Annoying Performance Drops

[ermant]

Don't get me wrong, I just needed to share my feeling about this. I love the game and i will eventually find a way for trophies like i have been doing for long long years but this is really getting annoying and it really cracks my nerves. 

Everything is okay, team outclass opponents with huge scores and then a player is concerned for lack of first team football, leaving the club or something else and it begins. Team morale drops, now players just stand on the pitch like amateurs, noone gets past opponent, give possession easily and the most important part is i still create chances but players shoot like a back pass to own goalkeeper or miss clear chances. Opposition's below average goalkeeper turns out to a world class goalkeeper (more like a ball magnet) and mine is just the opposite. Opposition parks the bus, they always find the only striker with long balls, my defenders move away from the poacher and opposition wins the match with 1-2 shots. And all these happen in a few days. My league standing is not that bad but inconsistency and losing points to weak teams is really annoying.

Is that it? Is it just the morale? Performance drop happens, it is reality but this much? I have even made too many big money transfers for top class players which is not me compared to previous versions but i have never suffered this much for long long years of FM. It was going away after a while as team stature and squad quality improves but not this time.

Please dont tell me to visit the tactics forum, please dont. What i tell is not about tactics. Besides, i try different tactics in the match when i suffer but it feels like "whatever you do, you won't win this match".

[Svenc]

Short answer: No, it isn't morale. Never in isolation. Though having the confidence in the dressing room always makes things a tad easier.

The longer one: Likely a mix of mediocre management and perception, plus a few bugs. Management: Never thinking about ploys that may get you through spells of no confidence or off days as you can't avoid teams performing lesser (hidden consistency traits). Never having worked out motivation/media strategies that can help some in seeing you through those patches in particular if you have worked out how your squad personalities respond to them. Having a lot of not yet adapted new players/foreigners in there, which compounds all that. Changing tactics at random, but never thinking about how to approach those weak teams who usually sit deep -- like that Watford match who played a narrow formation which has specific weak areas that if targeted can increase the chance of scoring some. In turn combined with a bad tactics as to man management contributing to making the players additionally nervous/frustrated, whilst the small team gains confidence hanging on in there, increasing the chance to concede sloppy goals slightly by the minute. The feedback is oft a bit ambiguous,  which is why it's easy to dismiss and never really think about. For each of those areas there is likely an expert on these forums / fantastic write-up.

Perception issues: Watching highlights may give a skewed perception of what is going on, the flawed stats don't help. It is very easy to fall for the perception that everything was working wonders when you are winning, even if that previous sequence only came to be because of a lucky scrambled goal providing the difference,  whilst perceiving the team to play horrible simply when you are losing.The goalkeeper may actually not be as good as you perceive it to be, in particular within the context of the game, chances are easily overrated,  particular narrowed one on ones (not that these are bad, but unlike a lot of the shots a keeper faces where he has no chance to reply, he has a chance to react here decently, the main coder on previous acknowledged to that). All only going to be lesser with added feedback. Quite a few real managers have adopted Expected Goal models for instance which they use. Statistically FM treats far too much wildly different attempts completely equal, even though it's obvious some stuff is converted more and less regularly. Whilst FM once was on the forefront of stats, it's lacking quite a few behind by now.

Bugs: Bad marking leading to a goal, which when you struggle to score hurts more so than previous. Shouldn't happen repeatedly. Plus connected to that, own expectations possibly clashing with how the game works contributing. It is a computer code, which means its a) somebody's interpretation and b) has flaws as it's not the real thing. If you think management is a simple job, field the millionaires and off you roll to victory -- whilst it is perfectly possible to keep it simple and be successful (you argue yourself you generally are), the game doesn't agree.

[ermant]

I am sick of it. I am fed up and it is not my tactics. I refuse to play fast direct football, i won't. This year's game is all about it.

[lemeuresnew]

1 hour ago, ermant said:

I am sick of it. I am fed up and it is not my tactics. I refuse to play fast direct football, i won't. This year's game is all about it.

i never play direct, and never have the problem you do. definitely not enough to complain about it

if its not your tactics, or how you deal with something, it wouldnt be happening to the extent your suggesting? why would it? how are you planning to change anything if you have that attitude towards it?

 

[KingCanary]

1 hour ago, ermant said:

I am sick of it. I am fed up and it is not my tactics. I refuse to play fast direct football, i won't. This year's game is all about it.

No it isn't. I've had success with a shorter, slower passing game. If anything I find playing direct a struggle. 

[ermant]

1 hour ago, lemeuresnew said:

i never play direct, and never have the problem you do. definitely not enough to complain about it

if its not your tactics, or how you deal with something, it wouldnt be happening to the extent your suggesting? why would it? how are you planning to change anything if you have that attitude towards it?

Yeah me too. I cant remember for how many years i have been playing slow possession football but what i want to tell is, there is a difference in this version beyond tactics. My post consists of two parts. I am disgusted with the sudden weird performance drops in the first part. Like beating top class teams away with ease but suddenly struggle to beat a weak team. In the second part i complain about the advantage of direct play, as my defenders run away when they pump the ball forward and their only forward takes the ball and scores.

And i think i have played FM series enough to realise the exeggrated advantage of direct play in this version. Of course i respect your opinion if you don't think that way. But again, the main problem in this topic of mine is performance drops.

 

1 hour ago, KingCanary said:

No it isn't. I've had success with a shorter, slower passing game. If anything I find playing direct a struggle. 

Actually, i may also consider myself successful as i became a worldwide reputation club in EPL with a few trophies but far below my expectations. Performance drops and ugly marking ruin my consistency. And also there is a Man Utd bug to deal ahead of me who plays monster direct football. My players suddenly become sunday league footballers against them. 1 win and 2 draws in 16 games against Mourinho. Man Utd were with substitutes in that 1 win. Maybe EPL is different in FM17.

[Svenc]

11 hours ago, ermant said:

 

I am sick of it. I am fed up and it is not my tactics. I refuse to play fast direct football, i won't. This year's game is all about it.

 

That one-liner reply tells me all I needed to know. 1) You are contributing guaranteed. 2) You are just looking for some guys to have a moan with. 3) Your general perception is warped to the hilt, which likely extends to keeper performances and other areas as well, as this version's "issues" are the exactly opposite, namely teams oft having it fairly easy to control the centre of the pitch, with it the ball, which leads to occasionally curious sequences in particular when AI managers play defensively. Anyway, I am personally done with this, unless there would be an upload of those matches, which from experience will never ever come, as, see 2). It's not my frustrations, so I can live with it. It would be useful to announce if you just wanted to vent the next time. May save others simply shrugged aside in any of the above a bit of time... admittedly the "don't tell me it's my meal I had for dinner / tactics / fault" catch phrase should have given it away, true!

[ermant]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

That one-liner reply tells me all I needed to know. 1) You are contributing guaranteed. 2) You are just looking for some guys to have a moan with. 3) Your general perception is warped to the hilt, which likely extends to keeper performances and other areas as well, as this version's "issues" are the exactly opposite, namely teams oft having it fairly easy to control the centre of the pitch, with it the ball, which leads to occasionally curious sequences in particular when AI managers play defensively. Anyway, I am personally done with this, unless there would be an upload of those matches, which from experience will never ever come, as, see 2). It's not my frustrations, so I can live with it. It would be useful to announce if you just wanted to vent the next time. May save others simply shrugged aside in any of the above a bit of time... admittedly the "don't tell me it's my meal I had for dinner / tactics / fault" catch phrase should have given it away, true!

Sorry Svenc. I couldn't completely get what you mean. I am not looking for someone to share my opinions and i reject the idea of "you cant play, you moan". As i say, i am experienced in this game enough to realise differences.

What i want to tell is, as the title says, sudden performance drops are just annoying. Compared to previous versions, I have done more than enough to achieve my goals. I have even made several huge money transfers, which is not me, but inconsistency is a real problem.

Also, being unable to open strict defences of pretty average teams and surprise terrible performances from quality players seem so fake sometimes.

[Cougar2010]

15 hours ago, ermant said:

Yeah me too. I cant remember for how many years i have been playing slow possession football but what i want to tell is, there is a difference in this version beyond tactics. My post consists of two parts. I am disgusted with the sudden weird performance drops in the first part. Like beating top class teams away with ease but suddenly struggle to beat a weak team. In the second part i complain about the advantage of direct play, as my defenders run away when they pump the ball forward and their only forward takes the ball and scores.

Reading between the lines I would say you have a couple of issues.

 

A) Player attitude/performance.

You'll have watched games IRL where you hear the commentator say "The team/players just haven't turned up today".  Its difficult to put a finger on why but you get games like that in FM where the team just don't play as you would expect and there isn't an obvious reason why.  It could be a number of things and its the time where you earn your crust as a manager.  It could be overconfidence/complacency due to your team talks/recent performances, it could be that too many players are simply having an off day (due to the consistency attribute), particularly relevant if they are in key positions within your tactic or perhaps your captain.  You can tweak the tactics, you have a HT team talk but you know fairly early on what type of match its going to be.  You have to accept that these matches happen, its normal, you just have to try and minimise the number during the seasons and try to grind out a result when they happen.

 

B) Tactics.

Tactics will play a role albeit not a major one but I do want to cover a comment you made above.  Every tactic you select can be both bad or good depending on the opposition and their tactics.  What works in one match might not be suitable for the next one and sticking your head in the sand & not recognising that puts you at a disadvantage.  You should be considering the strengths & weaknesses of your tactic and know what type of opposition tactic they work well against & which they perform poorly against.  Beating top teams & then struggling against weaker ones is a sign that your tactic performs well against teams that leave space & attack you but struggle more against defensive sides who keep men behind the ball.

[sporadicsmiles]

15 hours ago, ermant said:

Like beating top class teams away with ease but suddenly struggle to beat a weak team. In the second part i complain about the advantage of direct play, as my defenders run away when they pump the ball forward and their only forward takes the ball and scores.

If you would like some feedback, then I am not shocked you struggle against weak sides playing slow football. You are giving them all the time in the world to get into a solid defensive shape, and getting into a solid defensive shape is going to be their game plan. You are therefore going to rely on some moments of individual brilliance, and that is a fickle thing to rely on. I am not a tactical expert, I cannot tell you how to play, but I can spot this type of thing because I face it myself often. You can have all the ball in the world, but you have to do something with it. That does not been playing super direct football, but you need a cutting edge sometimes. 

On the counter attacking, I assume you push a lot of players forward when in attack? That always leaves you vulnerable to counter attacks, especially against players with great pace. You need players who are quick and have excellent anticipation to play like that. You do not want your players making tackles, you want them to get the ball first. If they are not doing this, look at their stats, or give them extra defensive support. I mean, if you are constantly getting caught on the break, do something to stop it. I mean I try to take advantage of being able to do this as well. Sometimes, when I am getting killed by attacking fullbacks, I will stick more people higher up the pitch to take advantage of the holes those fullbacks leave, or to force the AI to take a more laid back approach.

Football is not static, should be the message here. Besides, sometimes you just lose. I had a game last night where I dominated but lost to a penalty, which was the AIs only chance in the match? Why? I could not break down their defence no matter what I tried. I ended up pushing too many people forward, got caught on a break, and it led to the penalty. Shrug and move on, man.