What is Key Pass?

[moolochicken]

I have just finished a season in FM 17 with one of my players getting 94 key passes in the league, with the AI usually getting 30-ish in all major leagues. I wanted to know which part of my game is so strong that the number would be 3 times of the AI teams, but have no idea what is key pass.

 

What I have observed (based on the Analysis tap in game) is:

- It is usually a pass in the attacking process which unlocks another player to a good position, but usually not a shooting opportunity

- Assists are usually not key pass (can't say for 100% sure), even if it is a really good pass and crafts out a very good opportunity. 

- Crosses, including free kicks, are not key pass

 

So what is a key pass? Is the system currently inaccurate like the clear-cut-chances count?

Edited October 30, 2016 by moolochicken

[Buckley0002]

Second Assist/Key Pass. A pass/cross that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, for example a corner or free-kick to a player who then assists an attempt, a chance-creating through ball or cross into a dangerous position

[eple]

Definitions differ from where you look it up... but I would say in the current version key passes are not counted accurately. I raised it quite a while ago and it's been raised after the public beta. Compared to RL-stats, key passes in the game is very low right now. Players rarely have above 1 pr game, whereas RL-stats will show plenty of players above 2 pr game

Some assists are key, some are not and in the ME it's hard to tell the difference between those that are counted and those that are not.

Some crosses are key, some are not, and again, it's difficult to tell why.

The only thing that consistently seem to be counted as key are through passes -> passes behind the defence and between fb-cb or cb-cb

Most passes that lead to goal scoring chances or crossing/passing opportunities to create chances are not counted as key, unless they are through passes

[Jimbokav1971]

The key pass stat is flawed. It's flawed to such an extent that SI are unable to even provide their own definition of what a key pass is, (and isn't), because it's not accurately replicated within the game. 

You are best off completely ignoring it. 

[moolochicken]

13 hours ago, eple said:

Definitions differ from where you look it up... but I would say in the current version key passes are not counted accurately. I raised it quite a while ago and it's been raised after the public beta. Compared to RL-stats, key passes in the game is very low right now. Players rarely have above 1 pr game, whereas RL-stats will show plenty of players above 2 pr game

Some assists are key, some are not and in the ME it's hard to tell the difference between those that are counted and those that are not.

Some crosses are key, some are not, and again, it's difficult to tell why.

The only thing that consistently seem to be counted as key are through passes -> passes behind the defence and between fb-cb or cb-cb

Most passes that lead to goal scoring chances or crossing/passing opportunities to create chances are not counted as key, unless they are through passes

Is that experience from 16 or 17? As i remembered I used a similar tactic from 16 but did not get those numbers. I got my Chrsitan Eriksen to get 94 Key Passes in 30 league games , averaging 3 per game, so something is happening?

10 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

The key pass stat is flawed. It's flawed to such an extent that SI are unable to even provide their own definition of what a key pass is, (and isn't), because it's not accurately replicated within the game. 

You are best off completely ignoring it. 

That is quite sad because it is one of the 10 stats highlighted in player overview tab of the league. If it is true then it is the only one that is useless in those 10 stat.

[Jimbokav1971]

I've asked and asked and asked. 

There was a thread where some of the SI guys tried and failed to answer the question, but I can no longer find the thread.

[eple]

16 minutes ago, moolochicken said:

Is that experience from 16 or 17? As i remembered I used a similar tactic from 16 but did not get those numbers. I got my Chrsitan Eriksen to get 94 Key Passes in 30 league games , averaging 3 per game, so something is happening?

FM17.  I'm basing it mostly on what I've seen the AI and my team do. Checking the stats in my current game it's the same.

FM16 had the opposite problem, too many key passes.

3 pr game seems like a realistic number for C. Eriksen. Last season he had 3.3 according to Whoscored.com. 

You can find out what's going on by going into the analysis tab in a match. Click 'Players' and then 'Passes' - Click the key pass box for the relevant player. You can click each individual pass to see what they where.

[moolochicken]

15 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I've asked and asked and asked. 

 

9 minutes ago, eple said:

FM17.  I'm basing it mostly on what I've seen the AI and my team do. Checking the stats in my current game it's the same.

FM16 had the opposite problem, too many key passes.

3 pr game seems like a realistic number for C. Eriksen. Last season he had 3.3 according to Whoscored.com. 

You can find out what's going on by going into the analysis tab in a match. Click 'Players' and then 'Passes' - Click the key pass box for the relevant player. You can click each individual pass to see what they where.

eple is right. I just checked my 16 save and Eriksen is getting 274 key passes a season lol. Other players a the top of the table are also getting 200-ish.

So if the number of key passes went down from FM16's 200 to FM17's  30/40, it means that they changed the counts for it, and probably the definition of it. I think that is good news, but if they don't tell me what is the definition of it, I can't exploit it. Or can I find the definition in the game hidden somewhere?

[inacion]

A key pass is a pass that was decisive to create a dangerous move. For example a long pass received by a wide open player, creating serious problems to opposition.

[Jimbokav1971]

There has never been an official SI definition as far as I'm aware, (at least not recently anyway).

If they have changed it then great, and maybe there will be a definition somewhere within the full game and support when it comes out. 

[Jimbokav1971]

47 minutes ago, moolochicken said:

 

eple is right. I just checked my 16 save and Eriksen is getting 274 key passes a season lol. Other players a the top of the table are also getting 200-ish.

So if the number of key passes went down from FM16's 200 to FM17's  30/40, it means that they changed the counts for it, and probably the definition of it. I think that is good news, but if they don't tell me what is the definition of it, I can't exploit it. Or can I find the definition in the game hidden somewhere?

With respect, it doesn't mean that at all. 

It's a different ME so effectively a different game. You can't assume that they have "probably changed the definition" of key passes just 

[Jimbokav1971]

 

[sirgiorgio]

My personal definition of key pass is a quasi-assist. For instance, if my cross finds the striker, and the striker scores, it's an assist. If the striker doesn't score, it's a key pass. Or, a key pass becomes an assist when the intended target of the pass scores. I don't know whether or not this is the official definition, but it makes sense to me.

[Arkim]

This is again another reason (among many others) why SI need to provide a full game manual. There are games of equal complexity with regards to game mechanics (ex. Civilization series) that have well-detailed game manuals from the developers and to this day, I still find it quite odd that a game such as as FM does not come with a manual that provides a thorough explanation of all the in-game mechanics and instructions how to play.

It would be an incredible addition to the series (seriously) and would cover a ton of questions that I am sure so many players have including myself. It's quite evident by this thread. Guessing what something means and how it plays out shouldn't be a part of the sticker price in my opinion.

 

Edit: And no, the online "manual" currently available on their website isn't sufficient, obviously.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Arkim

[inacion]

20 minutes ago, sirgiorgio said:

My personal definition of key pass is a quasi-assist. For instance, if my cross finds the striker, and the striker scores, it's an assist. If the striker doesn't score, it's a key pass. Or, a key pass becomes an assist when the intended target of the pass scores. I don't know whether or not this is the official definition, but it makes sense to me.

If a cross finds a striker is also a completed cross

[Jimbokav1971]

40 minutes ago, sirgiorgio said:

My personal definition of key pass is a quasi-assist. For instance, if my cross finds the striker, and the striker scores, it's an assist. If the striker doesn't score, it's a key pass. Or, a key pass becomes an assist when the intended target of the pass scores. I don't know whether or not this is the official definition, but it makes sense to me.

Fortunately/unfortunately, in FM a pass can both a key pass and an assist. 

[Nic Madden]

Thank you for reporting on the forums,

I actually have read through eple's posts in the Private Beta Forum regarding this. SI Staff have replied to eple directly in that particular thread. This is still under review internally.

We have made changes to this area of the game from the previous version and we are still looking to make improvements for the future. However, I hope you understand that this is a subjective area of the game and a subjective stat overall.

Whilst you may feel it is important to know the definition of a Key Pass, it is important to note that this is a very statistical measure and that is also driven by opinions, like most things in football. A key pass is not as black and white as you may think. A key pass is something that needs to be measured against time, space, pressure and difficulty of the execution of the pass. Given the number of variables that this is measured against, I hope you can appreciate it is about getting the correct balance and implementing this the best way in terms of code.

My suggestion would be to open a thread in the Match Engine Forum, as eple did on the private beta and simply upload the times and pkms of the key passes that were or were not reported that you believe are wrongly recorded. This way, you can help balance this try to balance this with us.

Cheers,

Nic

[Sourav B]

On 31/10/2016 at 18:05, eple said:

FM17.  I'm basing it mostly on what I've seen the AI and my team do. Checking the stats in my current game it's the same.

FM16 had the opposite problem, too many key passes.

3 pr game seems like a realistic number for C. Eriksen. Last season he had 3.3 according to Whoscored.com. 

You can find out what's going on by going into the analysis tab in a match. Click 'Players' and then 'Passes' - Click the key pass box for the relevant player. You can click each individual pass to see what they where.

FM16 is closer to real life stats but I think in FM17 other than cross-pass confusion key passes are highlighted perfectly n imo better. In my view a key pass should be the one which unlocks at least a half chance which is portrayed perfectly in FM17.