Training new position

[Trugdish]

This feature still does not work, I've had a defensive midfielder for 4 seasons since he was 19 training as a central midfielder and his position rating (viewed through official ingame editor) has not moved from 16 out of 20, in the same period of time his CA has improved by 40 points

 

How on earth are you supposed to retrain player positions? It's been an issue since the new position training was introduced, the old system worked fine

 

Please SI tell me how its supposed to work

[alanschu14]

I think it depends a lot their adaptability and I have definitely had some people take longer than I'd "expect" but it does happen. The move from 16-20 I find only comes with dedicated time in the position in matches (which I assume you are doing).

[Trugdish]

Yeah he's been playing CM for the past 4 seasons, sometimes I do wonder about SI, every year we get a new game but you must admit some things just don't get the right amount of attention

[alanschu14]

Hard for me to admit when my first version I played was last year's! 

 

[herne79]

16 out of 20 for position familiarity is perfectly fine.  The remaining 4 points really won't make a discernible difference.

If he hadn't progressed from being unfamiliar with the position, then I'd be concerned.

Your player is obviously developing well with that rate of CA gain, but be aware that increases in positional familiarity use up CA.  So instead of CA being used up by 4 almost worthless points of position familiarity, you'll be getting more out of attribute improvements.

[Cougar2010]

12 hours ago, Trugdish said:

This feature still does not work, I've had a defensive midfielder for 4 seasons since he was 19 training as a central midfielder and his position rating (viewed through official ingame editor) has not moved from 16 out of 20, in the same period of time his CA has improved by 40 points

 

How on earth are you supposed to retrain player positions? It's been an issue since the new position training was introduced, the old system worked fine

Are you playing him at MC?

Pretty sure SI changed it in a recent version so that a player had to play regularly in the new position to gain the last few points.

[Trugdish]

Yes he's been played at MC and I'm sorry herne79 but your reply is nonsence. He's training at MC so I want him to improve at MC or at least feedback from the game why he can't improve

[alanschu14]

16 minutes ago, Trugdish said:

I'm sorry herne79 but your reply is nonsence

Eh.... why is Accomplished not good enough? (I often play players in positions they are only "accomplished" in and they do just fine.

[Trugdish]

Just now, alanschu14 said:

Eh.... why is Accomplished not good enough? (I often play players in positions they are only "accomplished" in and they do just fine.

Well fine yeah its 'good enough'

 

But the player has been training that position for 4 years why can't I expect him to be a natural at it now

[Cougar2010]

1 minute ago, Trugdish said:

Well fine yeah its 'good enough'

 

But the player has been training that position for 4 years why can't I expect him to be a natural at it now

In which case its down to hidden attributes and basically the versatility attribute which defines how easily/well he can learn other positions.

 

[Trugdish]

1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said:

In which case its down to hidden attributes and basically the versatility attribute which defines how easily/well he can learn other positions.

 

His versatility is 16, its a bug, or at the very least it needs addressing.

 

When I take him off Central Midfielder role training he reverts to position training DM, he's never played at DM, so for me this a bug

[Cougar2010]

4 minutes ago, Trugdish said:

His versatility is 16, its a bug, or at the very least it needs addressing.

Stick it in the bugs forum then and SI will review it.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Trugdish said:

When I take him off Central Midfielder role training he reverts to position training DM, he's never played at DM, so for me this a bug

???

He trains what you set him unless you have set a member of staff to arrange training.

[lemeuresnew]

7 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

He trains what you set him unless you have set a member of staff to arrange training.

if you are retraining to a new position, then taking him off that position reverts the player to his 'natural' position, not the one you play him in 

14 minutes ago, Trugdish said:

His versatility is 16, its a bug, or at the very least it needs addressing.

 

i think a 16 versatility should be good enough to reach a natural rating personally. but then, you are only really getting caught up in a cosmetic difference. there is no real noticable difference from an accomplished and natural player if he has the right attributes. i had thiago maia train in the same way as you for 7 years once and never reach natural. really annoying, but still one of the best players on the pitch though

 

[Cougar2010]

35 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said:

if you are retraining to a new position, then taking him off that position reverts the player to his 'natural' position, not the one you play him in

???

If you change the position/role training of a player you have to select another position/role.  There isn't an option to select nothing so you are in control of what happens unless you set a member of staff to do it.

[lemeuresnew]

1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said:

???

If you change the position/role training of a player you have to select another position/role.  There isn't an option to select nothing so you are in control of what happens unless you set a member of staff to do it.

you can select to leave it clear rather than an actual role, like it is at the start of a save. assume that is what he means

[Cougar2010]

1 minute ago, lemeuresnew said:

you can select to leave it clear rather than an actual role, like it is at the start of a save. assume that is what he means

On which screen?

On the player development screen with the default UI you have to select an option or at least I have to.  You can't actually leave it like it is when you join a club.

[lemeuresnew]

4 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

On which screen?

On the player development screen with the default UI you have to select an option or at least I have to.  You can't actually leave it like it is when you join a club.

on the player training screen. if you select playing position at the top of the position drop down, it clears the roles being trained. so if i am playing my dm in cm, it still trains him as dm instead of a cm. you can leave this and select this option at any point during the game. i have never made any UI changes, so assume it is there on yours?

 

[Cougar2010]

Ok below is a cropped pic of a player training screen.  I can select any position and any role from the pop up to the right or I can select the option at the top.  Now for this player the option at the top is for WBR despite the fact he has very little experience there and isn't playing there.  None of my three tactics set for this team use a WB, all three use a flat back four.  However whether you use the top option or not you still have to select an option.

 

[lemeuresnew]

2 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

However whether you use the top option or not you still have to select an option.

i understand this. but the point the op'er is making is that if it says playing position it should be his playing position

the option is there to make things easier for people - it trains the player according to your tactic. and it clearly does not work. i have no problem with that, i micro manage far too much to train like that  . but i can also see why it is either annoying for other people, or clearly not labeled properly if that is not what it is supposed to do

[Trugdish]

Just now, lemeuresnew said:

i understand this. but the point the op'er is making is that if it says playing position it should be his playing position

the option is there to make things easier for people - it trains the player according to your tactic. and it clearly does not work. i have no problem with that, i micro manage far too much to train like that  . but i can also see why it is either annoying for other people, or clearly not labeled properly if that is not what it is supposed to do

Without training a role and leaving it to default playing position as show in the screen shot above

Training will change to the position the players is being used after 4-5 games, however its not the case with my DM being played at CM

[Cougar2010]

2 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said:

i understand this. but the point the op'er is making is that if it says playing position it should be his playing position

the option is there to make things easier for people - it trains the player according to your tactic. and it clearly does not work. i have no problem with that, i micro manage far too much to train like that  . but i can also see why it is either annoying for other people, or clearly not labeled properly if that is not what it is supposed to do

Ok I can see that.

But he is still selecting an option.

So he looks at the training screen sees the top option is DM when he wants MC but still selects it???? Why?

[lemeuresnew]

10 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Ok I can see that.

But he is still selecting an option.

So he looks at the training screen sees the top option is DM when he wants MC but still selects it???? Why?

well he is clearly stating it is a bug mate because it doesnt work lol

another thing that confuses me with this is how a dm can be a natural (full pie circle) dlp. yet in the cm position, he is 2 sections short. same role, same attributes, yet less recommendation. and he is able to be a natural b2b midfielder. no logic there at all

again, only cosmetic appearance but still annoying

[Trugdish]

3 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said:

well he is clearly stating it is a bug mate because it doesnt work lol

another thing that confuses me with this is how a dm can be a natural (full pie circle) dlp. yet in the cm position, he is 2 sections short. same role, same attributes, yet less recommendation. and he is able to be a natural b2b midfielder. no logic there at all

again, only cosmetic appearance but still annoying

Yeah I think it definitely is a bug, whereas in the past you told the player which position you wanted to train in (and it always got to natural eventually 20/20 position rating)

The last few versions rely on the game recognising where a player is played to get past 16/20, and from my experience in the last few versions it's not very good at it, mainly cosmetic maybe but annoying definitely

 

My main complaint is that it used to work fine in the past and this has been an issue I have seen written about for the last three versions. I do wonder how much work SI put into there games

[lemeuresnew]

1 minute ago, Trugdish said:

My main complaint is that it used to work fine in the past and this has been an issue I have seen written about for the last three versions. I do wonder how much work SI put into there games

i dont think the problem is the amount of work they do necessarily. it is a hell of a lot of work and there is a lot in the game to get right...

as long as things are only cosmetic i can accept them. would rather there be more attention to training in general, with more options. certain attributes never really developing etc would be more important

[alanschu14]

It definitely does happen:

If you think there's a bug I think you can submit it to the bug forum.  Might just be "bad luck" from time to time too though.