played pc games), is horrible at times when it comes to fixing bugs. There are countless bugs from since the BETA stage of the game almost 5 years ago still NOT fixed. Well does SI ever let that happen? I think not. And even lol gets a lot of criticism for not innovating enough and adding too much pointless stuff. Oh yeah to mention, csgo has a bug that has been in the game for over a year, community made lots of videos on it and it took the company over months to fix even with their BETA testing client(and it still was messed up on release for weeks...). Now imagine SI fixing a bug, introducing 10 more bugs and then taking weeks to fix up all those bugs and even by then the original bug is half assed fixed. Oh yeah and theres still the other bugs they introduced in the meantime of fixing those bugs. Thats csgo in a nutshell at times. 

 

I think you are having a too high standard of what is just a football management game. Nothing can be perfect, but to go on claim stuff like SI adding injuries to make more money and SI losing customer base without any proof to back it up(maybes there none ;). Afaik FM only continues to grow and this year the pre orders were at their highest despite a controversial pre order loyality blind offer. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Double0Seven

[herne79]

@Vaikaris I appreciate you don't want to start creating new threads and bug reports for SI to investigate as you say you did all this last year.

Unfortunately this seems to be a new account you recently created, so we can't tie things back to your FM16 posts.  Could you please provide a link to these threads, or at least the user name you were posting under then?

Thanks.

[Vaikaris]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

Depends on whether it's constructive or not. Accusing SI of complacency isn't on.

Speaking of, it's not even on topic. So keep it for feedback on the Beta.

 

And here is an important section of the house rules : https://community.sigames.com/topic/298538-failure-to-read-or-follow-house-rules/

 

Ok, If you feel long-time customers being dissatisfied isn't constructive, I'll stop mentioning it.

 

Just now, Carninho said:

 

Issues and bugs =/= deep flaws within the match engine implemented in the past years as a general strategic orientation of the game development.

I believe your suggestion with sticking to previous versions of FM and not buying new ones is the opposite of what SI wants.

And I'll just briefly mention that yes, every year there's people complaining (every year since 2014, iirc, quite a lot), but I seem to notice that this year FM17 has a 67% negative rating on steam. Steam, where certain blunder's of the century manage 31% positive.

 

Just now, Double0Seven said:

In which place do you live that this game costs you 60 euros a year? I never spend more then 30~ to get FM and thats almost on release day. I never pre order, because I dont care for the beta and im sure many others do the same as me. 

 

I know you are not a paid tester, but when you claim such a big point such as SI introducing more injuries so they can make money off one of their features, well then its better to back it up with proof right? I too can come here telling things yet barely anyone will believe me if I dont have any sensable proof. 

 

Yeah most mobas and shooters dont cost as much as FM, but players on avg spend way more on those games then on FM, just look at how big LoL,dota and csgo are. I played all these games and I can assure you that a game such as csgo(top 3 most played pc games), is horrible at times when it comes to fixing bugs. There are countless bugs from since the BETA stage of the game almost 5 years ago still NOT fixed. Well does SI ever let that happen? I think not. And even lol gets a lot of criticism for not innovating enough and adding too much pointless stuff. Oh yeah to mention, csgo has a bug that has been in the game for over a year, community made lots of videos on it and it took the company over months to fix even with their BETA testing client(and it still was messed up on release for weeks...). Now imagine SI fixing a bug, introducing 10 more bugs and then taking weeks to fix up all those bugs and even by then the original bug is half assed fixed. Oh yeah and theres still the other bugs they introduced in the meantime of fixing those bugs. Thats csgo in a nutshell at times. 

 

I think you are having a too high standard of what is just a football management game. Nothing can be perfect, but to go on claim stuff like SI adding injuries to make more money and SI losing customer base without any proof to back it up(maybes there none ;). Afaik FM only continues to grow and this year the pre orders were at their highest despite a controversial pre order loyality blind offer. 

Go around, read some feedback - I'm not the only one complaining injuries have gotten more frequent and besides, it's only one of many other complaints.

 

I have the exact standard one should expect from a game we buy every year, market ourselves and support the hell out of. Any company in the world dreams of customers like SI has, that will willingly go out of their way to even test the game before it's ready.

 

On FM growing - a 3% growth on a possible 5% is still a loss, but this is not something I can argue. I hope I'm not just voicing my own complaint here, but if I am, so be it, I guess I'll have to drop off the FM train and see it roll merilly on its way.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Vaikaris said:

Ok, If you feel long-time customers being dissatisfied isn't constructive, I'll stop mentioning it.

I feel long-time customers have the right to be dissatisfied if they feel that way. On this forum, they NEED to be constructive though because it ends up in a better forum and a better product - good news for all concerned.

Quote

Go around, read some feedback - I'm not the only one complaining injuries have gotten more frequent and besides, it's only one of many other complaints.

You might not be the only one claiming this, but injury rates haven't been touched since FM16.

That said, if you can prove - with a save - that injury levels aren't realistic (whether it's the frequency or length of injuries) then upload a save. For all the complaints, nobody has done that yet.

Injury levels are below real life, so it won't be adjusted unless someone has a save that shows something is wrong.

[Double0Seven]

19 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

This discussion is no longer about crashes.

It's general criticism. Is that unacceptable? If so, I will happily withdraw.

Going through my 16 saves and yearly match schedules to show you the large amount of games with 85 min + goals making comebacks is not worth the effort of you rebuking it with a comment about anecdotal evidence. I am not a paid tester. I am playing the beta and expressing my opinion on it. Spending hours of my day trying to prove issues  with guaranteed inaction (if I complain about something they've implemented for 3 straight games, they'll hardly change their policy to satisfy a single customer) is not something you or SI should expect of me.

 

Your attitude is why they feel complacement in improving the game - SI has the privildge of rolling out the same game every year for 60 euros which we all buy regardless of what they do. As far as I'm aware, mobas and big shooters do not cost 60 euros PER YEAR. That football manager is a good game has never been debatable. What I'm saying is that they are going in the wrong direction and are about to lose their customer base, which is still made up of people like me, despite efforts to make casual gameplay modes.

 

Nitpicking and criticism is a force of ultimate good, because it provides opportunities to improve. If we didn't nitpick, we'd be screwing SI quite hard, as we'd deny them the opportunity to see the game through their customer's eyes.

 

 

In which place do you live that this game costs you 60 euros a year? I never spend more then 30~ to get FM and thats almost on release day. I never pre order, because I dont care for the beta and im sure many others do the same as me. 

 

I know you are not a paid tester, but when you claim such a big point such as SI introducing more injuries so they can make money off one of their features, well then its better to back it up with proof right? I too can come here telling things yet barely anyone will believe me if I dont have any sensable proof. 

 

Yeah most mobas and shooters dont cost as much as FM, but players on avg spend way more on those games then on FM, just look at how big LoL,dota and csgo are. I played all these games and I can assure you that a game such as csgo(top 3 most played pc games), is horrible at times when it comes to fixing bugs. There are countless bugs from since the BETA stage of the game almost 5 years ago still NOT fixed. Well does SI ever let that happen? I think not. And even lol gets a lot of criticism for not innovating enough and adding too much pointless stuff.

 

I think you are having a too high standard of what is just a football management game. Nothing can be perfect, but to go on claim stuff like SI adding injuries to make more money and SI losing customer base without any proof to back it up(maybes there none ;). Afaik FM only continues to grow and this year the pre orders were at their highest despite a controversial pre order loyality blind offer. 

3 minutes ago, Vaikaris said:

Ok, If you feel long-time customers being dissatisfied isn't constructive, I'll stop mentioning it.

 

Issues and bugs =/= deep flaws within the match engine implemented in the past years as a general strategic orientation of the game development.

I believe your suggestion with sticking to previous versions of FM and not buying new ones is the opposite of what SI wants.

And I'll just briefly mention that yes, every year there's people complaining (every year since 2014, iirc, quite a lot), but I seem to notice that this year FM17 has a 67% negative rating on steam. Steam, where certain blunder's of the century manage 31% positive.

 

Go around, read some feedback - I'm not the only one complaining injuries have gotten more frequent and besides, it's only one of many other complaints.

 

I have the exact standard one should expect from a game we buy every year, market ourselves and support the hell out of. Any company in the world dreams of customers like SI has, that will willingly go out of their way to even test the game before it's ready.

 

On FM growing - a 3% growth on a possible 5% is still a loss, but this is not something I can argue. I hope I'm not just voicing my own complaint here, but if I am, so be it, I guess I'll have to drop off the FM train and see it roll merilly on its way.

Correaltion doesnt equal casulation. Simply because 'more' people complain about injuries, doesnt mean there are more injuries in the game itself. We get more and more people playing FM, and to be quite honest a lot of people dont have enough knowledge on how football works and what a 'normal' amount of 'injuries'  is. The average person playing FM is not the one who has enough knowledge on football to judge over how realistic the game is. If you want to prove otherwise, come up with some proof, you are simply ignoring and twisting your point and I dont see any concrete stats and proof to back up your statements.