Ahmdfjraz Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 My team is Eastleigh with white shirt. Focus on the player in the right flank. The full-back one. Thats Hakeem Odoffin, my first-team right full-back. And what happened there is just chaotic. Why? Cause there is no single reason i can find in my logical why he should run to the center and chase that player WHEN my instructions, very clear, was mark TIGHTER their left winger, Pickering, yes the one who scored later, the one he just left off. This kinda glitch is what makes the game so frustrating. Macclesfield_vs_Eastleigh_-_66_minutes_-_Data_Anal.mp4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I can't see your pic/vid/whatever but its a fair bet your problem is: A) Man marking a specific player and the player swapped position via either instructions or a sub. B) Man marking a position and the opposition either switched formation or a sub messed up the instruction. As a general rule don't use specific man marking as it can mess up how you defend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 indeed, no excuses for such decision individual instructions or not. yet, are you sure the player who scored is the man who is supposed to be marked by the full back? maybe he switched position with central midfielder (it looks like the RB runs towards man he is man marking). however, even if he did switch position, right back shouldn+t be so brain dead to actually follow that instruction in this case. it is a bug you might want to log into bug forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmdfjraz Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said: I can't see your pic/vid/whatever but its a fair bet your problem is: A) Man marking a specific player and the player swapped position via either instructions or a sub. B) Man marking a position and the opposition either switched formation or a sub messed up the instruction. As a general rule don't use specific man marking as it can mess up how you defend. Yeah, i dont know how to post the video, do you have any idea? A) Their player didnt swap position B) I already double checked it, its him. Pickering, AML. Yeah it could be sometimes, but that **** was truly a glitch. The left back, who probably the one closed down that CM if it really supposed to, is doing just fine marking the right winger. And btw, this Pickering scored a hattrick in this game, so you know why i marked him. Also he's got pretty deadly off the ball movement, which at the end cause me that goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmdfjraz Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, MBarbaric said: indeed, no excuses for such decision individual instructions or not. yet, are you sure the player who scored is the man who is supposed to be marked by the full back? maybe he switched position with central midfielder (it looks like the RB runs towards man he is man marking). however, even if he did switch position, right back shouldn+t be so brain dead to actually follow that instruction in this case. it is a bug you might want to log into bug forums. 100% sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 seems bad... no one was closing down the ball from your defence, so seems he thought he could get there when he obviously couldnt. at the same time, he was already further ahead of the player you wanted him to mark, so doing a bad job there. the player he is marking checks his run, and waits for the defender to think there is no problem on his side, then when he is gone just jogs through. so the problems are, from a not as frustrated opinion are 1 - your right back was attacking more than he was marking. is he on an attacking mentality? he definitely doesnt think he is defending at the time! 2 - your central defenders back off, waiting for some one else to win the ball. everyone else is too far forward. pretty standard counter attack, with huge numbers. 3 - because your defenders are so outnumbered, they can not commit. this is why your full back, presumably, tries to close down. he knows your central defenders won't, and foolishly tries to himself 4 - when the ball is played from the opposition right, you have 5 (FIVE!!) blue shirts against your 2 white. the right back is still chasing the ball, because you have no other defenders doing so 5 - your central defenders keep failing to commit and backing off, while also failing to effectively cover all 5 players. your left back just gives up. your right back tries to follow play and cover the 2 blue shirts left open by your central defenders carrying on backing off. 6 - your central defenders, now being supported by your right back, still fail to commit. look like they are shell shocked and don't know what to do. Pickering takes advantage and finishes nicely There is no glitch, at best you were caught out by a great counter. at worse you have no defensive shape, no covering players, no protection out wide on either flank. your players at the start of the counter - right back - in a right wing position. at least he tries to help... left back - in a left wing position. gives up tracking before goal midfield center right - loses ball, with no support behind him midfield center left - just keeps running forward to support a dead attack, reacts slowly and gives up tracking back front 4 - you have a front 4? all lined up on edge of Macclesfield box, obviously don't care about any defensive play. stay on half way line almost... only leaves your 2 central defenders. again, against FIVE blue shirts. this is not a glitch, but suicidal defending on your part. this time you payed for it. and if you don't change how many players you throw forward, you should expect this to happen to you regulary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmdfjraz Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, lemeuresnew said: seems bad... no one was closing down the ball from your defence, so seems he thought he could get there when he obviously couldnt. at the same time, he was already further ahead of the player you wanted him to mark, so doing a bad job there. the player he is marking checks his run, and waits for the defender to think there is no problem on his side, then when he is gone just jogs through. so the problems are, from a not as frustrated opinion are 1 - your right back was attacking more than he was marking. is he on an attacking mentality? he definitely doesnt think he is defending at the time! 2 - your central defenders back off, waiting for some one else to win the ball. everyone else is too far forward. pretty standard counter attack, with huge numbers. 3 - because your defenders are so outnumbered, they can not commit. this is why your full back, presumably, tries to close down. he knows your central defenders won't, and foolishly tries to himself 4 - when the ball is played from the opposition right, you have 5 (FIVE!!) blue shirts against your 2 white. the right back is still chasing the ball, because you have no other defenders doing so 5 - your central defenders keep failing to commit and backing off, while also failing to effectively cover all 5 players. your left back just gives up. your right back tries to follow play and cover the 2 blue shirts left open by your central defenders carrying on backing off. 6 - your central defenders, now being supported by your right back, still fail to commit. look like they are shell shocked and don't know what to do. Pickering takes advantage and finishes nicely There is no glitch, at best you were caught out by a great counter. at worse you have no defensive shape, no covering players, no protection out wide on either flank. your players at the start of the counter - right back - in a right wing position. at least he tries to help... left back - in a left wing position. gives up tracking before goal midfield center right - loses ball, with no support behind him midfield center left - just keeps running forward to support a dead attack, reacts slowly and gives up tracking back front 4 - you have a front 4? all lined up on edge of Macclesfield box, obviously don't care about any defensive play. stay on half way line almost... only leaves your 2 central defenders. again, against FIVE blue shirts. this is not a glitch, but suicidal defending on your part. this time you payed for it. and if you don't change how many players you throw forward, you should expect this to happen to you regulary Wait, this is makes sense. You're right. I was actually 3-2 down at the moment, and i tried to break them, so yeah i put the full back in attacking. Thank you, this is what i want, explanation. Stupid from me. Also, i make the defender into DCB Cover, is that has a part in this too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ahmdfjraz said: Also, i make the defender into DCB Cover, is that has a part in this too? yep. cover duty will encourage them to drop off and avoid commiting themselves in case they miss. so them backing off has to encourage others to close down. like your full back tried to do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 It is clear from the video that the RB is trying to man mark one of the players who is attacking through the middle. He follows his run, but either does not have the pace or stamina to get close to him. This is definitely a case of messed up man marking instructions, there is no other way to get that kind of behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 7 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said: It is clear from the video that the RB is trying to man mark one of the players who is attacking through the middle. He follows his run, but either does not have the pace or stamina to get close to him. This is definitely a case of messed up man marking instructions, there is no other way to get that kind of behaviour. no, dont think so. he is trying to close down play due to the central defenders backing off. nearer the end, he tries to cover players nearer him, as the central defender is still covering the ball. no man marking issue at all in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 19 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said: no, dont think so. he is trying to close down play due to the central defenders backing off. nearer the end, he tries to cover players nearer him, as the central defender is still covering the ball. no man marking issue at all in my opinion. Ah managed to open the video now. It could be high closing down combined with high attributes such as work rate causing it but it could also be man marking instructions. Difficult to tell which from that move. If its man marking he seems to want to mark the guy (ST?) who makes the pass out right from around the half way line but with a big gap between the guy who loses the ball and the player we are talking about he does make a concerted early effort to come across. I think it would need someone from SI to look under the hood at the PKM to establish which. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 34 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said: Ah managed to open the video now. It could be high closing down combined with high attributes such as work rate causing it but it could also be man marking instructions. Difficult to tell which from that move. If its man marking he seems to want to mark the guy (ST?) who makes the pass out right from around the half way line but with a big gap between the guy who loses the ball and the player we are talking about he does make a concerted early effort to come across. I think it would need someone from SI to look under the hood at the PKM to establish which. i just dont know how you can say it is a man marking issue, when the full back is on attack in the winger position? in recent posts, i was told all player instructions are in or out possession, so man marking is the same? they never get into a proper defensive shape, so even if it is a man marking issue it cannot apply to a quick transition like that? also, having his central defenders on cover increases other players having to close down right? looks like a combination of problems from him throwing everyone forward late on than a specific problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, lemeuresnew said: i just dont know how you can say it is a man marking issue, when the full back is on attack in the winger position? in recent posts, i was told all player instructions are in possession, so man marking is the same? they never get into a proper defensive shape, so even if it is a man marking issue it cannot apply to a quick transition like that? also, having his central defenders on cover increases other players having to close down right? looks like a combination of problems from him throwing everyone forward late on than a specific problem Who told you all instructions were in possession???? You either misunderstood or they were simply wrong. All instructions are relevant to the phase of play you would expect them to be. Players clearly don't man mark when they are in possession, that would just be stupid. A player with a specific man marking instruction will immediately go to that man when you lose the ball irrelevant of what is happening around him. Thats why experienced users don't use the instruction and yes its an issue that FM has had for years. An easy way to prove this is take a DC set him to man mark an opposition DL or something then watch what happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said: Who told you all instructions were in possession???? You either misunderstood or they were simply wrong. All instructions are relevant to the phase of play you would expect them to be. Players clearly don't man mark when they are in possession, that would just be stupid. A player with a specific man marking instruction will immediately go to that man when you lose the ball irrelevant of what is happening around him. Thats why experienced users don't use the instruction and yes its an issue that FM has had for years. An easy way to prove this is take a DC set him to man mark an opposition DL or something then watch what happens. i thought this is why counters acted differently? i have never liked specific man marking, im a Rafa guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 You come to very strange conclusions. My word. Never did I say that all instructions are in possession. In fact, I specifically said the opposite in that post. "We only indirectly control transitions, so instructions are either in possession or out of possession instructions" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 is that not what i just said? he isnt in a defensive or attacking phase, he just doesnt have time to recover Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said: is that not what i just said? he isnt in a defensive or attacking phase, he just doesnt have time to recover No, it's clearly not what you said. You very clearly said : in recent posts, i was told all player instructions are in possession, so man marking is the same? Which is 1. false and 2. not what I said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Just now, HUNT3R said: Which is 1. false and 2. not what I said. sorry, ment in or out of possession. did put your quote up, which is why i was confused you were arguing with your own quote lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 regardless, i dont think you can put anything down to a failing marking system alone when you are in a 5 vs 2 situation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 25 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said: i thought this is why counters acted differently? i have never liked specific man marking, im a Rafa guy The only way counters are different are for the team doing the countering (ie in possession and attacking). As I understand it when a counter is triggered the mentality of the players attacking changes temp to a high level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said: The only way counters are different are for the team doing the countering (ie in possession and attacking). As I understand it when a counter is triggered the mentality of the players attacking changes temp to a high level. that would make sense. and explain why the defenders carry on trying to cover instead of attack the ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, lemeuresnew said: that would make sense. and explain why the defenders carry on trying to cover instead of attack the ball it is difficult to comment on FM behaviour as we know little about how the game actually works under the hood and what are decisions players make. From a strictly "footballing" perspective, it would be completely plausible not to close down the player on the ball when defenders are outnumbered. in fact, defenders should delay the opposition in this situation giving time for their team mates to track back. from this point of view, the behaviour of that RB is even less comprehensive. if he simply went back tracking his man the defence would be in much better position. not that it would prevent the goal but it would certainly not expose the whole flank. I don't say it doesn't happen, but it makes no sense for RB to go centrally as the defending team already has players there and he needlessly exposes his flank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, MBarbaric said: it is difficult to comment on FM behaviour as we know little about how the game actually works under the hood and what are decisions players make. From a strictly "footballing" perspective, it would be completely plausible not to close down the player on the ball when defenders are outnumbered. in fact, defenders should delay the opposition in this situation giving time for their team mates to track back. from this point of view, the behaviour of that RB is even less comprehensive. if he simply went back tracking his man the defence would be in much better position. not that it would prevent the goal but it would certainly not expose the whole flank. I don't say it doesn't happen, but it makes no sense for RB to go centrally as the defending team already has players there and he needlessly exposes his flank. yes and no. if the team is told to perform a high press, and close down more, then the right back has to decide between 2 contradicting instructions. couple that with the fact there were already 2 covering defenders, and the whole thing is a mess. he didnt go back tracking his man, because he was higher up the pitch than the left winger. the left winger held his run quite well, so he simply ran past him to the next threat also, with that high a defensive line, where he originally tried to reach seems to be where a high defensive line 'should' start closing down according to the games description of a high line, though not sure about how literal to take things. which is a shame. yet with the covering defenders, it encourages the right back to do it for them even if this is a man marking issue, it is completely caused by the OP chasing the game and leaving 2 covering defenders back too high up the pitch. the right back simply cannot man mark the left winger and close down at the half way line by himself. especially from a right wingers start point. if he had waited to see what the left winger did, instead of try to help, he would of probably never kept up i feel sorry for the guy, he is getting a lot of blame for a no win situation here lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmdfjraz Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, lemeuresnew said: i feel sorry for the guy, he is getting a lot of blame for a no win situation here lol you mean the right back? well, i think, if he just stay with his man, it could be a different story, but he's not. It's my fault tho, like you said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 if youre a goal down you try things some times thing i would avoid most is the 2 players on cover myself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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