knap Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Tested with Spurs no OIs. Home Control tactic Away Counter Attack A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE3430THP102APAMSSHOME_D780D141-D1AF-492C-A903-7CE1FD248639.fmf A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE3430THP102APAMSSAWAY_F60C40C7-E95D-4AA5-B518-024865A21866.fmf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Lord Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Hi Knap Really enjoying your previous 3430 tactic (won French league and cup double first season with Toulouse). Brilliant work, thank you! Fancy trying this one, how rigid do you stick to the Home and Away? Would it depend on opposition or simply use Home when at Home and Away when Away? Thanks again Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Counter is the better overall tactic, so I would use control for games you think you should win. Can do the same with the SS Goodbye - In essence each increase in attacking mentality you decrease the tempo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodix Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 hi, first thanks for the tactic. who takes the corner ? what to do if a man sent off ? AMCL : Left foot or right ? AMCR : Right foot of left ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 I do not set up set piece takers. Man down depends - if losing then 2 AMs, If winning consider changing to a SUS. Another option is a fwd and 1 AM. Can even change to a flat back 4, if so stop WB runs. AMCL : Left foot AMCR : Right foot but in my current squad they are all right footed. I tend to see which players do well in each position and then keep to that format, unless not working and then I change them around during match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodix Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 TEAM A = 3430 counter TEAM B = 3430 AM AP SS counter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 I do not trust that testing league because of the tampering with Reputation. Also the test is in holiday mode unlike MR Ls test. It would also be useful to show home for control and away counter as the results should be better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodix Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 you think 3430 counter is better than this tactic ? i'm playing with this tactic in me save with Marseille, it looks like better in defense than the other 3430 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhadha Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 3 hours ago, knap said: Counter is the better overall tactic, so I would use control for games you think you should win. Can do the same with the SS Goodbye - In essence each increase in attacking mentality you decrease the tempo. hi there, so do we use control when we are the favorite? does this tactic work for second season and more? because I am having problems that second season is not as successful as first season using your tactic (17.3.1 goodbye 3430 counter) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Control for favorite should work. The test above is with the worst team in that league but with a low Reputation. If you carry out same test now with a high Reputation the results will not be as good. Your second season your Reputation has increased and this appears to be a driver for results not going as well. As I test with Spurs, a high reputation club, then having a higher reputation should not make much difference. If your club does well with a low Rep, then you may need better players for the 2nd season. This Reputation test is repeatable with a wide range of tactic formations, not just narrow. I play seasons changing tactic every few games and a little variation in tactics may help. Tactic wise I have only changed front 3 not defence, but the AM AP may help defensively. There is also a Goodbye with 3 AMs but 1 of my players decided AP was the role he wanted to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodix Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 use counter at home and away, REALLY solid, i tested all your tactics, all TFF, zyndar, chinese's , koreans , italians ... this is the best. with this it's the end of conceded goals from cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanopedini89 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Hi Knap, in your opinion this tactic work with instant result?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Instant result should not be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_x Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 This is a great tactic, the 3 2 2 3 really seems to be the gamebreaker in this version Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickZombie Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Goodbye counter was great but this particularly the away version is a step up again. The attack hasn't reduced but whatever happened with the defence is brilliant. I've gone from mostly conceding 1 to my 3 or 4 to keeping a lot of cleansheets now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 I only changed the attack, but I often find that tweaking attack helps defending and tweaking defence helps attacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanopedini89 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Do you use an individual training for a roles? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodix Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 if i play at home but i'm not favorite, should i still use Control ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 In real games I override and train roles. Counter is the main tactic so I would use that if not favourite. With Spurs they should be favourite for all home games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanopedini89 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Sorry but i don't speack good english and i don't understand what mean "In real games I override and train roles" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 I leave AM in charge but you can still train specific roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanopedini89 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, knap said: I leave AM in charge but you can still train specific roles. Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mischievouss Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Hi Knap. I'm struggling to find suitable players for the wing back position. This that wrong to use full backs as wing backs? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ben Davies is red at WB which is a nonsense. I good attacking FB should work fine with a little retraining. I find it hard in LL to pick up these types of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 A quick example of role misfits. The Left WB is Fish having a good game but is red for role (A WB with good finishing is helpful). A late sub is also red for role. Tactic being tested is a tweaked version of this tactic. Same game but with DL Stats from game and yes the AI had only 1 sot in both games! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorminator Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Nice, great tactic Knap, I'd really like to see 3 man midfield and 2 man central defense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 104 PTS so more than 3430 - not sure how this will work for underdog A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE32530APAMSSP104_74849800-11DE-4390-A642-D7AA30EC9348.fmf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISSkin Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Hey. Thanks for the tactics. Will there be such tactics with the striker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISSkin Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 How do you think this is the best tactic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorminator Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, KISSkin said: How do you think this is the best tactic? Dumb question but possibly one of the best. 20 minutes ago, KISSkin said: Hey. Thanks for the tactics. Will there be such tactics with the striker? He could make it but not much of a point due to tactics working better by being strikerless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 With Goodbye there are 4231 451 442 Targetman tactics also WOF Enganche. In general strikerless will be better (All based on independent tests)but the others should do fine with stronger teams. Goodbye 3430 is the top independently tested tactic. Tested over 180 games with sub top and under dog teams and Journeyman 3421(striker tactic) pretty close in performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just to explain - GOODBYE Tactics use same underlying settings - WOF tactics uses different underlying settings. Journeyman is a cross between these tactic settings. WOF tends to be better for top dog or sub top and GOODBYE Underdog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Test with Spurs 2530 tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorminator Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I just love this guy, my favorite tactic creator, cheers to you friend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
omrgul Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Hey knap, you are a genius!!! My first impressions of this tactic COUNTER have been amazing. One question though, I know you wrote there should be a relation maintained between Tempo and Mentality. However, if I have a physically weaker squad or in LLM for example, my squad physical condition goes below 60% even. If I reduce the tempo of COUNTER version from High -> Normal, will it effect tactic's performance too much. Please advise. I remember a few of your tactics with COUNTER and Normal tempo, e.g. Journeyman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 I do not worry too much about condition, sub if you can or perhaps use a SUS tactic. I had a final against Arsenal with a very tired West Ham team which shows you can still win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
solounamigo Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 19 hours ago, knap said: Test with Spurs 2530 tactic I decided to tweak this a little bit (put the AP(A) into the defensive middfield as anchor man, and I tweaked the team instructions). Now it's something like 2620. I managed to win everything with Middlebrough in the third season. Won the CL-final vs Bayern 6 - 0! Amazing tactic mate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 If you upload tactic I will have a look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISSkin Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Можете ли вы сделать эту тактику с нападающим? пожалуйста Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Could not read your question Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISSkin Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Can you do just this tactic with the striker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 It may be possible but sometimes it does not work that well because it changes the structure of tactic. If looking to play 2 AMs and a Fwd then there is GOODBYE 3421. Although this has 2 SS roles just use AMs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISSkin Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 In this tactic, defense is much stronger. I wanted precisely this tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 It is stronger because of the set up of the 3 upfront, the defence has not changed. A tactic defends from the front to the back. If you change to add a fwd it will not work in same way If you have a fwd you want to keep then retrain as the SS. I can try to add a fwd but it may not defend as well as this formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorminator Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Knap, what training should I use for the players and for the team? And should I let the match engine set up set pieces? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 This is a post form TommiHelm with a record of 198 games without losing with GOODBYE 99% on counter. Sometimes I change to defensive just to keep the other teams guessing if I feel we're starting to not get the right results. Training until tactic is 100% fluid: Training after: If you bring in any new player in January change back to the first one until it's fluid again. - Individual training: GK=Goalkeeper, DC=Ball playing defender, WBR/L=Complete wing backs, MCR/L=Box-to-box midfielders, AMC/R/L=Trequartista. - Do as many friendly matches as possible against weak teams before season starts. - Get an assistant manager with as high motivating skill as possible. It's all I care about. I have him do team talks, pre-match interviews and tunnel interviews. I think this might be very important. - Get as good coaches, physios and scouts as you can manage. Especially physios and coaches. Don't underestimate this. - No OI, at all. - Try to have 2 players in each position and setup two team selections for full rotation. Making sure everyone is at full match fitness all the time. Never play a player below 90% unless you have no other. - After a match rest all the players that are below 90% for 2 days manually (mark them in the squad screen using shift/ctrl on keyboard and clicking them, right-click choose training and rest 2 days). -. - Fast attackers with "Play 1-2s" and good finishing or "Places shots" seem to be best for scoring goals. Midfielders should also be better at attacking then defending imo. The above confirms the BWW position as a BBM, and in general I ignore the SI roles which included CDs or BPDs. I use BPDs in LL without problems but in this tactic BPDs have the edge I tend to let ME decide but if you see an advantage when a specific player takes the, then add them and see what happens. A few are using OI s so will post, but I do not see any advantage when testing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Strikerless OIs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
solounamigo Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 3 hours ago, knap said: If you upload tactic I will have a look. Of course. I'm at work actually, later I'll share it :). You'll get it via PM. I think you should be able to make it even better. Btw. for me all your tactics are working better without OI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 I try various OIs in testing and so far not found any benefit. However, it may depend upon team and level so I stay open minded if players find them helpfull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jusinho9 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 On 14.8.2017 at 13:03, knap said: 104 PTS so more than 3430 - not sure how this will work for underdog A ¬!FM17.3.1GOODBYE32530APAMSSP104_74849800-11DE-4390-A642-D7AA30EC9348.fmf Do you think that 2 CBs and an additional DLP could work in your "standard" GOODBYE 3430 and WOF 3430, too? At least for dop dogs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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