GOODBYE 3430 AM AP SS HOME AWAY FM17.3.2 Knap

[knap]

Tested with Spurs no OIs.

Home Control tactic

Away Counter Attack

 

A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE3430THP102APAMSSHOME_D780D141-D1AF-492C-A903-7CE1FD248639.fmf

A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE3430THP102APAMSSAWAY_F60C40C7-E95D-4AA5-B518-024865A21866.fmf

[Sith Lord]

Hi Knap

Really enjoying your previous 3430 tactic (won French league and cup double first season with Toulouse).  Brilliant work, thank you!

Fancy trying this one, how rigid do you stick to the Home and Away?  Would it depend on opposition or simply use Home when at Home and Away when Away?

Thanks again

Mike

[knap]

Counter is the better overall tactic, so I would use control for games you think you should win.

Can do the same with the SS Goodbye - In essence each increase in attacking mentality you decrease the tempo.

[Lodix]

hi, first thanks for the tactic.

who takes the corner ?

what to do if a man sent off ?

AMCL : Left foot or right ?
AMCR : Right foot of left ?

 

[knap]

I do not set up set piece takers.

Man down depends - if losing then 2 AMs, If winning consider changing to a SUS. Another option is a fwd and 1 AM. Can even change to a flat back 4, if so stop WB runs.

AMCL : Left foot 
AMCR : Right foot

but in my current squad they are all right footed. I tend to see which players do well in each position and then keep to that format, unless not working and then I change them around during match.

[Lodix]

TEAM A = 3430 counter

TEAM B = 3430 AM AP SS counter

[knap]

I do not trust that testing league because of the tampering with Reputation. Also the test is in holiday mode unlike MR Ls test.

It would also be useful to show home for control and away counter as the results should be better.

[Lodix]

you think 3430 counter is better than this tactic ? 

i'm playing with this tactic in me save with Marseille, it looks like better in defense than the other 3430

[dhadha]

3 hours ago, knap said:

Counter is the better overall tactic, so I would use control for games you think you should win.

Can do the same with the SS Goodbye - In essence each increase in attacking mentality you decrease the tempo.

hi there,

so do we use control when we are the favorite?

does this tactic work for second season and more? because I am having problems that second season is not as successful  as first season using your tactic (17.3.1 goodbye 3430 counter)

[knap]

Control for favorite should work.

The test above is with the worst team in that league but with a low Reputation. If you carry out same test now with a high Reputation the results will not be as good.

Your second season your Reputation has increased and this appears to be a driver for results not going as well. As I test with Spurs, a high reputation club, then having a higher reputation should not make much difference. If your club does well with a low Rep, then you may need better players for the 2nd season. This Reputation test is repeatable with a wide range of tactic formations, not just narrow.

I play seasons changing tactic every few games and a little variation in tactics may help.

Tactic wise I have only changed front 3 not defence, but the AM AP may help defensively. There is also a Goodbye with 3 AMs but 1 of my players decided AP was the role he wanted to play. 

[Lodix]

 

use counter at home and away, REALLY solid, i tested all your tactics, all TFF, zyndar, chinese's , koreans , italians ...

 

this is the best.

with this it's the end of conceded goals from cross.

[stefanopedini89]

Hi Knap, in your opinion this tactic work with instant result??

[knap]

Instant result should not be a problem. 

[w_x]

This is a great tactic, the 3 2 2 3 really seems to be the gamebreaker in this version

[QuickZombie]

Goodbye counter was great but this particularly the away version is a step up again. The attack hasn't reduced but whatever happened with the defence is brilliant. I've gone from mostly conceding 1 to my 3 or 4 to keeping a lot of cleansheets now!

[knap]

I only changed the attack, but I often find that tweaking attack helps defending and tweaking defence helps attacking.

[stefanopedini89]

Do you use an individual training for a roles?

[Lodix]

if i play at home but i'm not favorite, should i still use Control ?

[knap]

In real games I override and train roles.

Counter is the main tactic so I would use that if not favourite. With Spurs they should be favourite for all home games.

[stefanopedini89]

Sorry but i don't speack good english and i don't understand what mean "In real games I override and train roles" 

[knap]

I leave AM in charge but you can still train specific roles.

[stefanopedini89]

28 minutes ago, knap said:

I leave AM in charge but you can still train specific roles.

Thank you

[mischievouss]

Hi Knap.
I'm struggling to find suitable players for the wing back position. 
This that wrong to use full backs as wing backs?

 

Thanks

[knap]

Ben Davies is red at WB which is a nonsense. I good attacking FB should work fine with a little retraining. I find it hard in LL to pick up these types of players.

[knap]

A quick example of role misfits. The Left WB is Fish having a good game but is red for role (A WB with good finishing is helpful). A late sub is also red for role. Tactic being tested is a tweaked version of this tactic.

 

Same game but with DL

 

Stats from game and yes the AI had only 1 sot in both games!

 

 

[Thorminator]

Nice, great tactic Knap, I'd really like to see 3 man midfield and 2 man central defense 

[knap]

104 PTS so more than 3430 - not sure how this will work for underdog

A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE32530APAMSSP104_74849800-11DE-4390-A642-D7AA30EC9348.fmf

[KISSkin]

 

Hey. Thanks for the tactics. Will there be such tactics with the striker?

[KISSkin]

How do you think this is the best tactic?

[Thorminator]

18 minutes ago, KISSkin said:

How do you think this is the best tactic?

Dumb question but possibly one of the best.

 

20 minutes ago, KISSkin said:

 

Hey. Thanks for the tactics. Will there be such tactics with the striker?

He could make it but not much of a point due to tactics working better by being strikerless.

[knap]

With Goodbye there are 4231 451 442 Targetman tactics also WOF Enganche. In general strikerless will be better  (All based on independent tests)but the others should do fine with stronger teams.

Goodbye 3430 is the top independently tested tactic. Tested over 180 games with sub top and under dog teams and Journeyman 3421(striker tactic) pretty close in performance.

[knap]

Just to explain - GOODBYE Tactics use same underlying settings - WOF tactics uses different underlying settings. Journeyman is a cross between these tactic settings.

WOF tends to be better for top dog or sub top and GOODBYE Underdog.

[knap]

Test with Spurs 2530 tactic

 

[Thorminator]

I just love this guy, my favorite tactic creator, cheers to you friend 

[omrgul]

Hey knap, you are a genius!!!

My first impressions of this tactic COUNTER have been amazing.

One question though, I know you wrote there should be a relation maintained between Tempo and Mentality. However, if I have a physically weaker squad or in LLM for example, my squad physical condition goes below 60% even. 

If I reduce the tempo of COUNTER version from High -> Normal, will it effect tactic's performance too much. Please advise. I remember a few of your tactics with COUNTER and Normal tempo, e.g. Journeyman.

[knap]

I do not worry too much about condition, sub if you can or perhaps use a SUS tactic.

I had a final against Arsenal with a very tired West Ham team which shows you can still win.

[solounamigo]

19 hours ago, knap said:

Test with Spurs 2530 tactic

 

I decided to tweak this a little bit (put the AP(A) into the defensive middfield as anchor man, and I tweaked the team instructions).  Now it's something like 2620.

I managed to win everything with Middlebrough in the third season. Won the CL-final vs Bayern 6 - 0!

Amazing tactic mate!

[knap]

If you upload tactic I will have a look. 

[KISSkin]

 

 

Можете ли вы сделать эту тактику с нападающим? пожалуйста

[knap]

Could not read your question

[KISSkin]

Can you do just this tactic with the striker?

[knap]

It may be possible but sometimes it does not work that well because it changes the structure of tactic. If looking to play 2 AMs and a Fwd then there is GOODBYE 3421. Although this has 2 SS roles just use AMs. 

[KISSkin]

 

In this tactic, defense is much stronger. I wanted precisely this tactic

[knap]

It is stronger because of the set up of the 3 upfront, the defence has not changed. A tactic defends from the front to the back. If you change to add a fwd it will not work in same way

If you have a fwd you want to keep then retrain as the SS.

I can try to add a fwd but it may not defend as well as this formation.

[Thorminator]

Knap, what training should I use for the players and for the team? And should I let the match engine set up set pieces? 

[knap]

This is a post form TommiHelm with a record of 198 games without losing with GOODBYE

 

99% on counter. Sometimes I change to defensive just to keep the other teams guessing if I feel we're starting to not get the right results.

Training until tactic is 100% fluid:


Training after:


If you bring in any new player in January change back to the first one until it's fluid again.

- Individual training: GK=Goalkeeper, DC=Ball playing defender, WBR/L=Complete wing backs, MCR/L=Box-to-box midfielders, AMC/R/L=Trequartista.
- Do as many friendly matches as possible against weak teams before season starts.
- Get an assistant manager with as high motivating skill as possible. It's all I care about. I have him do team talks, pre-match interviews and tunnel interviews. I think this might be very important.
- Get as good coaches, physios and scouts as you can manage. Especially physios and coaches. Don't underestimate this.
- No OI, at all.
- Try to have 2 players in each position and setup two team selections for full rotation. Making sure everyone is at full match fitness all the time. Never play a player below 90% unless you have no other.
- After a match rest all the players that are below 90% for 2 days manually (mark them in the squad screen using shift/ctrl on keyboard and clicking them, right-click choose training and rest 2 days).
-.
- Fast attackers with "Play 1-2s" and good finishing or "Places shots" seem to be best for scoring goals. Midfielders should also be better at attacking then defending imo.

 

The above confirms the BWW position as a BBM, and in general I ignore the SI roles which included CDs or BPDs. I use BPDs in LL without problems but in this tactic BPDs have the edge

 

I tend to let ME decide but if you see an advantage when a specific player takes the, then add them and see what happens.

A few are using OI s so will post, but I do not see any advantage when testing.

[knap]

Strikerless OIs 

[solounamigo]

3 hours ago, knap said:

If you upload tactic I will have a look. 

Of course. I'm at work actually, later I'll share it :). You'll get it via PM. I think you should be able to make it even better.

Btw. for me all your tactics are working better without OI. 

[knap]

I try various OIs in testing and so far not found any benefit. However, it may depend upon team and level so I stay open minded if players find them helpfull.

[jusinho9]

On 14.8.2017 at 13:03, knap said:

104 PTS so more than 3430 - not sure how this will work for underdog

A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE32530APAMSSP104_74849800-11DE-4390-A642-D7AA30EC9348.fmf

 

Do you think that 2 CBs and an additional DLP could work in your "standard" GOODBYE 3430 and WOF 3430, too? At least for dop dogs?