Hint and tips guide FM08

[Joor]

Something I would like to see in this year version is a detailed description of every attributes. The manual tell us nothing(what happend to the huge 200+ page manual we saw a few year ago?).

Concentration, teamwork, bravery etc etc...everyone know that passing = how well a player pass the ball, its easy to see in the match engine. But some attributes are not so obvious.

[Joor]

Something I would like to see in this year version is a detailed description of every attributes. The manual tell us nothing(what happend to the huge 200+ page manual we saw a few year ago?).

Concentration, teamwork, bravery etc etc...everyone know that passing = how well a player pass the ball, its easy to see in the match engine. But some attributes are not so obvious.

[Ched]

I think the problem is how simplisticly some people treat the stats.

As a recent example i was debating this the other day:

The manual needs to make it clear that pace is not simply how quickly a player runs (as in fifa or pro evo) but how quickly the player CAN run IF he wants to. The fact that there are several stats that influence how fast the player actually gets is not made clear in the manual (at least iirc) and could be the source of confusion.

As they stand i think they are fairly obvious individually, i think their interaction is where new users can get confused.

Just using your examples, can you really claim that concentration, bravery and team work aren't fairly self explanatory?

[Joor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Just using your examples, can you really claim that concentration, bravery and team work aren't fairly self explanatory? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes ? , is teamwork important for a striker ? whats the difference between 20 and 1 - can you see a difference in the Match engine, I cant...

Bravery, why is this attribute free for strikers? Isnt it how often a player try and get the 50/50 ball on the ground or in the air ..get in where it hurts?

I have done tests with forwards - they win just as meny headers with 1 bravery compared to 20 in the opponents area.

Concentration - why do I see some forwards with 17-18 in this attribute when its a defensive attribute.

I could go on and on, but SI should really make a detailed description ..tnx.

[Ched]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joor:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Just using your examples, can you really claim that concentration, bravery and team work aren't fairly self explanatory? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes ? , is teamwork important for a striker ? whats the difference between 20 and 1 - can you see a difference in the Match engine, I cant...

Bravery, why is this attribute free for strikers? Isnt it how often a player try and get the 50/50 ball on the ground or in the air ..get in where it hurts?

I have done tests with forwards - they win just as meny headers with 1 bravery compared to 20 in the opponents area.

Concentration - why do I see some forwards with 17-18 in this attribute when its a defensive attribute.

I could go on and on, but SI should really make a detailed description ..tnx. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to use your examples again,

Teamwork - can be interpreted as "how much a player takes notice of team orders" or "how well he performs as part of a team" - either is generally correct, and fairly logical.

In the case of a striker, low team work will end up with a stupidly greedy striker, who won't consider any team members (think baros).

Bravery - i was under the impression that it did matter for strikers - if the only thing you changed was bravery, and the players other stats were high, then it probably wouldn't have that much of an impact, imo it does effect forwards performances, albeit in a minor way.

Concentration - it is not just a defensive attribute. If a CF has low concentration, then when a chance drops to him in the 91st minute will he be paying attention?

The descriptions do not need to be more detailed, people just need to apply a bit of common sense to them, everything can be taken to a very logical conclusion.

[Joor]

Bravery is;

How willing defenders are to charge down a shot, get themself between the ball and goal, block shots etc..also in the air ..like "throws himself in front of the header" and "gets across to charge down the header".

Same with goalkeepers, who charge out and block the shot with his body.

When you edit a defenders bravery in the editor, it takes up CA points, but not for strikers or even midfielders!.

Did you know that teamwork is free for central defenders ?

Concentration, well Pato got 8 (I havnt trained him in defending for 2 years) and he still make last mins goals all season..

[theboywonder]

its really not rocket science determining what the attributes mean and how they work together, it really is common sense.

to give a few examples:

pace and acceleration need to go together. if you are quick but it takes you ages to get up to speed it wont work, like wise its no good getting up to top speed quickly if your top speed is crap.

passing - good passing means the player wont give the ball away, but if you want him to make key passes then surely you need to be creative as well?

finishing - now i'm a good finisher when i have a kick about, thats because i've got time and space to think about it with no pressure. what do you need to get that time, space and cope under pressure. Perhaps anticipation would get you in the right place at the right time, off the ball would also help, and composure would stop you buckling under the pressure.

heading - how can you head the ball if you cant jump high enough to win it in the first place.

see, if you think about it then it really isnt that difficult to understand.

there are some stats that help with everything. for example i dont buy players with any phyical attributes below 10, and i also like my players to have teamwork, determination, work rate, first touch and decisions. they are just good attribtues that you would want any footballer in any position to have in real life so why not in a game?

[Joor]

Pff.. theboywonder, everyone know what finishing and passing does.

I want to know excatly what EVERY attributes does in the match engine.

[theboywonder]

you want to know exactly what each attribute does? Like i said, is not self explanatory and pretty much common sense. All that would be in a manual if it was is the following:

Technical Attributes

Corners – The players ability to take corners. The higher the attribute the more likely he will be to find his target on delivery in the match engine.

Crossing - The players ability to cross the ball in open play. The higher the attribute the more likely he will be to find his target on delivery in the match engine. A cross is defined as ball played from a wide position into the box.

Dribbling – The players ability to run with the ball. The higher the attribute the more likely he will be to maintain possession whilst running with the ball in the match engine. High dribbling doesn’t mean you always dribble past your opponent, other attributes such as acceleration, pace, balance and technique should be considered to achieve this.

Finishing – The players ability to hit the target with his shots in the match engine. High finishing isn’t all that is important to score, a complete striker would also need attributes such as anticipation, off the ball and composure to create the time and space to score goals.

First Touch – How well a player is able to control a ball that is passed to him in the match engine. High first touch means the player is capable of controlling difficult, longer passes and maintaining possession. Low first touch means he is only capable of controlling easier, shorter passes, otherwise he risks losing possession.

Free Kicks – The players ability to take a free kick. The type of free kick will depend on other attributes, high long shots will increase the players chance of scoring direct whilst high crossing will provide a better delivery into the box. A player with high attributes in all these areas would be ideal for free kicks.

Heading – The players ability to win headers. The higher the attribute the more likely he will be to win the header. Other attributes such as jumping, bravery and determination are also important, and high attributes in all these areas will increase your players chance of winning headers.

I could go on but its pretty straightforward. what more do you want? theres nothing else to. what exactly more do you want, something along the lines of:

for a striker to score in excess of 30 goals a season you require the following attributes xxx to be above xxx. This will enable the stiker to do xxx which will make him score goals for fun and you will win the league.

[Aytumious]

The attributes you listed are completely self explanatory, theboywonder.

Why not list what effects the other attributes have and how important they are for specific positions. Will my CB with high flair try to do something crazy on defense, or does that attribute not really matter for them? How important is bravery for a ST? How important is work rate for offensive players? How much does influence really matter? Do I play a player with slightly worse overall attributes because he has has slightly higher determination, work rate, and team work attributes?

Everyone knows what heading is. Its not clear what impact a lot of the attributes actually have in game.

[Ljuba82]

Very good post!!!

It's time for SI to release such informations.

Attributes are not self-explainatory, the same is with tactics (for example if everything is same...like in manual few years ago...one specific tactics should be the same in every FM version...bringing similar results...but it isn't true. From version to version same tactics have different results and players behave differently. Well it's just not realistic, in RL one tactic is one tactic. For example...in previous version of FM it's good to have your defenders on low closing down, in this version such aproach is disaster!!!

So SI...if you already don't stick with one ME...then relese some comprehensive manual...for example 300+ pages).

[Joor]

Why is it such a big problem to use 4-5 pages in the manual, where SI explain what each attribute is good for ?

[Patje.lol]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboywonder:

Heading – The players ability to win headers. The higher the attribute the more likely he will be to win the header. Other attributes such as jumping, bravery and determination are also important, and high attributes in all these areas will increase your players chance of winning headers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always thought Anticipation was important aswell for heading. IRL some players that aren't good jumpers, still win headers because they're able to anticipate when they need to be in the air. Or when attacking/defending a corner.

[Joor]

Anticipation is the ability to read the opponents game, where the ball is going to be played..so yes its important.

But when two players challenge for the ball in the air, strength and jumping is vital.

Heading, is how well a player control the ball.

[Michael F]

It's a bit out dated but it might be some use

[trekman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what happend to the huge 200+ page manual we saw a few year ago?). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon who honestly reads their manuals? I know that I wouldn't read a manual with 200+ pages.

[MrPompey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what happend to the huge 200+ page manual we saw a few year ago?). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon who honestly reads their manuals? I know that I wouldn't read a manual with 200+ pages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A 200 page manual doesn't have to be read back to back but its got an index and can be referred to for specific queries. Invaluable I'd say

[trekman]

its got an index and can be referred to for specific queries.[/quote

While this is true I would much rather learn by getting stuck right in rather than having to stop and look through a manual. Anyway there is actually something much better than any manual that can be produced. I am of course talking about this wonderful forum and its highly knowledgeable users.

[crazyscotsman]

I have been asking for over a month with no luck to get definitions for the Tactical Attributes listed in the Data Editor. This needs to be listed in a guide somewhere???

[MrPompey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

its got an index and can be referred to for specific queries.[/quote

While this is true I would much rather learn by getting stuck right in rather than having to stop and look through a manual. Anyway there is actually something much better than any manual that can be produced. I am of course talking about this wonderful forum and its highly knowledgeable users. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats very interesting but you weren't asking the original question

[immateriaux]

Think it would indeed be nice to know exactly what attributes affected what positions, and to what degree. I don't think there's a need to be obscure about such: e.g. it doesn't make anyone more hard core to be playing in the dark ...

I had a brief play around with FifaManager 08 (which I didn't like, but that's tangential) and some good ideas were present there. One was a colour coding of the various attributes for player's positions (eg for a striker, finishing in red, tackling yellow, or some such). If you changed the position, the colours changed. This helped to get a sense of players strengths quite quickly for each position. I don't think colour coding would necessarily work in FM but knowing that "composure" was pointless in the game for a defender say, even though logically in real life it is quite important, would be very useful and would enhance the enjoyment of playing the game

[stevie_G_32201]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrPompey:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what happend to the huge 200+ page manual we saw a few year ago?). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon who honestly reads their manuals? I know that I wouldn't read a manual with 200+ pages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A 200 page manual doesn't have to be read back to back but its got an index and can be referred to for specific queries. Invaluable I'd say </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i very good point thats exactly what i would do i wouldnt only read the pages tht i needed to know about in this case i would love to know what every attrbute does

[boneykingofnowhere]

Joor, how'd you know that bravery is free for defenders or teamwork is free for centre backs? Anymore nuggets of knowledge to share?

Ive been asking to see the guide that the researchers get to evaluate the teams in FM as i reckon that will make things a lot clearer for all of us, not only on how players are rated but what the ratings actually mean!

here's hoping...