Do Players complain to much when not played?

[murph2010]

This has always been pretty annoying but I'm finding players complain about not playing way too often in FM 2017.

Like I don't play someone for 2 games and he starts complaining.

I was 5 games into my first season and I already had 4 players complain for not playing enough, and I thought I was rotating pretty well.

 

Anyone else feel this?

[gunner86]

I'm the opposite, I'm in January first season, and I've only had 2 complaints about game time so far - and thats for 2 strikers that have hardly played

[MDK]

25 minutes ago, murph2010 said:

This has always been pretty annoying but I'm finding players complain about not playing way too often in FM 2017.

Like I don't play someone for 2 games and he starts complaining.

I was 5 games into my first season and I already had 4 players complain for not playing enough, and I thought I was rotating pretty well.

 

Anyone else feel this?

Not had that problem because my players get injured so often that squad rotation is the only thing I can do.

[martplfc1]

Not had many complaining about first team football yet, but a few of the complaints I have had seem a bit unrealistic:

Dejan Lovren wants to play in a better league and Coutinho wants to move to Spurs. Doubt either would be true irl.

[murph2010]

1 minute ago, martplfc1 said:

Not had many complaining about first team football yet, but a few of the complaints I have had seem a bit unrealistic:

Dejan Lovren wants to play in a better league and Coutinho wants to move to Spurs. Doubt either would be true irl.

yeah the coutinho to spurs thing pissed me off..

[martplfc1]

I just promised he could leave if I don't qualify for CL, and he was ok. Just hope I do now!

[zigaliro]

Yup, 9 games and my player who only played 1 game and 2 as subs is already complaining.

[StridentCorn90]

9 hours ago, murph2010 said:

This has always been pretty annoying but I'm finding players complain about not playing way too often in FM 2017.

Like I don't play someone for 2 games and he starts complaining.

I was 5 games into my first season and I already had 4 players complain for not playing enough, and I thought I was rotating pretty well.

 

Anyone else feel this?

Depends what's in their contract and promises you make. Often players with backup status in their contract don't really complain for me. If their contract says first team, then they expect to be making the match day squad every time pretty much. So they get angry quicker if you don't play them. 

[phnompenhandy]

Yeh, but my man-management style sorts this one out. If they complain - about playing, training or whatever, they get kicked out. That way I ensure I have a highly professional squad.

[epic_rage]

That is what your manager atribute called "discipline" is for. Higher it is, less whining from players. There are also other factors, such as players squad role in his contract, promises and player reputation compared to club, a superstar in Hull will obviosly want to play more.

Usually people make mistake with signings by offering players first team or key player status undeservedly  just so they could offer bigger wages to that player to sign him. Dont do that.

[tmason122]

There were similar complaints on FM16. In my experience though, complaints are always highest in the first season you take over a club. Once you settle your squad, get rid of the deadwood and start winning, complaints usually reduce. 

[HUNT3R]

It's a conversation. The news items says that the player wants to discuss this with you. Keep in mind also, that at the start of the game the transfer window is open, so it's a great time to find out where things stand.

In general, users treat Rotation players as backups when Rotation players will expect around 50-60% of league starts.

[hluraven]

I would expect far more complaints, it is way too easy to keep most players happy, and too easy to placate with the conversations when they finally do want one.

[enigmatic]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

It's a conversation. The news items says that the player wants to discuss this with you. Keep in mind also, that at the start of the game the transfer window is open, so it's a great time to find out where things stand.

In general, users treat Rotation players as backups when Rotation players will expect around 50-60% of league starts.

Isn't that problem partly SI's for making rotation players' expectations a bit high though? Pretty sure that most people in football would consider the likes of Herrera, Fellaini and Young or Andy King, Ulloa and Schlupp to have been used in a squad rotation system last season, but they were comfortably short of 50% league starts. Most major clubs' rotation systems depend on having players like that who neither expect to play half the games nor are limited enough compared with the first team to only be only considered in selection crises or against very weak opponents. Of course, I'm not suggesting that nobody in their situation would ever complain or that FM managers don't tend to hoard players that could easily be the first name on the team sheet at other big clubs, but if players are ambitious enough to want to start in the league 60% of the time they're fit and think the cup appearances don't count, surely that's because they're angling for "first team" status and think being rotated is holding them back, not because you're not honouring your commitment to treat them as squad rotation players.

"Backup" as a designation is a bit too broad if it's supposed to be the appropriate one for everyone from your third choice keeper only there as emergency cover to people who start over a third of league games and many more cup games and are quite possibly highly-prized for particular abilities needed in particular games (like being your side's only natural DM or fast counter-attacker or "super-sub" goalpoacher), especially since the game doesn't even seem to use it as a squad status that often.

 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, enigmatic said:

Isn't that problem partly SI's for making rotation players' expectations a bit high though? Pretty sure that most people in football would consider the likes of Herrera, Fellaini and Young or Andy King, Ulloa and Schlupp to have been used in a squad rotation system last season, but they were comfortably short of 50% league starts. Most major clubs' rotation systems depend on having players like that who neither expect to play half the games nor are limited enough compared with the first team to only be only considered in selection crises or against very weak opponents. Of course, I'm not suggesting that nobody in their situation would ever complain or that FM managers don't tend to hoard players that could easily be the first name on the team sheet at other big clubs, but if players are ambitious enough to want to start in the league 60% of the time they're fit and think the cup appearances don't count, surely that's because they're angling for "first team" status and think being rotated is holding them back, not because you're not honouring your commitment to treat them as squad rotation players.

"Backup" as a designation is a bit too broad if it's supposed to be the appropriate one for everyone from your third choice keeper only there as emergency cover to people who start over a third of league games and many more cup games and are quite possibly highly-prized for particular abilities needed in particular games (like being your side's only natural DM or fast counter-attacker or "super-sub" goalpoacher), especially since the game doesn't even seem to use it as a squad status that often.

 

Squad rotation players will expect to be in the squad rotation. Cup games do count, but are lower in terms of importance compared to the league, whereas CL games are obviously much more important.

You mention the real life players, but they will have had chats with their managers too. Just because they played less than they should have IRL or would want, doesn't mean they kept quiet.

[Pingdinho]

I wonder if it is not so much that players want to chat about it, but rather their reactions can appear to be a bit extreme and childish, and sometimes the options you have to pick from in response aren't as rich or varied as perhaps they could be.

Players want to play, so I think it's fine for them to say 'hey boss, why won't you pick me?' as even the most professional player will want to know why they are not playing and what they can do about it. However, the conversation can turn a bit too suddenly in the direction of 'well in that case, I want to leave and I can't believe how appallingly you have treated me and expect a squad revolt in the near future, and by the way I'm going to talk to the media, and be careful that this doll doesn't hit you after I've thrown it out my pram' (exaggeration for comic effect ).

To be fair, I'm not sure if this has changed for FM17 as I've not played it yet.

In FM16 I found that I could generally manage this ok if the first time I said player X is playing too well in your position (provided that was true, which it usually was) and the player would more often than not just say, 'fair enough' and drop it. After that I would just call their bluff and say 'ok, I'll sell you for the good of your career'. Often players would back down but if they didn't then that told me that they weren't the right personality to fit the squad so I didn't mind moving them on so much. After all, I wasn't playing them anyway so no loss right?

[enigmatic]

39 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Squad rotation players will expect to be in the squad rotation. Cup games do count, but are lower in terms of importance compared to the league, whereas CL games are obviously much more important.

You mention the real life players, but they will have had chats with their managers too. Just because they played less than they should have IRL or would want, doesn't mean they kept quiet.

I suspect they had chats of that nature every week.

In real life managers had a lot more options to be proactive and specific about explaining where, when and why they will play than a big unanticipated player-initiated chat, potentially followed by a "promise" to give an unspecified number of starts which the player will be furious about if you don't deliver or a loan/transfer request.

Obviously FM doesn't reach that level of detail in simulating day-to-day interaction and would probably get tedious if it did, but it's pretty obvious that many players are relatively easily satisfied with a lot less than 50% starts in a rotation system despite not being "backup", and that major clubs' rotation systems IRL rely on that being the case. I'd expect a system in which you can't do things as simple as explain to players that they'll only play in games where you're deploying a front two or are being saved for the big games where their defensive shield is crucial to be more sympathetic rather than less. 

 

[CarltonBanks]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Squad rotation players will expect to be in the squad rotation. Cup games do count, but are lower in terms of importance compared to the league, whereas CL games are obviously much more important.

You mention the real life players, but they will have had chats with their managers too. Just because they played less than they should have IRL or would want, doesn't mean they kept quiet.

Going off of what you've posted in this topic, by those guidelines, real world teams have a huge number of backups and a tiny number of rotation players. 

 

And something like Schweinstager at United, in FM 100% chance the team is ripped apart and the manager is sacked.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, CarltonBanks said:

Going off of what you've posted in this topic, by those guidelines, real world teams have a huge number of backups and a tiny number of rotation players. 

 

And something like Schweinstager at United, in FM 100% chance the team is ripped apart and the manager is sacked.

Schweinsteiger will definitely have had talks about first team football. I doubt he's happy as it is. In FM I've had many such cases and not once was I sacked.

[noikeee]

16 hours ago, martplfc1 said:

Not had many complaining about first team football yet, but a few of the complaints I have had seem a bit unrealistic:

Dejan Lovren wants to play in a better league and Coutinho wants to move to Spurs. Doubt either would be true irl.

That's a bug on Lovren IMO. Where's he going to move to as a "bigger league", Spain? That really shouldn't happen under one of the highest reputation leagues in the world. I'd open a thread on the bugs forum.

As for Coutinho, that also sounds unrealistic but depends on what's your position and what's Spurs. If you're having a dismal season and Spurs are leading the table, it's a little more understandable. I think that might be a case of being on the CL (Spurs) vs not being on the CL (Liverpool), overvalued as a factor by the game.

[CarltonBanks]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

Schweinsteiger will definitely have had talks about first team football. I doubt he's happy as it is. In FM I've had many such cases and not once was I sacked.

Of course he's had talks. He was told no and now he's just sitting waiting to leave. 

 

Is sitting quietly and waiting to leave even possible in FM?

[Matshit]

Depends on the player. Some keep their frustration to themself, some take it out on everyone. Just like in real life.

[number9shirt]

At 2 different clubs in the first season before the end of september i've had players complaining about the lack of game time.

[HUNT3R]

50 minutes ago, CarltonBanks said:

Of course he's had talks. He was told no and now he's just sitting waiting to leave. 

 

Is sitting quietly and waiting to leave even possible in FM?

Yes.

[puffascruffowitz]

I've had 2 instances already (Nov. 2016 in game), but I think they were perfectly reasonable requests. It seems though that the same is true as last year where you can just say "So and so is in the form of his life, you'll have to wait your turn". It has a very high success rate with them usually saying "yes, I see your point, I'll bide my time"

[Bigpapa42]

I was/am hoping this dynamic was toned down a bit in 17 as opposed to the way it functioned in 16. I realize it should happen at times, and that there are a lot of factors in play (the player personality, your manager stats, reputation, etc). But on FM16 not that long ago, I had multiple 18 year old Hot Prospects who were already playing with relative frequency asking for more playing time. He had really high Professionalism too. By the end of the promise period, I had started him in 8 of the last 12 matches and he was still only showing as "yellow", then dropped the concern.

FM16 just felt a bit.... glitchy at times in regard to player interactions, especially stuff like playing time demands. Maybe it was just partly because you only have a few options on how to answer them.

[mimland]

I'm fine with the rotation players and above whining, but less than halfway into the first season I had backups and hot prospects whining about not getting played enough.

[HUNT3R]

8 hours ago, mimland said:

I'm fine with the rotation players and above whining, but less than halfway into the first season I had backups and hot prospects whining about not getting played enough.

And what did they ask? Those players usually either say "I know I'm not good enough but I want to play, so I might need to move on" or "I need to go on loan to get some games".