Solihull Moors Massacre

[Woady]

Well I've done it again, every year I buy the newest version of FM and end up failing miserably before coming here begging for help. 

This year Solihull Moors were the unlucky team to be graced with my management. Having read through countless threads over the years, my first process was to go through all my players and find a formation that seemed to suit them. With limited numbers, and obviously limited quality, I decided on the what looks slightly imbalanced but in my mind quite reasonable 4-3-2-1 shown below.

The theory with it is that it gives players passing options throughout the phases as they move the ball up the pitch. 

After reading the 'back to basics' thread by Herne, and watching the videos on bustthenet regarding mentality being 'risk', I originally decided on using the counter mentality to keep our passes simple, retain the ball, and work the ball through up the pitch via the various outlets. In my mind, it should be quite simple, defenders play the ball to the DLP, he in turn plays it to the CM, who can play it to either the WM or AM, who can create chances for either W or F9. 

As for player instructions, wing backs are set to fewer risky passes, my CM is set to close down more, WM is set to cross to far post, and my AM is set to roam from position and try more risky passes. 

The actual roles may be slightly different in the images attached, but this is because I've now played and lost the first 5 games of the season. Although this may as well be 8 as I ended up rage quitting and trying different tweaks.

Vs North Ferriby we created a total of 19 shots, with 7 on target. 9 shots against, with 5 on target. Lost 2-1
Vs Chester, created 8 shots, 5 on target. 17 shots against, 9 on target. Lost 2-1
Vs Aldershot, created 10 shots, 1 on target. 11 shots against, 5 on target. Lost 2-0
Vs Forst Green, created 6 shots, 1 on target. 15 shots against, 7 on target. Lost 3-0
Vs Macclesfield, Created 9 shots, 0 on target. 10 shots against, 3 on target. Lost 2-0.

Now I know its not exactly the number of shots that guarentee wins etc, but its pretty obvious that things are just getting worse. 

All the goals against seem to be of different varieties, mistakes from players passing opposition in on goal. Crosses from the sideline being headed in by strikers even though there are 3 players surrounding him, quick counters where players simply run through on goal, and easy through balls to players who seem to be unmarked in acres of space.

Needless to say, I'm slightly frustrated. I've read different threads for years on these forums, watches countless videos on youtube for ideas, and even looked up tips on which players to buy for different areas in lower leagues to try to give me a head start, but it all seems to be a complete waste.

Can somebody, anybody, please tell me where I'm going wrong with this. I've seen some very decent passages of play from my team at times, but there just seems to be no end product at all. I know Solihull Moors are supposed to be battling against relegation, but surely we can't be this bad? My problem now is also morale, morale is very poor throughout the squad, end in team talks pretty much the entire team is disenchanted and seems to have given up. I really want to stick with it and not just start again. For all I know, I may have changed and tweaked the tactic too early or too hastily but I just cant see where.

I've uploaded my save game and match saves to this link for anyone that has the time to look but any advice on getting this to work would be extremely helpful as I just want to get back to enjoying football manager like I used to.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5kBAOjo9wDUdmJmYmF0c0tYdTA?usp=sharing

Cheers all

WoadY

[Fosse]

That midfield pairing is suicidal, it'll leave horribly exposed and prone to the counter? Have you been watching your games on full match commentary? It should be immediately obvious that when your attack breaks down that it's basically just your two central defenders are on their own.

[AndySummers]

At first glance, it is a mega high-risk strategy.

With three players in advanced positions (from a defensive perspective) and then two of the three behind them pushing on at every opportunity, it seems likely you could drive a truck through the gaps in central midfield. That is exacerbated by the CM 'closing down at every opportunity', which to some extent flies in the face of the overall strategy. You then also have a deep lying playmaker offering no real defensive shape either, as he'll be roaming about the field trying to pick passes. The AM is also set to roaming too.

That is a lot of players offering no particular defensive shape, and with two wingbacks behind them too, who will not be shy at drifting forwards. If you lose possession, who wins it? Who is getting back into shape? Throw in a high overall team mentality too, are you finding the field too congested in the final third? Does the raumdeuter have space to work in, with an f9 and roaming midfielder broadly 'in his zone'? I'd also question the passing lanes that the deep-lying playmaker has, with his comrades to the right wanting to fly forward, I could see him becoming isolated/limited on many an occasion.

If you are determined to play that shape, I'd personally look to tone down some of the individual player mentalities to begin and look carefully at the midfield roles. Establish a basis upon which your team can either a) win the ball back or b) be in shape if you don't want to win the ball back quickly. I'd also be very tempted to move the striker to the other side of the pitch and give the raumdeuter - who is currently your main goal threat - room to breathe.

That would be my starting point, getting the defensive game in shape, and from there I'd begin to work towards freeing up the attacking aspect and getting to a point where you have a consistent goal threat > at the moment the lack of shots on target is suggestive that you are struggling to create decent chances and having to hit from range too frequently > likely a result of the high team mentality and the number of players who quickly end up inhabiting the same zones with little room for manoeuvre > think of your team as a gymnast, you need balance.

[Woady]

Cheers guys,

the feedback has helped massively so big thanks! After a bit of tinkering, i've swapped over the two central midfielders to be a little more balanced, and they work together pretty well passing the ball around.

As you can see by the scorelines, I've gone from conceeding 2-3 goals every match to conceeding 0-1 goals (I changed tactics in the 2-0 defeat to eastleigh) Infact in the last 9 games ive only conceeded 5 goals, 1 from corner, 1 from a huge mistake, 1 screamer, 1 penalty and 1 from outfield play. Not bad considering the amount I was conceeding previously.

my problem now is not being able to create proper chances. I can get use the ball well enough, but as you can see from the passes received in the image below, my forward (no.7) is never in the area to receive the ball and shoot. he always drops deep to help with build up even though he is an AF.

Have you got any ideas how I can make him more space to receive the ball? i get the feeling the build up is a bit too slow so the defenders always have chance to get back in position to cover, but if I up the tempo then this means I risk losing the ball more often right?

[Dr. Hook]

Just as an aside, you can isolate individual players on the analysis screen so you can see just those passes; would help you and us here I think

[WhyMe]

You have gone from mega risky to perhaps a bit too conservative.  Firstly I don't think you need your full back on defend with a decent screen in front of the two centre backs and your attacking winger in CM strata you can afford to put him on support.  This will help your winger out as he won't get so isolated on the flank and it shouldn't cost you much if anything defensively.  With the rest of the setup I notice you don't have a playmaker, is that by design in a very fluid system or is it an oversight?  There are several ways you could get a playmaker into that system that might benefit it.

Firstly you could change the CM-d to DLP-d if you have the player and he can look to control things from deep.  Alternatively, you could make the left AML an AP-s and give the wing back behind him an attack duty.  If you do this however you will probably need to swap the CM-d to the left side to cover defensively.  You would also need to keep an eye on the central area to make sure it doesn't become too congested.  It depends on what you are trying to achieve tbh.

[Woady]

yea, I thought it would illustrate the point that there is a hell of a lot of passing being completed in their half, but nothing in their penalty area. 

The image below is just my AF, as you can see, he receives quite a bit of the ball pretty deep considering he is supposed to be an advanced forward, but when he goes forward, he doesnt seem to either be in space to receive the ball, or when he is, my midfield dont opt to pass to him.

[Woady]

2 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

You have gone from mega risky to perhaps a bit too conservative.  Firstly I don't think you need your full back on defend with a decent screen in front of the two centre backs and your attacking winger in CM strata you can afford to put him on support.  This will help your winger out as he won't get so isolated on the flank and it shouldn't cost you much if anything defensively.  With the rest of the setup I notice you don't have a playmaker, is that by design in a very fluid system or is it an oversight?  There are several ways you could get a playmaker into that system that might benefit it.

Firstly you could change the CM-d to DLP-d if you have the player and he can look to control things from deep.  Alternatively, you could make the left AML an AP-s and give the wing back behind him an attack duty.  If you do this however you will probably need to swap the CM-d to the left side to cover defensively.  You would also need to keep an eye on the central area to make sure it doesn't become too congested.  It depends on what you are trying to achieve tbh.

Cheers WhyMe,   unfortunately this is basically what I had to start with when I was conceding loads and losing. 

My DR is being an arse at the moment and isnt happy being played in a role other than the one i promised him, but its helping to at least keep a clean sheet most games

[Dr. Hook]

@Woady  Some of those you can discount as you are coming deep out of your own end, but yeah, he isn't receiving the ball in places where you'd ideally like. He's probably being marked out of the game- you have a lone striker, so a 2 man centerback pairing will be able to key in on him, especially when they don't have any other immediate runner threats. You can try having him roam from position and see where that takes him. I would probably look to have him drop deeper, like in a DLF (S) or DF(S) role where he can make a run into the box rather than being pushed up there to start with. You can also try your IF on attack to give the CDs something else to worry about.

[AndySummers]

Just out of interest, as I don't know the player, does he have a PPM which would see him drop deeper than preferred?

I agree with Dr.Hook; I'd look to have the lone forward in a role that will see him either roam or drop off, to help pull the opposing backline out of position, allow him to get into the game more and ask questions of the defenders' decision-making skills. With the IF moved into an attack duty, to add thrust from deeper.

[Woady]

Cheers guys, 

Asante doesnt have any ppm's so can't see any reason to drop deep other than to collect the ball. His favoured positions are advanced forward and poacher so I can't see any way he would naturally want to drop deep.

I've changed my IF to attack in a few games when I'm pushing for a goal which has helped score more, but it hasn't really made any difference to my SC getting on the end of much. 

Maybe having a lone striker as an AF or P just isn't meant to happen? It seems as though they would work much better with 2 strikers up front but its not something that I can afford to do with the squad I have. Shame really as I would like to get it to work but I can't complain too much as I'm up to 10th in the league now when I was predicted 23rd

[Dr. Hook]

56 minutes ago, Woady said:

Cheers guys, 

Asante doesnt have any ppm's so can't see any reason to drop deep other than to collect the ball. His favoured positions are advanced forward and poacher so I can't see any way he would naturally want to drop deep.

I've changed my IF to attack in a few games when I'm pushing for a goal which has helped score more, but it hasn't really made any difference to my SC getting on the end of much. 

Maybe having a lone striker as an AF or P just isn't meant to happen? It seems as though they would work much better with 2 strikers up front but its not something that I can afford to do with the squad I have. Shame really as I would like to get it to work but I can't complain too much as I'm up to 10th in the league now when I was predicted 23rd

He will if you give him the role that does that- best roles are simply the game's evaluation of what it believes the key attributes are for the role. It doesn't mean the player can't do other roles well. If your man Asante isn't showing as a good DLF, but your tactic would work better with a DLF, have him play it. Look at his weaknesses for the role and tweak some player instructions to fit his attributes better if needed.

[Woady]

Sorry maybe I didnt explain right. I was answering Andy when he asked if Asante had any ppm's that may cause him to come deep even when played as an AF. My problem is that whoever I play up front in whatever role, they don't seem to receive the ball in the box, its always just outside.

Like I said before, can't really complain too much as I'm winning now at least, and the tactic seems to be working well, just not quite how I had hoped thats all. It just seems like I cant get an a lone striker to be the main goal scorer.