Lone strikers

[nicobile]

Hi, in fm16 and now fm17 im having a big problem getting my striker to perform the way i like. My usual tactic is similar to Peps Barcelona possession football and if i can, i use the same tactic structure. In the 3 saves i had between the two games, i was able to make my striker score a lot of goals, but he didnt play that well, if he doesnt score, his rating is below 6.6 and even scoring he might just have 7.0. He gains possession rarely and the way he influence the game is solely with goals. Yes, im complaining while my player scores lots of goals, but because i think im doing something wrong, or at least that i could do something better. I want to understand how to best utilise a striker and what role to choose.

I ll give you guys as example the save im currently at in fm17. Im playing Inter, im half way to the second season (first season i came second just two points shy of Juve). Last season i bang up a lot of goals (maybe too much) and now a more sensible amount. My players are almost all the same, i only bought Krannevitter and Musacchio (but after a couple of games he fractured his leg) for the second season. As i said, i play the same 4-1-2-2-1 than Barca, with control mentality, flexible shape and 4 team instructions: play out of defense, work ball into box, retain possession, and closing down more. My offensive minded players have this roles: Kongdobia BBM, Mario AP At, Gabriel Barbosa IF At (or Candreva W Su), Perisic IF Su and Icardi. He should play as an advance forward, but i always think that that would put him too high in the pitch and wont touch enough balls. So i tried using him as a complete forward support. 

My issue is there, as i dont see much difference in Advance Forward and complete forward support. For example last match we played against the weakest team in Serie A and thru all game he just have 5 passes and received only 13. So, its not even an issue that he is wasting the chances the team creates for him, they are not even giving him the ball. 

I tend to have this problem with strikers that are natural Advance Forwards, which i dont think are the best for my way of playing football. I would normally buy a player that suits my tactic a little more, but Icardi is so damn good and i also like him, so im trying my best to get him to perform in a better and more meaningful way. 

My questions for you guys would be how would you use him in a control tactic and normally what role do you play a lone striker so he isnt so "lonely" up the pitch.

THanks in advance!

[noikeee]

9 minutes ago, nicobile said:

My issue is there, as i dont see much difference in Advance Forward and complete forward support. For example last match we played against the weakest team in Serie A and thru all game he just have 5 passes and received only 13. So, its not even an issue that he is wasting the chances the team creates for him, they are not even giving him the ball. 

What PPMs does have? Does he have "tries to break offside trap", by any chance? That would make him play a lot like an advanced forward/poacher regardless of role.

Quote

I tend to have this problem with strikers that are natural Advance Forwards, which i dont think are the best for my way of playing football. I would normally buy a player that suits my tactic a little more, but Icardi is so damn good and i also like him, so im trying my best to get him to perform in a better and more meaningful way. 

My questions for you guys would be how would you use him in a control tactic and normally what role do you play a lone striker so he isnt so "lonely" up the pitch.

CF/S is fine for a lone forward. Either that or false 9 if you want him to link up better but he'll score less (with the IFs getting the burden of scoring goals).

To be honest, there just isn't a very obvious solution to this and it's entirely realistic. Your options are:

1 - switch to a tactical system that uses Icardi better as advanced forward or poacher or CF/A. This would probably mean another striker next to him to link up with.

2 - sell/drop Icardi (or move him into another position like IF, though I find it hard to believe that's a perfect fit either) and get a player that's better suited for dropping deep and linking up play

3 - keeping on doing what you're doing, which is to play a player in a role that doesn't quite suit him, but he's too good to be dropped so it's still a decent compromise as he still performs alright.

 

This is a good simulation of what real life managers go through with similarly misfitting players for their philosophy...

[cregan]

As noikeee says, PPMs make a huge difference; you can't really persuade an offside-trap-breaking poacher to play target man any more than you can have a "plays with back to goal" striker running off the shoulder of the last man.

I tend to fall back on the DLF(s) as a go-to lone striker role barring reason to do otherwise, but it does depend on players, strategy, etc.

[nicobile]

I didnt say it was something the game was doing wrong, i actually say i was probably making a mistake.

Icardi has moves into channel and beat offside trap as PPM.

Of the 3 options you give, i wont sell Icardi if he doesnt press me to do it, as i really think he is extremely good. I kinda have a great set up in all the rest of my players to play the way i am, so i guess the best option is still to keep things as they are right now, but i would still like to know if i could make same changes to play a little better. Maybe not something with his role but his teammates. 

Thanks for the replies!

 

[sporadicsmiles]

You could train him as a CF or a DLF so those related stats increase and he is better able to play in that roll. I am not sure how well that works (I do it all the time, but I have never checked the efficacy). In principal if he has the correct attributes to be a CF, he will play well as a CF.

Another option is to check his PPMS. Remove any of them that are not useful - tries to beat offside trap, for example - which will make him play further forward and is detrimental to how you want to play. You can also add some of the more useful ones - comes deep to get ball, as another example - to try to change how he plays. It may not work, and it will take time, but it may be worth the effort if you are set on keeping him.

As mentioned above, you can also just carry on playing him, if he is scoring and playing well. It is detrimental to your system, but football is ultimately about winning, and being flexible enough to incorporate a different player who is too good to ignore will make you a better manager.

Finally, you can sell him. This is similar to Ibra and Barca. A wonderful player who did not truly fit into that system, and even though he played well he was shipped out and replaced with a more suitable player. Clearly this is not an ideal situation, because Icardi is very good. On the flip side, you will probably be able to get a high fee for him, so if you have identified a perfect replacement, then you should have little problem getting him. 

Personally, I will always try to alter my approach slightly if a player demands it. For example I often try to use attacking fullbacks to supply width and either play narrow or have IFs on the wings. However, if I have a player who is just a great winger, I will play him as such and try to modify slightly how we are set up to take advantage of that. This is kinda how Ferguson worked at Man Utd. He would play a system to get the best from his players.

[Chip]

As noikeee said, since Ivardi has "tries to beat offside trap" PPM he's gonna struggle to come deep to receive the ball. Besting the offside trap, to me, makes me think of him constantly playing on the last man looking for balls through the defence. 

My suggestion would be to leave the tactic the way it is because it's working and you're getting goals out of him but when you sell him (which I'm assuming you will eventually when someone offers big bucks) you might need to change your tactical style for the player who replaces him. 

Other options are putting a striker alongside him but that means that player is going to receive all the passes and Icarus is probably still going to play the same way. 

Good luck

[nicobile]

Thanks for the replies.

Im training him since day one as a complete forward, mainly because i knew that the role that would suit my tactic the best and i wanted his vision to improve a little at least. 

As you, i try to make a tactic that suits my players, and then i start slowly taking it to a control/attacking mentality as thats how i think football is more enjoyable. With this Inter save, what i did was look at strengths and weaknesses in the roster, and saw that that i could make a starting 11 really orientated to control and using my prefer formation. So i went with it, even knowing that i would not  be able to make my best player play his best. As during the first season we played extremely well in almost all season (there were just two stretches of a few games that we couldnt get a result but still played well, just didnt find the goals) i decided to put myself a goal of making Icardi play a little better and take him into the creation of plays. wasnt really a success, tho this season his assist went up a notch. 

I do have to say, that i was offer 107 million by OP Arsenal last day of winter transfer window on the first season. As i didnt have any time to sort a quality replacement i said no (we were fighting for top spot with Juve at the time). I do not regret it, but it would have solve a lot of problems xD