Tactically Clueless

[dingrfc]

ok guys im looking for some good formations that have good attacking but also good defending i seem to concede alot of goals espiecially from crosses and counter attacks so would appreciate some help from u wonderful people wether its ur own tactics or links to other peoples tactics it wud be much apprieciated i do prefer a formation with wingers but willing to change if this is seen as a weakness 

[herne79]

Welcome to the forum .

There's a whole section dedicated to people sharing their tactics found here https://community.sigames.com/forum/67-tactics-sharing-centre-uploaddownload/.

Take a look, I'm sure you'll find something you'll like.

[dingrfc]

thanks for the reply i have had a look but still unsure my main aim of this post was maybe gets conversation going with people on there experiences with the tactics so i can maybe find whats best for me if thats ok pal 

[Initalwa]

One thing i recently learned is how amr and aml doesnt track back defensively enough and this causes the full back to often be overloaded with 2 players. And thus crosses come in more often and so, many goals created from crosses.

Then i put back my wingers to ml mr and they tracked back fine like i wanted.

 

Idk if its true but imo aml and amr is for wide forwards kind of player not a winger type, cus i think the main purpose of the position is to cut inside to the middle and support the forwards. Thats why its named wide forwards i think not wingers.

And also i learned that fullback supporting the winger is essential in creating width, otherwise your winger is isolated against the opposition. Of course it depends on the opposition formation; if they use 532 with only wingbacks on the flanks then maybe your wingers are fine.

 

Also it kinda puzzles me how target man is always intercepted in my team of aston villa. The enemy just seem to be so numerous around him when the ball is up in the air and always get intercepted,this frustates me because i have an amazing target man at villa yet i cant get him to be involved reliably enough in the play. Hes more of a liabilty more than an asset. i guess i have to pull away the players around my target man but.... Anyway this is already too long im just rambling out my thoughts here 

[herne79]

29 minutes ago, Initalwa said:

One thing i recently learned is how amr and aml doesnt track back defensively enough and this causes the full back to often be overloaded with 2 players. And thus crosses come in more often and so, many goals created from crosses.

This is 100% down to your tactical settings and/or your players' own attributes.

For example, play someone with a low work rate, give him an attack duty at AML/R and set a high risk mentality such as attacking and he won't track back that much - because you're not asking him to and his low work rate is encouraging him not to.

[Initalwa]

13 minutes ago, herne79 said:

This is 100% down to your tactical settings and/or your players' own attributes.

For example, play someone with a low work rate, give him an attack duty at AML/R and set a high risk mentality such as attacking and he won't track back that much - because you're not asking him to and his low work rate is encouraging him not to.

How do i ask them to track back?

[jc577]

33 minutes ago, Initalwa said:

How do i ask them to track back?

This depends on a variety of factors, such as team shape, mentality, duty and the player used in a particular role. 

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Initalwa said:

How do i ask them to track back?

You choose the right duty and play them within a shape that encourages them to get back. I have done videos explaining what Shape does. Did it for FM16 and its still relevant today. Essentially:

If you want everyone to sing the same song and play the same way and work as 1 unit then play on higher shape settings. Their mentality which basically affects a host of actions in the game is affected by their duties. So if you want players to come back they need to be on support duties. Whether they do or not will depend largely on their mentality and where they are playing on the pitch. Now choosing fluid or very fluid has its downsides too, so try and understand why you would choose to use different shapes and what it means for your transitions.

Say you are playing a 442 and you find that your 2 strikers aren't tracking back, chances are you will need to look at their roles/duties, shape and mentality to affect this. However even after all that whether they do or not depends on other attributes, such as determination work rate and teamwork. To answer your question succinctly, when you create a tactic, think of your support players as the spine, these are the ones you are expecting to see come back. Now go check their attributes to identify whether there is anything holding them back like a lack of determination, or stamina or work rate. Finally decide from your group of players what kind of system suits them the best. If you have a load of central midfielders who can all play as DMs then maybe a system that can field 3 MCs...etc. Ultimately it can be done. You can get as many as 9 players behind the ball in most cases, and everyone if you are strikerless.

[Preveza]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

This is 100% down to your tactical settings and/or your players' own attributes.

For example, play someone with a low work rate, give him an attack duty at AML/R and set a high risk mentality such as attacking and he won't track back that much - because you're not asking him to and his low work rate is encouraging him not to.

I disagree. Regardless of workrate etc, AMR/L players do not track back well enough, despite attributes. ML/R do a much better job at tracking back. ME issues which has been clearly represented on this forum. More ME issues compared to player attributes. Apologies if I have mistaken your post, but I am assuming you are saying that if a AMR/L has good workrate etc, they CAN in fact track back and provide defensive support and in transition? This is not the case. FM18 hopefully will improve this area

[herne79]

23 minutes ago, Preveza said:

I disagree. Regardless of workrate etc, AMR/L players do not track back well enough, despite attributes. ML/R do a much better job at tracking back. ME issues which has been clearly represented on this forum. More ME issues compared to player attributes. Apologies if I have mistaken your post, but I am assuming you are saying that if a AMR/L has good workrate etc, they CAN in fact track back and provide defensive support and in transition? This is not the case. FM18 hopefully will improve this area

No, you're not mistaken.  AML/R can and do indeed track back to provide defensive support.

The following sequence took me about 30 seconds to find:

Pic 1 is my AMR (Ariel) deep in the opposition half near the opposition fullback (Aogo).

Pic 2 a few seconds later at the half way line.

Pic 3 a few seconds further on again deep in our own half, still tracking the fullback.

Pic 4 is Ariel about to clear up from his own penalty area even though Aogo has started retreating.

Nothing tactically funny going on either - Standard / Flexible with Ariel given a support duty.  Also an honourable mention to our AML who has an attack duty - that's him in pic 4 at the top (as you look) of our penalty area, having tracked his opposite fullback all the way back (the red dot next to him).

If you have any further doubts, read @Rashidi's post above and check out his YT channel.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Preveza said:

I disagree. Regardless of workrate etc, AMR/L players do not track back well enough, despite attributes. ML/R do a much better job at tracking back. ME issues which has been clearly represented on this forum. More ME issues compared to player attributes. Apologies if I have mistaken your post, but I am assuming you are saying that if a AMR/L has good workrate etc, they CAN in fact track back and provide defensive support and in transition? This is not the case. FM18 hopefully will improve this area

You are just using the wrong shape settings and the wrong duties, my AMs track back. Naturally it depends on your mentality.  While ML/MR are more effective at providing cover, the AMs do track back.  I was playing an entire season using a 4231 where the only player who wasn't behind the defensive line was the lone striker.  I played a match in the champions league and I had them tracking back for nearly the entire second half when I needed to hold on to a lead. There is nothing wrong with how they track back.  What they may have issues with isn't them tracking back, its how they handle the half space defending. I think I even featured that game on Youtube. Gloucester had one season where we played like that.., its not hard to do, in fact its too easy. It makes certain types of systems a bit too overpowered in the game.

[HUNT3R]

Given that the formation in FM is the defensive shape, choosing an advanced position such as a AML/AMR and giving him an Attack Duty, you cannot expect him to come too deep. They're there for a reason and can be deadly when there's a change of possession and their marker was a little too adventurous.

[NabsKebabs]

Yep, to get AML/R to track back requires some attention. On support duty they should track back but on attack duty you probably need to give the PI mark tighter. I have started dropping my AML/R to the midfield strata in most of my tactics, particularly as I like counter attacking football. You can get wide midfielders acting like inside forwards by giving them the PI to cut inside and dribble more.