The Rangers FC Thread - Season 07/08

[Peacemaker7]

Originally posted by Anton:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie:

Timing and source of the story is irrelevant surely?

What action would you like to see imposed, Anton? Something in line with the Rangers one? Also, should Celtic/UEFA be looking to ban certain songs like Rangers have done to help try and remove any contentious terms from our stadia?

Surely 'guaranteeing' it comes to nothing isn't suitable if we want to remove such problems?

I dont see what action would be imposed when nothing has been found yet, innocent until proven guilty etc.

And if any action is deemed necessary to be taken then it should be decided on its own merit. Your punishment should not come into it, I hate the way we are always pushed together with you as though we are the same entity. Sooner we drop the old firm nonsense the better.

The celtic fans both home and away have done an excellent job in 'policing' themselves and any songs that anyone could deem offensive are not sung anywhere now. Every bit of video footage is gone over in every detail by the laptop loyal looking for anything that can be deemed offensive so they can run to the media/sfa. And since we have had nothing like this all season its safe to say its worked and we dont need to 'ban' songs that are not being sung. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See there's the difference straight away. Many Rangers fans in this thread, whilst pointing out the hypocrasy of the Scottish media who have gorged themselves on sectarianism for the last fifty odd years and used it to sell their rags, on the whole agreed that the needless chanting about stuff that had nothing to do with football should be cut out. You come on and immediately try to pretend that your fan base is perfect. Guess that shows what side of the divide you're on, but I suspect there will be more than a few people on your side, on your side, if see what I mean.

[Anton]

You think if our fans were singing the 'offense' songs all round the country then the sfa would stay quiet on the subject?

Arrests and action by police on what basis? Drunken fans being removed from the ground? Stick to the point at hand, the police have made no action against the celtic away support for sectarian songs being sung.

I'm not going to look through youtube, but feel free to link. I hadn't known about any vids from this years visit with the addons being sung.

I dont know how you can hear the sungs being sung around the country when I cant, and I am in among the fans. Unless you are refering to a totally differant set of songs from me? Which songs that you have heard regulary sung by the celtic support home or away this year do you deem offensive?

[Anton]

I'll refrain from having two seperate convos and just answer them all in my next post

[Peacemaker7]

So what you're saying is, UEFA are lying.

[Anton]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:

So what you're saying is, UEFA are lying.

Guess schools weren't as good back in your day

[Frankie]

Anton:

But the SPL have taken action privately against a number of clubs which I assume include Celtic. Iain Blair has said as such in correspondence I've had with him on the matter.

'Go Home Ya H Uns', this new 'Artur hates the h uns' and the odd bit of IRA stuff has still happened more than once this season. These songs with that term are unacceptable. Are you honestly defending them and denying the evidence on Youtube about your Barca behaviour? The SFA may not have taken pubic action but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Here are a couple for you to deny. There are many more:

(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwXETs6Y9w0

(2) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-CwxyZURz0

I also have details of action taken by Northern Constabulary, Grampion Police and Lothian and Borders Police based on sectarian chanting. I can post them if you like.

One fan arrest was reported by Grampion Police:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football-news/tm_hea...66633-name_page.html

[Peacemaker7]

Damn site better than they are now, and really although you're trying very hard to be clever, it simply isn't working.

And the deny and deflect begins on the other thread, as expected. So typical of a group of fans who cannot see beyond the end of their own noses.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:

Damn site better than they are now, and really although you're trying very hard to be clever, it simply isn't working.

And the deny and deflect begins on the other thread, as expected. So typical of a group of fans who cannot see beyond the end of their own noses.

It's laughable isn't it.

Quite happy to label referees as cheats and bigots but when it comes to admitting their own faults, well let's go back to other fans choice of distasteful song and not address the issue at hand.

Fact is songs about h uns and the IRA are unacceptable, discriminatory and/or sectarian - take your pick of adjective. The quicker these supporters realise that, accept it and take action to eradicate it, the better for all of us.

The same goes for any similar songs our support have - BJK or otherwise. But then, we've not afraid to admit that.

[Peacemaker7]

As I said Frankie, I made my own views very clear at the time, and it didn't go down well with every so called Rangers 'fan' in here as you probably remember. But then everything negative said about Celtic is a lie, so those videos and reports you've posted must indeed be lies.

And tbh, no it isn't laughable, it's utterly pathetic, but it's what I - and I'm sure you and others - have come to expect.

[Anton]

Ok if you are classing the Boruc song as sectarion then it gets sung at every game.

But then we have a whole new argument which I am not even going to start with.

I didnt say the youtube stuff didnt exist, I said I hadn't known about them and asked you to link.

The IRA addons in the first vid are unacceptable, it being outwith the stadium uefa cannot take any action though. This song gets sung at every home and away match and the addons are never used anymore. I can say that 100% hand on heart.

[Frankie]

Mate, I think most of us in here have always accepted the problems Rangers fans have.

We've never denied that, are always prepared to debate the issue and, for the most part, condemn any of the songs none of us want to hear from the viewpoint that others are just as bad.

The 'others' have always attempted a flawed strategy of moral superiority and, yes, that is pathetic.

Anyway, I'm away for a few Friday pm pints. Looking forward to seeing what deflection and denials are posted tonight...

[Peacemaker7]

The IRA addons in the first vid are unacceptable, it being outwith the stadium uefa cannot take any action though.

Erm I think you'll find they can. But pleased to see you at least accept the problem is unnacceptable so you've just moved up a notch on my list. Although I'm not saying what that list is for

[Frankie]

Originally posted by Anton:

Ok if you are classing the Boruc song as sectarion then it gets sung at every game.

But then we have a whole new argument which I am not even going to start with.

I didnt say the youtube stuff didnt exist, I said I hadn't known about them and asked you to link.

The IRA addons in the first vid are unacceptable, it being outwith the stadium uefa cannot take any action though. This song gets sung at every home and away match and the addons are never used anymore. I can say that 100% hand on heart.

The word 'h un' is only ever used by Celtic fans towards teams with a certain perceived religious affiliation.

Much in the same way 'fenian' was allegedly used by some Rangers fans to mean Catholic, I'd suggest a similar number of Celtic supporters use it to describe Protestants.

As such, to avoid contention and offence, it should go. My information is that police forces, Celtic FC, the SPL and UEFA all think the same.

Don't you?

[McD]

Really can't muster up the energy to trawl through Anton's wise words but I'm guessing it goes along the lines of:

We've not done anything wrong

It's all a big conspiracy

The real villains in this are them lot

Repeat ad finitum

Get used to reading that plenty.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by McD:

Really can't muster up the energy to trawl through Anton's wise words but I'm guessing it goes along the lines of:

We've not done anything wrong

It's all a big conspiracy

The real villains in this are them lot

Repeat ad finitum

Get used to reading that plenty.

Add in 'I can't be bothered trying to defend the word h un; it just isn't sectarian', then you won't be far off...

[GingerFurball]

Originally posted by Anton:

Ok if you are classing the Boruc song as sectarion then it gets sung at every game.

If we were to sing a song about McGregor hating fenians, then you'd be up in arms about it and you know it.

[Peacemaker7]

Actually what IS funny is how they were delighted when UEFA were turning the spotlight on us and were happy to call for more such investigations and point deductions and bannings. But of course, it's a two edged sword and now it's swung to them it's all a big conspiracy.

When you think of it, we have the SFA, the referee's, the media and now UEFA all apparantly out to stop Celtic winning the league - this should be a walk in the park.

[Anton]

I would be more worried by the fact a second rate keeper had his own song

I can only speak for myself, but the word h un to me does not refer to a protestant. It is simply a 'nickname' for rangers and rangers fans.

I think if you ask most fans they will agree, but if you fake outrage enough then you can get it to mean whatever you want I suspose.

And dont come on and respond after the few pints Frankie, we dont want the mask to slip

[Stephen Wilson]

hmm, so all Celtic fans use the word *** to mean protestant & only some Rangers fans use fenian to mean catholic. And best of all, some Celtic fans use fenian to mean protestant?

Aye right.

[McD]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:

Actually what IS funny is how they were delighted when UEFA were turning the spotlight on us and were happy to call for more such investigations and point deductions and bannings.

I remember this forum and their supporters just after it happened. Was like a circus. Sensing a change of mood now?

When you think of it, we have the SFA, the referee's, the media and now UEFA all apparantly out to stop Celtic winning the league - this should be a walk in the park.

Testament to Celtic that they are still in contention for the league - that's all mind! - what with these external forces conspiring against them.

[GingerFurball]

Originally posted by Anton:

I would be more worried by the fact a second rate keeper had his own song

I can only speak for myself, but the word h un to me does not refer to a protestant. It is simply a 'nickname' for rangers and rangers fans.

I think if you ask most fans they will agree, but if you fake outrage enough then you can get it to mean whatever you want I suspose.

And dont come on and respond after the few pints Frankie, we dont want the mask to slip

It is a nickname with sectarian connotations.

[YippeeKaeYay]

And we're inevitably back on the same old topic.

Think we'll ever get to a point where it's only about the football?

[Anton]

Originally posted by GingerFurball:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

I would be more worried by the fact a second rate keeper had his own song

I can only speak for myself, but the word h un to me does not refer to a protestant. It is simply a 'nickname' for rangers and rangers fans.

I think if you ask most fans they will agree, but if you fake outrage enough then you can get it to mean whatever you want I suspose.

And dont come on and respond after the few pints Frankie, we dont want the mask to slip

It is a nickname with sectarian connotations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were to make up an entirely new word and its meaning was players/fans/assosciates of rangers football club. Would that be a word with sectarian connotations?

[jimbo22]

Originally posted by Anton:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GingerFurball:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

I would be more worried by the fact a second rate keeper had his own song

I can only speak for myself, but the word h un to me does not refer to a protestant. It is simply a 'nickname' for rangers and rangers fans.

I think if you ask most fans they will agree, but if you fake outrage enough then you can get it to mean whatever you want I suspose.

And dont come on and respond after the few pints Frankie, we dont want the mask to slip

It is a nickname with sectarian connotations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were to make up an entirely new word and its meaning was players/fans/assosciates of rangers football club. Would that be a word with sectarian connotations? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is Anton is that the word Fenian is a "nickname" for you lot, but you still get offended....

You cant have it both ways, no matter how hard you try to justify it.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

Originally posted by Stephen Wilson:

hmm, so all Celtic fans use the word *** to mean protestant & only some Rangers fans use fenian to mean catholic. And best of all, some Celtic fans use fenian to mean protestant?

Aye right.

Shocking sectarian article

[HOORAY HENRIK]

Originally posted by Frankie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

Ok if you are classing the Boruc song as sectarion then it gets sung at every game.

But then we have a whole new argument which I am not even going to start with.

I didnt say the youtube stuff didnt exist, I said I hadn't known about them and asked you to link.

The IRA addons in the first vid are unacceptable, it being outwith the stadium uefa cannot take any action though. This song gets sung at every home and away match and the addons are never used anymore. I can say that 100% hand on heart.

The word 'h un' is only ever used by Celtic fans towards teams with a certain perceived religious affiliation.

Much in the same way 'fenian' was allegedly used by some Rangers fans to mean Catholic, I'd suggest a similar number of Celtic supporters use it to describe Protestants.

As such, to avoid contention and offence, it should go. My information is that police forces, Celtic FC, the SPL and UEFA all think the same.

Don't you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you really trying to claim only Celtic fans call you h uns?

ahahahaha deluded

[stevethedog]

Fwiw I & many other still refer to rangers as **** and don't see it ceasing. I'm not sure where it came from but at the moment I don't have a problem with Rangers being **** & celtic being tims. If someone cares to lecture me as to why it's unacceptable then fire on.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

Originally posted by stevethedog:

Fwiw I & many other still refer to rangers as **** and don't see it ceasing. I'm not sure where it came from but at the moment I don't have a problem with Rangers being **** & celtic being tims. If someone cares to lecture me as to why it's unacceptable then fire on.

Well you see, Rangers fans to their shock were told they couldnt chant about murdering Catholics anymore.

So they hatched a plan to claim that the word 'h un', used by many supporters of different clubs up and down the county and used many a time on TV/Radio was infact a sectarian word used by Celtic fans to discriminate Protestants.

[Anton]

Originally posted by jimbo22:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GingerFurball:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

I would be more worried by the fact a second rate keeper had his own song

I can only speak for myself, but the word h un to me does not refer to a protestant. It is simply a 'nickname' for rangers and rangers fans.

I think if you ask most fans they will agree, but if you fake outrage enough then you can get it to mean whatever you want I suspose.

And dont come on and respond after the few pints Frankie, we dont want the mask to slip

It is a nickname with sectarian connotations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were to make up an entirely new word and its meaning was players/fans/assosciates of rangers football club. Would that be a word with sectarian connotations? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is Anton is that the word Fenian is a "nickname" for you lot, but you still get offended....

You cant have it both ways, no matter how hard you try to justify it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I honestly do not get offended at that or at anything people would call me. So I'm definately not trying to have it both ways.

I wouldnt mind if fans could sing anything they wanted without reproach but you obviously have to draw the line somewhere.

[Vidmar14]

Originally posted by FrankJJ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vidmar14:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by McD:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vidmar14:

Not to mention that extending the season wouldn't be fair on thier supporters (because its been one to forget?)

Perhaps the fear is that by the time we reach May their attendance will have reached absolute zero? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true, When a junior football cup quarter final game can get a better attendance than a celtic SPL game you know you have a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awful lot of nonsense spoken by people who do not know what they are talking about.

Celtic were only offered 2500 tickets, no more were made available. At least 300 people were also locked out because no pay gate was made available so try finding out things before having a cheap dig.

And speaking of cheap digs, GingerFurball was completely out of order and to be fair I suspect he will admit it when he returns and reads his post, it was unfortunate and I suspect unintentionally crass.

I also think few complaints should be made about fixtures being called off after your own Gretna/Lyon debacle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Usual from you, someone else to blame.

[Peacemaker7]

More deny and deflect pish from the usual suspects, good to see they haven't disapointed us. Because of course this whole thing is really about the use of the word h un and nothing to do with the conveniently ignored IRA chants

[jimbo22]

Originally posted by Peacemaker7:

More deny and deflect pish from the usual suspects, good to see they haven't disapointed us. Because of course this whole thing is really about the use of the word h un and nothing to do with the conveniently ignored IRA chants

As I said earlier.

The well known phrase "Sweep, Sweep" is apt for that lot.

[stevethedog]

While I personally don't get offended at being called fenian I'd never use it as I believe it's raising the bar to a unhealthy level from tim.

[pandaLUFC]

You can tell that the derby is coming up

H.un has undergone widespread semantic pejoration whereas fenian has undergone narrow linguistic pejoration. I'm not exactly certian why h.un underwent semantic diachrnoic change, opposed to lingusitic diachronic change, but it did - it's certainly less offensive than it used to be. That said, *** - much like fenian - has a different semanic meaning when sung at a football stadium, as it has been contexualised to become inflammatory.

You can argue the toss either way, but for Celtic fans to claim that h.un is not sectarian is wrong, just because "other fans" use it - pragmatically, it's not the same for a Celtic fan to call someone a h.un as it is a Hearts, Hibs or Shire fan to call someone a ***.

[McD]

No idea why Celtic supporters sing "go home ya h*ns" to Hearts fans when it's a jokey, happy-go-lucky nickname for us and nothing to do with protestantism. Confusing times.

[Jeebs]

bloody hell think i might just give up on this thread til well after tomorrow's game.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

Originally posted by pandaLUFC:

You can tell that the derby is coming up

H.un has undergone widespread semantic pejoration whereas fenian has undergone narrow linguistic pejoration. I'm not exactly certian why h.un underwent semantic diachrnoic change, opposed to lingusitic diachronic change, but it did - it's certainly less offensive than it used to be. That said, *** - much like fenian - has a different semanic meaning when sung at a football stadium, as it has been contexualised to become inflammatory.

You can argue the toss either way, but for Celtic fans to claim that h.un is not sectarian is wrong, just because "other fans" use it - pragmatically, it's not the same for a Celtic fan to call someone a h.un as it is a Hearts, Hibs or Shire fan to call someone a ***.

Utter pish.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

Originally posted by McD:

No idea why Celtic supporters sing "go home ya h*ns" to Hearts fans when it's a jokey, happy-go-lucky nickname for us and nothing to do with protestantism. Confusing times.

You have no idea?

I think you do.

Playing stupid?

[McD]

Indulge me.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

No you're right, Celtic fans like to hide behind the word in order to show our distane for Protestants.

We've been rumbled.

[McD]

Never crossed my mind.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by HOORAY HENRIK:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anton:

Ok if you are classing the Boruc song as sectarion then it gets sung at every game.

But then we have a whole new argument which I am not even going to start with.

I didnt say the youtube stuff didnt exist, I said I hadn't known about them and asked you to link.

The IRA addons in the first vid are unacceptable, it being outwith the stadium uefa cannot take any action though. This song gets sung at every home and away match and the addons are never used anymore. I can say that 100% hand on heart.

The word 'h un' is only ever used by Celtic fans towards teams with a certain perceived religious affiliation.

Much in the same way 'fenian' was allegedly used by some Rangers fans to mean Catholic, I'd suggest a similar number of Celtic supporters use it to describe Protestants.

As such, to avoid contention and offence, it should go. My information is that police forces, Celtic FC, the SPL and UEFA all think the same.

Don't you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you really trying to claim only Celtic fans call you h uns?

ahahahaha deluded </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I never said that anywhere. I referred specifically with regard to Celtic fans usage of the word. Of course other fans - wrongly but not in a sectarian sense (as with fenian arguably) - use the word as well.

Are you denying you only every use towards the kind of teams I mention?

As for delusion, I think the only deluded person is you son...

[Frankie]

Originally posted by HOORAY HENRIK:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stevethedog:

Fwiw I & many other still refer to rangers as **** and don't see it ceasing. I'm not sure where it came from but at the moment I don't have a problem with Rangers being **** & celtic being tims. If someone cares to lecture me as to why it's unacceptable then fire on.

Well you see, Rangers fans to their shock were told they couldnt chant about murdering Catholics anymore.

So they hatched a plan to claim that the word 'h un', used by many supporters of different clubs up and down the county and used many a time on TV/Radio was infact a sectarian word used by Celtic fans to discriminate Protestants. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try using '***' on TV/radio - you won't be permitted to use it. I don't know of any such station that suggests it is OK t use.

Your hypocrisy and double standards are incredible.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by Stephen Wilson:

hmm, so all Celtic fans use the word *** to mean protestant & only some Rangers fans use fenian to mean catholic. And best of all, some Celtic fans use fenian to mean protestant?

Aye right.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Here's what I wrote:

"Much in the same way 'fenian' was allegedly used by some Rangers fans to mean Catholic, I'd suggest a similar number of Celtic supporters use it to describe Protestants."

When I used the word 'it' I obviously meant h un. But you keep up the pedantry instead of answering the debate at hand.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by Anton:

I would be more worried by the fact a second rate keeper had his own song

I can only speak for myself, but the word h un to me does not refer to a protestant. It is simply a 'nickname' for rangers and rangers fans.

I think if you ask most fans they will agree, but if you fake outrage enough then you can get it to mean whatever you want I suspose.

And dont come on and respond after the few pints Frankie, we dont want the mask to slip

What mask is this? Heard this phrase a few times but no-one has ever clarified it. Bizarre!

I'm the same sober or under the influence. Fair, self-detracting and capable of debating without insult.

The only masks you'll find are those that think songs about h uns or the IRA are acceptable. There are a few as we've seen.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by HOORAY HENRIK:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by McD:

No idea why Celtic supporters sing "go home ya h*ns" to Hearts fans when it's a jokey, happy-go-lucky nickname for us and nothing to do with protestantism. Confusing times.

You have no idea?

I think you do.

Playing stupid? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When was the last time you sang about h uns to Hibernian/Dundee Utd fans?

I've never heard you sing it in Europe either to Man Utd, Liverpool or Blackburn fans.

I sense a pattern. And the one playing stupid isn't McD.

[jimbo22]

Originally posted by Frankie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stephen Wilson:

hmm, so all Celtic fans use the word *** to mean protestant & only some Rangers fans use fenian to mean catholic. And best of all, some Celtic fans use fenian to mean protestant?

Aye right.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Here's what I wrote:

"Much in the same way 'fenian' was allegedly used by some Rangers fans to mean Catholic, I'd suggest a similar number of Celtic supporters use it to describe Protestants."

When I used the word 'it' I obviously meant h un. But you keep up the pedantry instead of answering the debate at hand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardly surprising when you consider he's a Celtic fan, it comes naturally to that Mhob.

[McD]

Masks and plans hatched.

Not paranoid. Definitely not paranoid.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by stevethedog:

Fwiw I & many other still refer to rangers as **** and don't see it ceasing. I'm not sure where it came from but at the moment I don't have a problem with Rangers being **** & celtic being tims. If someone cares to lecture me as to why it's unacceptable then fire on.

Tims is not a word you can equate with h un. Fenian, certainly given their very similar literal meanings but not tim. As Fatbhoy or the people who run the E-Tims website. I don't see any E-**** website or bears describing themselves as h uns on here.

As for the h un term, well of course it's meaning can be debated. Celtic fans (some of them at least), like Rangers fans who sing/sang about fenians use it to describe our Protestant background. They sing it to Hearts fans, Caley fans and Dundee fans - all clubs with a similar fanbase.

Even if you take that out of the equation and relate it to some notion about German descent or support for the monarchy, then it's still offensive.

Try calling Rangers legend Harold Davis a h un and see what credibility you have afterwards.

Over the last couple of years our support was asked to modernise and remove stuff like fenian and FTP from our songs. These terms were contentious, outdated and not suitable for our stadia. I'm astounded others want to back other terms with similar backgrounds based on intolerance and discrimination.

And we're still the bad ones for suggesting retaining stuff like h un, support for the IRA and add-ons such as FTQ is unhealthy.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by McD:

Masks and plans hatched.

Not paranoid. Definitely not paranoid.

I've never seen such a hypocrite in all my life.

The perfect caricature of intolerance and prejudice.

I knew this subject would provide some interesting comments of which none of us would agree on. I honestly thought we could so so maturely and in a self-depracting manner (as we attempted earlier today). I'm astonished at the lengths some will go to to absolve their own obvious guilt.

As always, it results in personal allegations about my own good character. Unsubstantiated of course.

Laughable.