Regens poor rating for important matches

[jean.lamy84]

I don't know if SI will consider this as a bug but I'm finding that new regens have some issues on certains attributes. As you can see in this screenshot taken from GS, there is a large amount of players that have poor ratings in important matches attribute. Injury prone is also higher than at start of the game.

I'm in 2023.

Combining with Brexit it is becoming hard to find good players without spending more than 50M€.

 

PS : I have the same feeling for each FM version. Regens have always had this attributes issue.

 

 

[Guest]

Younger players should tend towardsthe lower end of the scale for mental attributes as they have very limited experience to draw upon, it is possible to improve mental toughness during their development & to test that you should focus on the distribution in newgens older than 23 & compare the values to what they were when they were generated.

[eriktous]

2 hours ago, Barside said:

Younger players should tend towardsthe lower end of the scale for mental attributes as they have very limited experience to draw upon

Of course, but so should young players in the starting database, right?

 

2 hours ago, Barside said:

it is possible to improve mental toughness during their development & to test that you should focus on the distribution in newgens older than 23 & compare the values to what they were when they were generated

Ideally, regens should mimick real life youngsters, I'd assume, so it wouldn't be incorrect to compare against them. If there is a significant discrepancy, it's either an imbalance in the regen creation or in the starting database.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, eriktous said:

Of course, but so should young players in the starting database, right?

Indeed, players with little or no first team experience should rarely be in double figures for an attribute such as important matches, of course there will always be exeptions but I'd be inclinded to challenge a researacher to back up a high important matches rating for an inexperienced youngster or a player who has spent their career in the lower leagues.

[jean.lamy84]

That's interesting but I've understood that Important Match attribute cannot improve.

I would agree with you if all mental attributes can be improved threw experience or tutoring.

 

 

 

[phnompenhandy]

2 minutes ago, jean.lamy84 said:

That's interesting but I've understood that Important Match attribute cannot improve.

I would agree with you if all mental attributes can be improved threw experience or tutoring.

 

It certainly does improve. I created a club with a squad of 15 year olds with CA1. Naturally their Imp Mat attributes were in the 1s and 2s. Admittedly we haven't played many important matches yet but the figures for many have increased.

 

 

[Guest]

It used to be fixed but no longer, on my FM16 save the rating increased or decreased based on individual player experiences.

I have just loaded up the editor to look at the FM17 data & there are some generous ratings but 35* players aged 17 or under with an Important matches attribute rating of 15+ is reasonable when we consider that there are nearly 30,000 players aged 17 or under in the starting database.

*20 of the 35 are based in Italy so there might a pattern of generousity with that cohort.

[enigmatic]

I've always assumed that regens tending to be skewed towards higher potential and worse personality attributes is a deliberate design decision to make it possible to develop a top side from your youth setup, home country etc. but also harder work

But for a fair comparison, you need to be comparing players in their twenties and thirties at game start with players in their twenties and thirties around 2030.

[Silver Twilight Sparkle]

One thing i noticed with the main database is that it seems most players are super versatile, wingers play all the way from wing back or defender up to winger position, in both sides, or can play in all midfield, attacking midfield and striker positions. Regens by comparison are rarely that versatile, wingers can't even play a little deeper in the wide midfielder positions. The bigger problem is that re-training position in the game, even when players are young, takes several seasons to have an effect. And at the end they rarely become natural.

I mean, look at how many positions these guys can play, and i didn't even search for versatile players, i just searched for wingers and midfielders.

https://realsport101.com/images/Mikel_Oyarzabal.png

http://fmshots.com/images/hNUTD.jpg

https://realsport101.com/images/Mensah.jpg

http://www.football-oranje.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/paal-fm17.png

https://realsport101.com/images/Mihajlovic.png

https://realsport101.com/images/Zivkovic.jpg

http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Johannes-Eggestein_-Overview-Profile.jpg

https://realsport101.com/images/Kenedy.jpg

[Soninho]

A little off topic but..

I have a real player that dreads important matches! Complete red.. He had a avg rating last season around 8.00 and was by far my best player..

Still playing FM16, can it improve here also or it was introduced in FM17..? And how much impact does it really do..?

Thanks

[Overmars]

On 12/26/2016 at 08:42, Silver Twilight Sparkle said:

One thing i noticed with the main database is that it seems most players are super versatile, wingers play all the way from wing back or defender up to winger position, in both sides, or can play in all midfield, attacking midfield and striker positions. Regens by comparison are rarely that versatile, wingers can't even play a little deeper in the wide midfielder positions. The bigger problem is that re-training position in the game, even when players are young, takes several seasons to have an effect. And at the end they rarely become natural.

Good point. There is some logic to it, since positional familiarity should increase over time as players get more time to try out a variety of positions. Nevertheless, I don't buy that a player will feel tremendously out of place playing AMR when he is a natural MR.

And as for injury proneness...on past versions I have found it to be too high on regens. If I search a database for real players with PA above 180, almost all of them have an injury proneness below 10. If I search a database for young fake players with PA above 180, many of them are fragile. It's crushing for player development, and I've actually gone as far as to do a global mass edit to drop injury proneness for these players once every 3-4 years to keep some world class talent potential in the game. If I don't do that then Messi/Ronaldo remain the world's best players until their mid-30s and there are virtually no players who will replace them.

[Vänsterback]

On 2016-12-26 at 14:42, Silver Twilight Sparkle said:

One thing i noticed with the main database is that it seems most players are super versatile, wingers play all the way from wing back or defender up to winger position, in both sides, or can play in all midfield, attacking midfield and striker positions. Regens by comparison are rarely that versatile, wingers can't even play a little deeper in the wide midfielder positions. The bigger problem is that re-training position in the game, even when players are young, takes several seasons to have an effect. And at the end they rarely become natural.

I mean, look at how many positions these guys can play, and i didn't even search for versatile players, i just searched for wingers and midfielders.

When you get a promising left footed right back that only can play in that position and has a useless weaker foot... Another time i had a regen midfielder that was natural in no less than four (!) positions (MR, AMR, MC and AMC). But could he play on the left side of the field? Of course not, that would make too much sense

[Sourav B]

  TBH this needs to be fixed and changed! I have seen the difference btw a player with 15 imp match and <=10 imp match and it is not based on experience but the stat itself and it does not improve. less than 20 or 21 yo players can be quiet random but still the effect of that stat is there means a payer with 180 CA under 21 years of age with 20 imp match can have **** derbies (<6.2 rating) with missing chances after chances despite having 19 finishing and 17 technique with 17 composure etc etc, but if you let him grow to >=21 years of age you will see his actual CA by those important matches, ever see Sergio Ramos play irl in those imp matches? sometimes out-jumping 6'3" striker or defender to defend the box or to score or at least get the head in the penalty box despite being 6'0"!! Very few players have that kind of stats and with regens I had a one with 18 imp match I was also managing Spanish NT with Real Madrid CF, that striker had 170 ca with 182 pa he was 19 years old, so I called him up for the Confederations Cup and we were losing 2-0 to Argentina and I subbed Morata for that guy in 75th minute his name was Alvaro Campos, he was touted as next Raul, he scored 2 goals in the remaining 15 mins time with scoring another 2 in the extra time to win the final and those goals were devastating his pace was like 16 acc 17 pace and my God he was so devastating and genuinely awesome to watch! So I replaced him to Morata and in the next 10 matches he scored only 2 goals and made 3 assists with 6.0 rating in the International League final, so thats the evidence that at the young age its totally random but when you get to over 21 he will have really bad games in the imp games and will have really good game in imp matches if his imp match attribute is 5 and 16 respectively.

  And yes the regen system sucks because of the random positional problem and also bravery, aggression problem and also very high consistency but less than 5 imp match stats which needs to be fixed definitely. 

  And if you guys who commented that your players are inexperienced and obviously their imp match will be low at the young age, it does not change and with or without experience he will have really really bad games like despite having 18 passing 18 vision with several stats to be a complete midfielder he will give the ball straight to his opposition bcz of that particular stat, so this game can not be compared to the real life database cz in real life many young good players have good imp match stat which is much rare in regen database.