Better to finish 2nd, or bottle the playoffs?

[vanWolfstwinkle]

I'm playing as Barnsley in the Championship and I'm in my first season lying in 2nd plane with 43 games played.

Was wondering if it's better to finish second, get the PL money and most likely get relegated, or intentionally drop down into the playoffs and bottle them to create a good squad which could win the title?

[phnompenhandy]

Look at real life. Clubs in your position with financially astute chairmen take the promotion, invest the PL money, accept relegation and use the money to build a PL-ready squad for promotion in 2 years' time.

[mrtrwsmiff]

Is it that important to land the title if you're getting promoted? The simple fact is that no matter what sort of squad you build in the Championship you're going to have to strengthen regardless whether you go up automatically or 'throw' the play-off as suggested.  You would be mad to forfeit the TV money the Premier League brings.  As in straight jacket type mad too.

 

Someone grab the van!

[vanWolfstwinkle]

I guess I'm a just a Championship title seeking mad man, cheers lads. I'll aim for promotion 

[rinso]

20 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Look at real life. Clubs in your position with financially astute chairmen take the promotion, invest the PL money, accept relegation and use the money to build a PL-ready squad for promotion in 2 years' time.

This. Definitely go for it. No matter what happens in the PL, the financial benefits will help the club massively, from the tv money to gate receipts 

[BuryBlade]

In my Weston Super Mare save, (unofficial effort at the Dafuge challenge) I got an unexpected promotion to the Premiership when I knew my squad was barely capable for the championship level. 

Even though the Premiership season was a disaster - we finished on 11 points in last place - the money gained was worth it. I started the championship season with over £100 million after upgrading everything I could facilities wise. The board gave me £60 million to spend so I built a much stronger squad second time round, get promoted straight back up and survived the premiership this time, with around 50 points. 

Its well worth you going up even if relegation is a likely scenario. All I would suggest is making sure any players you sign you insert a contract clause for a wage drop upon relegation so that if you do get relegated, you're not stuck paying the premiership wages! 

[Dagenham_Dave]

I'm continually impressed at the originality of these thinly veiled bragging threads 

[westy8chimp]

I actually get where you are coming from on two aspects;

firstly -  if you go up in 2nd place - it is unlikely that you will be challenging for a title in season 2 (premier league)... if you stay down you are likely to challenge for a title in season 2.  (if you win the league.. you will get the money etc, just one season later). so if you are interested in number of titles over your career the best route is to stay in the championship. (or apply for jobs of the teams relegated from the premier league this year)

secondly - if you are trying a long career game with one team, not job hopping, then you are more likely to keep your job if you stay in the championship. If you are promoted and then relegated, unfortunately IRL and the game the boards are too quick to forget your success and sack you. If you win the league in season 2 ... you are cementing yourself much more in the club... longer stay, two consecutive successful seasons, a trophy etc... so 1) more time to be prepared and survive in the league 2) if you were relegated you are less likely to be sacked

[facman]

The Championship title is like that random <insert subject here> exam you took all those years ago. Seemed really important at the time, but in the long run it means absolutely nothing to anybody.

Always take the promotion is my motto. If you stay in the Championship there is absolutely no guarantee you will get promoted next year. Maybe the teams just relegated from the Premiership will keep some of their better players and steamroller the division next season, leaving you outside the playoffs and out of a job? Maybe your star player will get injured or decide that he need to play in the Premiership now! Maybe your club will get bought out and you get the chop? Who knows?

Take the promotion, get the money, aim for 40 points!

[bucket]

Hold on didn't Derby sack Paul Clement because they didn't want promotion that year? I think they wanted to wait a year to be more ready for the Prem, or did I dream that?

[Citizen Sandman]

knowing FM no way you'll struggle in the EPL

[gunner86]

14 minutes ago, bucket said:

Hold on didn't Derby sack Paul Clement because they didn't want promotion that year? I think they wanted to wait a year to be more ready for the Prem, or did I dream that?

I think it was more to do with the board didn't agree with his style of play rather than not wanting to get promoted

But my 2 cents is take the promotion. If the title means that much to you, you may get another crack at it in 2 seasons time

Edited November 24, 2016 by gunner86

[tmason122]

2 hours ago, gunner86 said:

I think it was more to do with the board didn't agree with his style of play rather than not wanting to get promoted

But my 2 cents is take the promotion. If the title means that much to you, you may get another crack at it in 2 seasons time

Not the style of play... but the transfer policies. Clement wanted to spend money and bring the talent in to make an immediate charge for the premier league. Derby didn´t want to risk the money and prefered to take a longer term view to developing talent so that when they do (eventually) get promoted they will have a team rather than a collection of indiviudals who came for cash. 

I think they also had concerns about Clement jumping ship as soon as a better job offer came along.

But back on topic... take the promotion. Even if you get relegated it will be worth in the long run.

[Rashidi]

On 23/11/2016 at 12:32, vanWolfstwinkle said:

I'm playing as Barnsley in the Championship and I'm in my first season lying in 2nd plane with 43 games played.

Was wondering if it's better to finish second, get the PL money and most likely get relegated, or intentionally drop down into the playoffs and bottle them to create a good squad which could win the title?

If you had asked me this question ten years ago, I would have said, just stick around long enough to build a squad that can at least finish in mid table in  their first season. Today with all the prize money, It would be silly not to take the promotion.

[vanWolfstwinkle]

Quite ironically, we lost 1-0 at home to Burton with a goal in the 86' minute. Last game of the season, was at Newcastle away and leading 2-0. 82, 86 and 90 were the minutes in which Dionisi scored. We lost 3-2 and finished 3rd. Then in the playoff finals, we lost 1-0 to QPR

[westy8chimp]

On ‎26‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 13:09, vanWolfstwinkle said:

Quite ironically, we lost 1-0 at home to Burton with a goal in the 86' minute. Last game of the season, was at Newcastle away and leading 2-0. 82, 86 and 90 were the minutes in which Dionisi scored. We lost 3-2 and finished 3rd. Then in the playoff finals, we lost 1-0 to QPR

I finished 2nd with derby on last day of the season losing to Rotherham (again!) immediately applied for Middlesborough job as they had been relegated and should give me a better chance of silverware next year than sticking it out with Derby. Partly because my Derby squad was distinctly average and I'd relied on loan players to get me promoted. Budget wasn't enough to sign any of those loan players on transfer. Next season even if (when) I win the league with Boro, I may repeat the cycle depending on if a bigger team is relegated with some good young players to build around.

[vanWolfstwinkle]

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

I finished 2nd with derby on last day of the season losing to Rotherham (again!) immediately applied for Middlesborough job as they had been relegated and should give me a better chance of silverware next year than sticking it out with Derby. Partly because my Derby squad was distinctly average and I'd relied on loan players to get me promoted. Budget wasn't enough to sign any of those loan players on transfer. Next season even if (when) I win the league with Boro, I may repeat the cycle depending on if a bigger team is relegated with some good young players to build around.

That sounds like a good way to find a team. Continuously promoting various teams to turn drop down to find the perfect team. Let's hope Man City get relegated

[westy8chimp]

26 minutes ago, vanWolfstwinkle said:

That sounds like a good way to find a team. Continuously promoting various teams to turn drop down to find the perfect team. Let's hope Man City get relegated

ive set a rule not to accept any jobs midseason, so i cant make the jump into a premier league team. I have to get a side promoted myself that is good enough to then challenge in the premier league... everton finished 17th that would have been ideal! I was left with hull or Boro .. Swansea also came down but they sacked their manager in March not at the end of the season.

[vanWolfstwinkle]

Everton always do horrible in my saves

[FM2017Player]

On 28/11/2016 at 18:39, vanWolfstwinkle said:

Everton always do horrible in my saves

Very interested in this thread because, as my name indicates, I'm still playing FM2017 and interested in threads about it, and also, I'm in the Play-off Final with... Everton!

Managed QPR for three reasonable seasons in the Championship (Top Ten finishes, FA Cup run to 6th round in 2019) when I saw that Everton were relegated from the PL in 2019. I applied for and got the job!

2019-20 I finished 13th and expected to get the chop, but the board backed me to make loads of good free transfer and loan signings (eg Rony Lopes, Dusan Tadic, Phil Foden, Tom Doran the amazing regen striker from Leicester) plus Odsonne Edouard for 7 million from PSG (he never joined Celtic in this game), and in 2020-21 I finished 4th, overturned a first leg deficit to beat Middlesbrough in the P-O Semi, and now face an in form Reading in the Final. I definitely want to win, even though I've just signed a new 2-year contract, I don't want *another* season in the Championship.

So excited for the Final, I'll definitely watch the full match... might even wear a suit with a blue flower buttonhole First ever trip to Wembley in any version of the game.

Got so geed up for the 2nd leg of the Play Off Semi (which I also watched full match) that I played the Theme From Z-Cars on Spotify before pressing Start match... No wonder the atmopshere was so good!

[Hazpro]

On 23/11/2016 at 04:32, vanWolfstwinkle said:

I'm playing as Barnsley in the Championship and I'm in my first season lying in 2nd plane with 43 games played.

Was wondering if it's better to finish second, get the PL money and most likely get relegated, or intentionally drop down into the playoffs and bottle them to create a good squad which could win the title?

wouldn't you be better off qualiying for the play-offs and getting even more money by winning them, what was it last season £200m or so ?.

[Snorks]

Option 1: Auto-qualify and receive at least one season's EPL money + Championship prize money to use on building a team

Option 2: Fall back into play-offs, win the final and receive at least  one season's EPL money + revenue from play-offs + Champs prize money to build the team

Option 3: Fall back into play-offs, reach the final and lose. Receive no  EPL money and build using just the play-off revenue + Championship prize money

Option 4: Fall back into play-offs, lose the first game. Keep going with your original strategy of building  a squad with Championship money.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Snorks

[FM2017Player]

1 hour ago, Snorks said:

Option 1: Auto-qualify and receive at least one season's EPL money + Championship prize money to use on building a team

Option 2: Fall back into play-offs, win the final and receive at least  one season's EPL money + revenue from play-offs + Champs prize money to build the team

Option 2 is the most lucrative then? But there is less time to build a squad for the following season, esp in my position, with so many PL standard loan players who will go back soon.

If I get promoted, I'll hopefully be in a position to make permanent offers for Phil Foden and Tom Doran but I dont think either would be interested in a second championship season... plus I might miss out on potential replacements who are. 

If you're in the play offs, you have to try and win them. 

[jim owen]

1 hour ago, Hazpro said:

wouldn't you be better off qualiying for the play-offs and getting even more money by winning them, what was it last season £200m or so ?.

 

1 hour ago, Snorks said:

Option 1: Auto-qualify and receive at least one season's EPL money + Championship prize money to use on building a team

Option 2: Fall back into play-offs, win the final and receive at least  one season's EPL money + revenue from play-offs + Champs prize money to build the team

Option 3: Fall back into play-offs, reach the final and lose. Receive no  EPL money and build using just the play-off revenue + Championship prize money

Option 4: Fall back into play-offs, lose the first game. Keep going with your original strategy of building  a squad with Championship money.

not sure he wants your advice 4 years later

[Hazpro]

I only notiged after i posted. lol

[FM2017Player]

1 minute ago, jim owen said:

 

not sure he wants your advice 4 years later

I reactivated the thread cos it was FM2017 and also to concur about Everton.

There must be a thing in that edition of the game that relegated them, I wouldn't be managing them otherwise, I have no PL experience in this save I'm doing. 

[Snorks]

13 minutes ago, jim owen said:

 

not sure he wants your advice 4 years later

Thanks for that Jim.

Although I was joining a 'conversation' that was a few hours old and popped up as 'unread' - so I read it.

Not sure what advice I gave really, but still, thanks for your valuable contribution.

[FM2017Player]

1 hour ago, Snorks said:

Thanks for that Jim.

Although I was joining a 'conversation' that was a few hours old and popped up as 'unread' - so I read it.

Not sure what advice I gave really, but still, thanks for your valuable contribution.

People who reactivate long dead threads on forums are the pits really 😊

I found 2 aspects of the OP relevant to me tho tbf and I enjoyed your take, Snorks, so thanks! 👍

[Snorks]

Not disagreeing with you - I just browse the ones showing as 'unread' and comment when  I feel I have something useful. Didn't look, rarely bother to check how old the OP is. But why the need to have a pop at someone over it?

Oh well, it happens. Life goes on. It's Friday and I have a weekend ahead - day out tomorrow heading to Auckland to watch Wellington Phoenix then a day in the garden on Sunday.

[Nobby_McDonald]

Promotion every time. If you think any other way then should you be managing a football club?

[AurioDK]

You have to remember that you will get the easiest of starts after a promotion to the PL with a very daring AI who is easy to exploit with counters, the first season maybe be survivable based on the first 4-5 months alone. When the other clubs start to take you seriously, that´s when you really need to man up.

As many have said, the money alone from a promotion and a year in the PL goes a long way to solidifying your position, be it as a survivor or as a relegated club, just don´t push your wages, they will hurt a lot if you get relegated. Sign maybe one or two reinforcements upon promotion but nothing with ludicrous wages, keep the finances afloat and build upon your year in the PL.

Also a hint, try to get rid of the 10% wage rise every season ... that is a killer and adds up at the end of a season, it´s better to just offer a little more in wages and get rid of that clause.