An effective 4231 with Spurs

[inosensu]

What's up guys! As I used to do with previous FM's, I started a game with Spurs. Their squad's a real treat this year, with an already incredible Dele (a little OP perhaps?) and some great prospects in Edwards, Onomah and Carter-Vickers. With Spurs, I always feel like playing a 4231, as they have some excellent central midfielders (Dier, Dembélé, Wanyama), typical inside forwards (Lamela, Son Heung-Min, Nkoudou) and a perfect playmaker (Eriksen).

The most important thing to me was to get the best out of Christian Eriksen, Dele Alli, and Harry Kane. In previous years, I used to play a 4231 with Eriksen as an advanced playmaker in the AMC slot, Lamela as an IF on the right and an IF or Winger on the left (Chadli, Son). I like to play Control with a Fluid team shape, play a patient possession game, and try to close down the opposition and quickly win the ball when out of possession (cliché, yes). The 4231 suits this style of play, but the attacking football being played is a little predictable in FM, and gets tedious after a while. You'll see the same patterns over and over again, and whilst the attacking play is often impressive, I wanted to try something different this year.

My main reason to try something different: Dele Alli. At the start of the game he's already amazing, and because of his PPM's (runs with ball often, plays one two's, arrives late in opponents' area) I wanted to play him as close to the opponent's goal as possible. Also, with Dier, Wanyama, and Dembélé as possible central midfielders, I didn't want to have Alli as an extra option there. So, Alli in the AMC slot was the most logical choice, but that meant that Eriksen had to move to the left. So I opted for Eriksen as an advanced playmaker on the left and Alli as an attacking midfielder behind Harry Kane. In terms of formation and roles, I ended up with this:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I felt confident playing both Vertonghen and Alderweireld as ball playing defenders. Danny Rose on the left, allowing him the freedom to bomb forward, with Dier as a defending central midfielder covering for him. Walker on the right, a little more conservative, but still inclined to go forward a lot. The DLP (I got Bazoer early on, who did an amazing job) and Eriksen on the left as playmaker outlets. Lamela on the right, who's always delivers an inside forward. Harry Kane up front as a deep-lying forward, and Dele behind him as an AM. I used the following team instructions:
 

 

This resulted in some great football being played. Now, individual efforts weren't always that great. Players struggled maintaining good form, Kane did not score an insane amount of goals (16, but was injured a lot), neither did Alli (12), Lamela (16), Son (19), or anyone for that matter. But as a team, they always delivered. Both Son and Lamela topped the charts for most assists given, and Eriksen did a wonderful job as a playmaker on the left. The Eriksen/Rose dynamic was especially impressive. Alli was great as an AM, although his form did fluctuate quite a bit. To my pleasing, we had lots of possession, often getting 60+ percentages (both home and away), and topping the Premier League chart with 58%. We ended up winning the league pretty comfortably. Below you can see the average positions of the players when in possession. In this case, a home game against Liverpool, which we dominated and won 4-1. As Eriksen moves into the centre midfield (which comes with the role, but exaggerated with PI), Rose advances and basically plays as an attacking winger. 
 

In the end, I was really satisfied with the football that we played. We were a threat via the wings, as well as through the centre, which resulted in a varied style of attacking play that often took opponents (and myself) by surprise. It might be worthwhile to play around with the player roles. For example, the role of the striker has always been a complicated one for me, as the deep-lying forward did not always perform. I am now in my second season, and play Kane as a complete forward on support, which seems to get the best out of him.

I'd love to hear your input, and wanted to share this mainly because I was impressed with FM17 so far, and really enjoyed my first season with Spurs. Cheers!

[thomas_e]

Impressive first season, congrats on the league title! 

I like how you played Eriksen as an advanced forward on the wing, as 9/10 players probably would have put him in the AM position. But obviosuly the Eriksen/Rose partnership really paid off! 

Even though you didn't get 25+ goals out of Kane, 35 goals from Son and Lamela combined is impressive! 

Seems like you have a great team going and really nailed the tactic. Only thing im thinking: how is it working to have both Verthonghen and Alderweireld as ball playing defenders? I prefer to only have one so I can focus my most giftet CB can initiate attacks. Guess that would be Alderweireld in this case? But I might be wrong, might just give your GK more options? And since you don't have play out of defence as a team instructions, it's probably not someting you focus too much on, which makes sense tbh. 

[inosensu]

28 minutes ago, thomas_e said:

Seems like you have a great team going and really nailed the tactic. Only thing im thinking: how is it working to have both Verthonghen and Alderweireld as ball playing defenders? I prefer to only have one so I can focus my most giftet CB can initiate attacks. Guess that would be Alderweireld in this case? But I might be wrong, might just give your GK more options? And since you don't have play out of defence as a team instructions, it's probably not someting you focus too much on, which makes sense tbh. 

Yeah, normally I'd also use just one BPD, but since their both so capable it just didn't feel right to give Vertonghen the role of central defender. Basically, I want them to quickly find a midfielder when they recycle possession, and I don't mind if they take some risk doing it. For this reason I also didn't tick play out of defense; they already pass short, and moreover Alderweireld's long range passes PPM can really make a difference. 

[edgar555]

I used a similar set up with Spurs (won CL & PL 1st season) with Eriksen off the left. As my season evolved I made some tweaks you might want to consider. 

I dropped the CM/D to DMC as a DM/D. I switched Dele's role to SS to provide more of a goal threat & switched Kane to a CF/S. These two changes in particular got more goals out of both of them. 

[inosensu]

5 hours ago, edgar555 said:

I used a similar set up with Spurs (won CL & PL 1st season) with Eriksen off the left. As my season evolved I made some tweaks you might want to consider. 

I dropped the CM/D to DMC as a DM/D. I switched Dele's role to SS to provide more of a goal threat & switched Kane to a CF/S. These two changes in particular got more goals out of both of them. 

Nicely done. A CF/S does seem to work a lot better, I got Berahino on a free transfer as a backup for Kane, he's killing it at the moment. I'll definitely give the SS role a try!

[Chip]

Great looking tactic and impressive results! I

If it was me I would keep the tactic the way it is but I suppose it depends on what you want out of your players. If you want more goals out of Kane then I think you're going to have to change him to a more offensive role or put more crosses in the box from your wingers. However it's producing results and you've managed to win the league at the first time of asking so nothing is that bad with the tactic, clearly! 

Have you tried Kane as a CF-S? That might still give Alli the chance to pass him in the box but allow Kane to be more offensive and get on the end of a few more goals?

[inosensu]

11 hours ago, Chip said:

Great looking tactic and impressive results! I

If it was me I would keep the tactic the way it is but I suppose it depends on what you want out of your players. If you want more goals out of Kane then I think you're going to have to change him to a more offensive role or put more crosses in the box from your wingers. However it's producing results and you've managed to win the league at the first time of asking so nothing is that bad with the tactic, clearly! 

Have you tried Kane as a CF-S? That might still give Alli the chance to pass him in the box but allow Kane to be more offensive and get on the end of a few more goals?

Lost Kane to an injury, so gave Berahino a chance as CF/S. He did amazing in his first nine matches, then lost his magic a little. But a CF/S role does work a lot better than a DLF/S.

 

[LATB]

I used a 4-1-4-1 with the second four in the AM line. Alli and Eriksen in the middle of the four as shadow striker and AP. Aggressively pressing so I want as many players at the top of the pitch as possible. Won it first year too. 

[reece1973]

Testing out my own version of a 4321 and a few mixed results.

Usually if im losing i will make a change. At home to Chelsea and after 14mins we were 2-0 down and i thought DAMN.

However i took a chance and left it. BOOM won 4-2 hahaha

[vj531]

I'm just at the end of preseason.

And trying to set up 2 formations a 4123 AND 5131 (3 CB). With mixed performances but positive results. 

Im finding it hard setting up set pieces. Trying to figure out what corner/free kick and individual player tactic files marry up to each formation. Very confusing 

All the set piece engine is very poor IMHO 

[vj531]

Also what does "increase support duties" mean

[Time_Consumer]

Did you use any specific PIs? Your results look amazing!

[inosensu]

6 hours ago, vj531 said:

Also what does "increase support duties" mean

It just means increasing the amount of players that you have on support duty in your tactics, instead of attack or defend.

 

5 hours ago, Time_Consumer said:

Did you use any specific PIs? Your results look amazing!

The AML is playing more narrow, the wing backs stay wider, and most of the players up front have shoot less often. Not much else, but depends on who is playing.

[Chip]

Is this still going well @inosensu? Would love an update.

[Andydavies]

Impressive first season. I am intrigued as to how you got the best out of Son? Did you use him on the left in rotation with eriksen and what kind of role, instructions?

making my way through preseason with Spurs and looking for that balance in the attacking positions, definitely going to give your approach a try