pauly15 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I'm enjoying FM17. Scouting & staff in general, as well as the AI in the transfer market (apart from releasing top quality players) are all much improved from previous versions. One thing I don't like is that by selecting certain 'roles' for our players on the pitch, we're restricted into what instructions we can give them. For example, I'd like to be able to instruct a CB to make forward runs (if I play 3 at the back for example). I'd like to be able to adjust creative freedom individually without having to click "get creative" all the time. I'd like to be able to play an advanced playmaker who doesn't dribble or whatever... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The problem here is you're selecting specialist roles, and then looking for that role to encompass something that it shouldn't. If you really want an AP to be able to dribble less, set up a vanilla central/attacking midfielder and give him all the roles of an AP without the 'dribble more' instruction. Job done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly15 Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Hi Dave, The issue with that is that it adjusts the players position slightly on the pitch and (presumably) their "mentality". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, pauly15 said: Hi Dave, The issue with that is that it adjusts the players position slightly on the pitch and (presumably) their "mentality". Adjusting the player instructions compensates for that, for all the difference it would make anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly15 Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 I agree that's a minor one but question why we need to be restricted at all? It's different with CB's where there is no setting you can ask them to make forward runs with... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Just now, pauly15 said: I agree that's a minor one but question why we need to be restricted at all? You're restricted because it is a set role. In the case of an AP, a specialist role too. The general roles will have many more options open/available to tweak. The CBs point is one that I think everyone agrees with though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted November 2, 2016 Administrators Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 hour ago, pauly15 said: I'm enjoying FM17. Scouting & staff in general, as well as the AI in the transfer market (apart from releasing top quality players) are all much improved from previous versions. One thing I don't like is that by selecting certain 'roles' for our players on the pitch, we're restricted into what instructions we can give them. For example, I'd like to be able to instruct a CB to make forward runs (if I play 3 at the back for example). I'd like to be able to adjust creative freedom individually without having to click "get creative" all the time. I'd like to be able to play an advanced playmaker who doesn't dribble or whatever... Ball playing defender is probably the most suited to what you'd like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly15 Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Hi Neil, I understand that however it's always a compromise isn't it. If I pick ball playing defender I necessarily have to pick "plays more risky passes", which isn't necessarily what I want... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 A crucial difference between the Advanced Playmaker and a vanilla CM(A) with increased risky passes and reduced closing down is that your side is supposed to pass the ball more to the Advanced Playmaker than non-specialist players taking up the same positions. I understand some of the specialist role choices are forced because anything else would be illogical (if someone stays wider they're not an inside forward, and a ball-winning central midfielder who doesn't hold their position is definitely not acting in a purely defensive capacity) but I can't see any logical reason why somebody can't fulfil an advanced playmaking role for their side whilst dribbling relatively infrequently or (particularly) shooting a bit more often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1111 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Some of the restrictions are frustrating and pointless . A supposedly generic role like DM Support has tackle harder locked in so they rack up cards. DFs and Poachers having less risky passes fixed means they often choose not to play obvious simple through balls that any other striker role would play. CWBs, which could be one of the most interesting, varied and unique roles, are just limited to being one dimensional run to byline/cross machines because they have everything is locked in. And there are no customisable roles for AMR/L when a simple Wide Attacking Midfielder role would do the job.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 6 hours ago, enigmatic said: A crucial difference between the Advanced Playmaker and a vanilla CM(A) with increased risky passes and reduced closing down is that your side is supposed to pass the ball more to the Advanced Playmaker than non-specialist players taking up the same positions. I understand some of the specialist role choices are forced because anything else would be illogical (if someone stays wider they're not an inside forward, and a ball-winning central midfielder who doesn't hold their position is definitely not acting in a purely defensive capacity) but I can't see any logical reason why somebody can't fulfil an advanced playmaking role for their side whilst dribbling relatively infrequently or (particularly) shooting a bit more often. I'm assuming the OP is talking about an AP/A. If you read the description of an AP/A, it specifically mentions getting the ball and running at the defence, looking to create chances or shoot. Change his dribbling and you're altering something which is at the core of the role. In other words, he won't be an AP/A anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 6 hours ago, s1111 said: Some of the restrictions are frustrating and pointless . A supposedly generic role like DM Support has tackle harder locked in so they rack up cards. DFs and Poachers having less risky passes fixed means they often choose not to play obvious simple through balls that any other striker role would play. CWBs, which could be one of the most interesting, varied and unique roles, are just limited to being one dimensional run to byline/cross machines because they have everything is locked in. And there are no customisable roles for AMR/L when a simple Wide Attacking Midfielder role would do the job.... If I were you, I'd actually report the DM problem. General roles should be open enough to tweak most instructions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehouse Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I just hate that you removed width instructions for CM role. I could set central winger easily with dribble wide or what was that PI called. It's a shame it isn't included this year. I agree though that you can't take roaming/advanced playmaker and make them dribble less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I think the whole idea of 'fixed' roles needs to be looked at over time. I doubt Klopp says to Coutinho - you're an AP/A and as such you must do x y and z. In addition to that I would like you to 'sit narrower' or whatever. We'd have to get into the realms of hyper-realism to emulate real life tactical discussions though, which I don't think any computer is capable of yet. It can be frustrating but it's as good as it can be I think for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 41 minutes ago, martplfc1 said: I think the whole idea of 'fixed' roles needs to be looked at over time. I doubt Klopp says to Coutinho - you're an AP/A and as such you must do x y and z. In addition to that I would like you to 'sit narrower' or whatever. We'd have to get into the realms of hyper-realism to emulate real life tactical discussions though, which I don't think any computer is capable of yet. It can be frustrating but it's as good as it can be I think for now. Role names are just that - names. Don't get caught up with it, because it's the description and instructions that matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenzar Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 What I would like to see is being able to be very hard on a player, either via team talk or player conversation, if they play against their instructions frequently. "I told you not to take shots so often. I am very disappointed that you failed to listen." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyboy89 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, martplfc1 said: I think the whole idea of 'fixed' roles needs to be looked at over time. I doubt Klopp says to Coutinho - you're an AP/A and as such you must do x y and z. In addition to that I would like you to 'sit narrower' or whatever. We'd have to get into the realms of hyper-realism to emulate real life tactical discussions though, which I don't think any computer is capable of yet. It can be frustrating but it's as good as it can be I think for now. Well of course he doesn't. But this is a computer game. Player roles have been simplified for us to make an informed decision on how we would like a player to play, in a manner that we all understand, and in a manner that doesn't have us sitting for hours trying to sort out 'roles'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artin Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I wish there was a non-specialist role for every position. That way, we can *really* customize our tactic/formation! The only 3 non-specialist roles we have are Wide Midfielder, Central Midfielder, and Attacking Midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Mattyboy89 said: Well of course he doesn't. But this is a computer game. Player roles have been simplified for us to make an informed decision on how we would like a player to play, in a manner that we all understand, and in a manner that doesn't have us sitting for hours trying to sort out 'roles'. That's what I said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingdinho Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Mattyboy89 said: Well of course he doesn't. But this is a computer game. Player roles have been simplified for us to make an informed decision on how we would like a player to play, in a manner that we all understand, and in a manner that doesn't have us sitting for hours trying to sort out 'roles'. It also provides a more level playing field with the AI. I'd suggest that highly granular customisations and options are much easier for a human to exploit and deal with than for an AI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehouse Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Still waiting for explanation why did width instructions got removed for CM role. (Run wide with ball to be more certain) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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