4-2-3-1 I'm Lost Again

[EnzoAmata]

Another year of FM and another year of being lost for a while.

I've got some questions - How to mark the long stricken if someone is playing a 4-2-3-1 and what type of front man do you use when you select to play a 4-2-3-1. I'm playing as Arsenal and I'm playing Giroud as a Target Man but more often then not he gets snuffed out by both centre-backs. I'm looking for a more effective way to play a 4-2-3-1. I'd like to hear some of the ways you play against it and also play it yourself.

I also don't seem to know what to do with the two in central midfield. I feel they don't contribute enough to the game. What are your thoughts.

[dankrzyz]

You'll need to post a lot more about your full set up, roles, approach, etc.

 

If you hit the target Giroud up top, who's nearby for him to play in?

 

Personally, a couple attacking midfielders converging in the box and one late runner from midfield could help Giroud. Any player, by himself, versus a couple centerbacks will eventually end in a turnover.

[Chip]

Like @dankrzyz said, you'll need to post a bit more about your set up before anyone can give you a proper hand.

But in terms of what I use against a 4-2-3-1, I use a 4-1-4-1 to make sure the AM is covered and usually marked by my DM.

[EnzoAmata]

I would be playing someone more defensive in CM other than Ramsey, in case someone points out thats where the flaw is...

I want to keep the box of the two 6's and the two CDs so that's why I play them all defensive. I leave the rest of the work to everyone else. I get good service to Giroud but there doesn't seem to ever be enough support. I've tried to play more narrow and Sanchez and Walcott aren't often there to help him. The opposite when I'm playing against a 1 up front. I use Opposition instructions to Closing Down - Always. They seem to just get dragged about, sometimes all 4 close him down, which isn't really what anyone would want. Any thoughts...

[harryleechinyeow]

You are playing a 4231 wide, which is a very attacking top heavy formation, cuz u hv 4 players in advanced starting positions.

Imagine ur defenders hv won the ball back, and made a pass very quickly to Ozil to try and counter and take advantage of the number of players u hv in advanced positions.

What will Ozil do? He RETAINS POSSESSION: a harmless pass side ways to Walcott even though a pass to Giroud may put him in a scoring position. And what will Walcott do with the ball? He holds the ball up to LOOK FOR THE OVERLAP from Bellerin. 

And all that was done in a MUCH LOWER TEMPO. Everyone taking their time with minimal urgency. Ur opponents will hv ample time to recover and get back into their defensive shape. What can Giroud do?

I think ur roles and duties r okay. Maybe u can try the tactic without any TIs. Watch the next match in full, and see if u need those tactics at all.

 

[danfmnoob]

you have 2 CM on CM-D they will both chase the ball! its not the best role for a holding midfielder, you could try and use a DLP-D with a CM-S, this will offer you more than your two at the moment are.  your AMC is a supporting playmaker, from what I have seen so far in this game is  he wont break his neck to get in the box as much as a SS or AM-A,

 

you have Short passing-retain possession-much lower tempo.... you football will be sooooooooo slow and predictable! take off the retain possession and lower tempo. get the ball moving quicker,

 

I would also consider your LB change to a FB-S not auto, you are on a standard mentality and that with an auto role will leave to big a gap down your left flank. (I could be wrong here) but im sure someone else will correct me if I am.

[oviava]

This has been working wonders for me. I switch between counter & standard depending on opponent, score. Other than I've never really done much changing. Ocasionally when I'm playing weaker opposition that don't press that much I'll play from defense. Also, I may choose the focus of attack.

I changed to `Be More Disciplined` when I got decent tactical familiarity with my team - honestly I'm not 100% sure what changes in term of team shape but the results are coming in.

 

As for player specific PI's

- defenders have close down less

- from all midfield ( except DLP) and inside forward / wingers have shoot less often and the CM-A has move into channels. With the right winger keeping to the edge it creates space between him and the striker for the CM to go into ( that's why I put move into channels) that movement creates space for the IF & F9 to operate, you will see defenders moving to cover my attacking CM.

 

 

Results above - one of the weirdest results were a 6-0 win vs man city & 4-0 with chelsea, played standard until 1-0, then switched to counter. That score happened. Also, the 1-0 losses to sunderland & burnley were totally unexpected.

 

Most of the goals come from through balls or crosses - right winger had mosts assists previous season. Most goals I concede are from crosses with very little from through balls or others, so defensively I'm very happy with the shape.

 

P.S. Tactical familiarity is VERY important for this tactic. Also, the strength of this tactic lies in midfield, you want very balanced midfield - look for stats that would fit a BBM, with at least 11 jumping & heading, I want to win balls in midfield to trigger counter attacks - perfect examples are Henderson, Grujic, Lewis Cook, Emre Can, Thiago Maia (CM-S), and  Dele Ali (for the CM-A), Adam Lallana works well too for the CM-A but doesn't offer that much defensively.

[Overmars]

The TM role changes all of your passing decisions and playing style. If I were managing Arsenal in this game, I would buy a better striker and use a less restrictive role for him (CF, DLF, etc.). Alternatively, I would play strikerless, with three attacking midfielders roaming about and playing one-twos.

[borivoje213]

On 14/11/2016 at 11:12, danfmnoob said:

I would also consider your LB change to a FB-S not auto, you are on a standard mentality and that with an auto role will leave to big a gap down your left flank. (I could be wrong here) but im sure someone else will correct me if I am.

I'm of the understanding that auto simply means they'll do whatever duty your mentality is. So if you go defensive/contain they'll be set to defend, attack/overload they'll attack, all else i think they get set to support.

but totally agree with the rest of what you said.

[danfmnoob]

19 minutes ago, borivoje213 said:

I'm of the understanding that auto simply means they'll do whatever duty your mentality is. So if you go defensive/contain they'll be set to defend, attack/overload they'll attack, all else i think they get set to support.

but totally agree with the rest of what you said.

yeah I wasn't 100% here on the old auto role. I personally never use them.

[skrew]

Even if Giroud has enough of the ball, he can't really put anyone into straight attacking position as likely all players will be in less advanced position. Sanchez and Walcott will probably be too wide, and Özil as AP/s won't really support Giroud by getting forward, he won't look to overlap the striker.

In addition you're playing very-very low tempo and careful football, so even if Giroud would trap the ball and try to hold onto it, the central defenders (let alone an anchor man if any) will eat him alive as they'll just simply have enough time to do that. 

Also if the opponent man marks Özil (which is quite likely) your primary source of creativity will be taken out of the game perfectly, your CM-D's won't offer too much in attacking.
If I were you I would :

1. put Özil into AM-R (if he's right footed, dunno), with AP/S (sit narrower, maybe hold up ball). Him and Bellerin will form a beautiful partnership.
2. Change Giroud to be CF/S (I don't know his PPM's, but I assume he won't have 'tries to break offside trap').
3. Put Sanchez into AM-C, with Shadow striker. It's often a bit misinterpreted, don't expect him to be your best scorer by far, but he'll get heavily involved in the play and he's just an inhuman beast (I as a die-hard Chelsea fan say this).
4. Change Ramsey to be DLP-S,RPM, CM-S (maybe even A). Depending your opponent.
5. You'll either have to use Walcott in the AM-L position or get someone there to be a W-S. You'll have Sanchez (and maybe Ramsey advancing or Giroud move back) in central position, crowded enough and no width.
6. Have your LB to be WB-S, WB-D. Gibbs might not be your best option here.