DazRTaylor Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Without editing, how do you turn it off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoudini24 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Started with Kings Langley and the board already funded my first coaching budge. I signed some staff to help me with training and scouting. Now I'll try to sign players good enough to keep us in the Vanarama South. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I hate it when there's a newgen with a brilliant name that I can't justify signing because he's just not good enough. Alas, there shall be no Chuks Salami on my squad this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Mr_Demus said: Perhaps the challenge needs a Brexit rule? Or at least clarifications on how Brexit should be treated. Since there is the possibility to turn it off, I think it should be stated that this isn't allowed. I know it says no unedited DB, but for some people this may not count in their minds. I assume that the all players of this challenge plays fair, but clarification has never done any harm. Personally, I love the randomness, and the fact that you may have to focus much more on youth than spending. But I can read on these forums, that a lot of people hate it as it makes the PL "literally unplaybles OMGZ" Perhaps my suggestion is unnecessary, but I just thought that I would bring it up. I wasn't aware of a way of disabling it without using the editor, so that rule should cover it. Is it possible to disable it without the editor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 6 hours ago, wicksyFM said: Another thing I think people attempting this challenge need to show is proof that they are playing with attribute masking enabled. I think a lot of people who attempt this don’t follow that rule as they are not asked to prove it In the early days there was a fair number of accusations of cheating, which led to more 'proof' being needed. Since then, people have been a lot more trusting which has improved the mood of the thread. If you suspect someone of cheating, just put them on ignore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I really don't understand why anyone would cheat - after all you'd only be cheating yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicksyFM Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, dafuge said: In the early days there was a fair number of accusations of cheating, which led to more 'proof' being needed. Since then, people have been a lot more trusting which has improved the mood of the thread. If you suspect someone of cheating, just put them on ignore. I’m not calling out anybody for cheating. I just feel that we should be proving that we have masking enabled. We are asked to play that way. It’s in the rules for the challenge. You can guarantee that some who participate don’t. The challenge is far easier with masking disabled. This is a legendary challenge for me and one of the most popular on FM. I just think we should be proving that we are 100% following the rules Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, wicksyFM said: I’m not calling out anybody for cheating. I just feel that we should be proving that we have masking enabled. We are asked to play that way. It’s in the rules for the challenge. You can guarantee that some who participate don’t. The challenge is far easier with masking disabled. This is a legendary challenge for me and one of the most popular on FM. I just think we should be proving that we are 100% following the rules I get what you are saying, but we could also ask for proof of scout reports before every signing. We did consider this sort of thing years ago, but made the decision to be more trusting of each other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faramir Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 *laughs* because of no scouting budget- my summer signings were made on a wing and a prayer (actually I based most of them on pace, with a couple on recognizing a couple key skills suited my style of play). Seriously, I understand the point of the discussion, but is it worth the hassle? I would be willing to post mine (well future ones...) but it does come back to the point you are cheating yourself if you are doing so. I won't be the first one to the summit in the challenge- I play way too slow these days- so it is more a matter of enjoying and celebrating the steps on the way for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Hereford FC Season 2022/23 Sky Bet League 2 - Pos 1st Well what can I say, I was worried that we might not be good enough, apart from a little wobble in November when we dropped to second we pretty much stayed top the whole season. I utilised pretty much the same formation as last year but tweaked a couple of roles and part-way through the season set my two wider strikers to either mark the wide midfielders if opponents lined up in a 4-4-2 or the wing-backs if they played a 5-3-2. What I did find was that players who'd rejected trials that I added to my shortlist notified me if they were available hence I was able to sign my top scorer Harvey Bradbury. It was a bit of a break through season for a young central defender I'd signed on a free in 2020/21 season - take a bow Lewis Vose. My top performer by ratings was a youngster released by Arsenal who carried on his good form from the previous season - ladies and gentlemen I give you D J Buffonge. And finally a young centre half who now has been capped by Iceland on three occasions - Axel Andresson. FA Cup - 3rd Round After huffing and puffing my way through to the 3rd round I got drawn at home to Liverpool I fairly swiftly went 3-1 down and then missed two penalties before Higuain got his 4th. Carabao Cup - 1st round Got thumped at home by Brentford 1-3 Checkatrade Trophy - 3rd round Easily won my group before falling to Crystal Palace u23's on penalties End of season awards were as follows Fans Player of the Season D J Buffonge Goal of the Season D J Buffonge Signing of the Season Ibrahim Ekuban Young Player of the Season D J Buffonge Aims for next season 1 - Not get relagated 2 - Reduce my deficit from -£600k 3 - Keep hold of my better players or at least get some decent cash for them. League Table Harvey Bradbury Tactics Lewis Vose D J Buffonge Axel Andresson Ibrahim Ekuban Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 24 minutes ago, Faramir said: *laughs* because of no scouting budget- my summer signings were made on a wing and a prayer (actually I based most of them on pace, with a couple on recognizing a couple key skills suited my style of play). Seriously, I understand the point of the discussion, but is it worth the hassle? I would be willing to post mine (well future ones...) but it does come back to the point you are cheating yourself if you are doing so. I won't be the first one to the summit in the challenge- I play way too slow these days- so it is more a matter of enjoying and celebrating the steps on the way for me. I'm not going to screen print the 175 players I took on trial last summer - pre-season takes me around 4 hours roughly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Thread is 26 pages long as it is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Well this has come as a surprise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicksyFM Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 19 minutes ago, dafuge said: I get what you are saying, but we could also ask for proof of scout reports before every signing. We did consider this sort of thing years ago, but made the decision to be more trusting of each other. I hope i dont come across as someone moaning about this. Never was my intention. Maybe just a post with your season update showing your player search with the knowledge level of some players. Something like this: One extra screenshot a season. nobody wants to see screenshots of every signing. i just think the masking being enabled is a big rule that should be monitored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I generally don't trust my scout reports - a lot of my signings are trialists who've been released by bigger clubs in England. However the following screenshot of a random player that's been released by some club sows that attribute masking is on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, wicksyFM said: One extra screenshot a season. nobody wants to see screenshots of every signing. i just think the masking being enabled is a big rule that should be monitored. By all means, if you'd like to add those screenshots please do, but I don't really have the time to monitor people's games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebaker Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I have got frustrated by managing Staines so i retired my Manager at the end of the 24/25 season. Cirencester were promoted in 25 so i have created a new manger and taken them over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I tried to go back to the well and made an offer for another young Glenavon striker after having so much success with Gillespie, but Leicester swooped in and I missed out. Jerks. At first I thought I'd gotten him, what with the similar names and all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antwebb Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Mid season in the VNLN, and things are going pretty well. We started pretty poorly, but once my new defensive signings settled in we've been on a really good run of form. The playoffs are definitely in reach, and the top of the table is so tight, if this run goes on long enough we may even have an outside chance at challenging for top spot, especially as our better results are all coming against the top teams. Who knows? I can but dream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tremor Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 So... Tooting and Mitcham are a real challenge... I'm not normally one to admit an early defeat but it fell apart very quickly and didn't get any better, rock bottom and no wins... Loads of players left in the October period and I canned it before I was pushed. Totally underestimated the challenge after breezing the early seasons with my margate save. However, I'm determined to get there with them and have restarted the challenge, will post up my new manager and the screen shots when I get home later. I may have lost the battle but I'll win the war... Hopefully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Drundrige Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 I've tried this challenge before but a few versions ago so have started again, went with Slough Town (purely coincidence that they were on TV the other day!) I appear to be trying to make it as hard as I can for myself, not only did I not schedule enough pre-season friendlies so most of my players aren't match fit at the start of the season but I told the groundsman to make the pitch long so I could play long-ball football...and promptly forgot about it and got spanked 1-5 in my first home game thanks to at least three balls over the top of my slow defence. Despite being on the Defensive Mentality I'd asked them to push up a bit to make my team a bit more compact... Anyway, now I've remembered that crucial fact I can properly put a long-ball practice into place and hopefully pick up enough home wins to stay up. 3 defeats in my first 3 games and 1 goal scored isn't the best of starts however... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Demus Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Margate preseason is going slow. Many, many players coming in on trial...I have roughly 15 players in my squad. Some of who, do not have the quality to play at this level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faramir Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Needham Market reached midseason plugging along in the mid-table. At this point, I am pretty happy with how things have gone in our first season in VNL as we have stoutly defended our way to our current standing. The scoring has been lacking, partly because Decarrey Sherriff- one of our top 4 forwards- broke his ankle in his first match and hasn't made his way back into training yet. Deren Ibrahim has been a very steady keeper for us, something we badly needed, but he is also gone a bit with Gibraltar National duties and Idem has been Ok filling in. Our backline play has improved since last season, but our midfield play has been a bit uninspired - certainly contributing to the lack of scoring from our forwards. I am hopeful we can start scoring a bit more to help us maintain our placement, as I have no illusions about challenging for a Playoff spot at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tremor Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 So, final restart, let me introduce: Richie Hawtin (aka Plastikman, some of you might have noticed I have been naming my managers after famous (old school) DJ's) Starting with a clean slate staff-wise Board shot, tight for wages, but should be enough I hope, they are certainly fine with me having a healthy coaching team and setup and as you can see from the profile shot, they immediately agreed to send me on a coaching course myself which was a bonus. Proof that editor is disabled. Proof that attribute masking is enabled. Lets pray for a soft Brexit eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-2000 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Hereford FC Season 2018-19 Starting Profile -- Table -- Competitions -- Squad -- Transfers -- Finances So I started my save with Hereford FC, having seen the original club play a number of times. The board wanted us to avoid relegation. The squad was in okay nick to be fair, but naturally a few players that were surplus to requirements. I released a few and sold a couple others, but attempts to bin all of them were unsuccessful. Furthermore, my attempts in the transfer window were of a mixed quality. The loan signings of Andrea Borg, Jordan Zemura, George Brown and particularly Michenaidgelo Hansen were inspired signings - Borg scoring 23 goals, Brown making 12 assists and Hansen with 19 assists. However, the signing of Richie Burdett and Charlie Cole were of players who were instantly not good enough quality to play a part so I'll have to bear that in mind when making signings for next season. The season itself was fantastic. We were unfortunate not to find ourselves in the Vanarama National next season, leading the VNN all throughout the season before a couple bad results in March meant we were chasing Chester who wrapped the title with a last gasp win on the final day. We managed a 4-3 win over FC United in the play-off semi-final, but fell to a big defeat in the final which made it a disappointing end to a superb campaign. The cup competitions were a mixed bag for us, doing well to earn a spot in the FA Cup First Round where we narrowly lost to a decent League Two outfit but I was frustrated with the defeat to Chorley in the FA Trophy First Round as that was a competition where we could have competed further in. Nonetheless, we met all the targets so I have few complaints. One major positive was the healthy financial position we found ourselves in during the season. A average attendance of 4,239, the highest in the division, matched with the finances of a low end VNN side meant we made a profit for the season. We could have made more if I had been successful in shipping some of the deadwood out but its nice to give us a little room in that department. Next season, we'll aim for a similar season where we are in the top half of the table and pushing for a promotion place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13-gigi Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 "Gigi brings glory to Hereford". The best headline that looked impossible back on july when nobody there was giving anything for me. Won the VNS with two spare game and we're also buying Edgar Street. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Congrats - nice one on the ground - my board are looking to build a new stadium at some unspecified point in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Crikey there are some fairly big sides in L1 - Blackburn are spending £9.3 million per year on salaries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 FYI folks, if any of you go into your Game Status screen and see that it's marked you as having used the in-game editor, despite the editor being disabled, here's the issue which I just found after some testing. If you are playing a game where you are using the editor, and quit to the start screen (quitting out of the game entirely avoids this bug), and then start a new career from the start screen, the game will immediately flag you as having used the editor even when the editor is disabled. So, don't worry about it, just a bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Well, not a bad start in the Championship. Lost 1-0 at Aston Villa in the first match, but then in the first round of the Carabao I beat Mansfield 6-0 away, then in the league I squeaked one out against Sheffield United 2-1 then beat QPR 4-0. Totally overhauled the defense in the offseason, 3 new starters. EDIT: Just beat preseason favorites West Ham 3-1, after going up 3-0. Was really not expecting this. The media noticed my my old assistant manager, Adam Tann, was in the crowd against QPR scouting out Neil Duffy for loan. Sorry mate, I need him. He was hired at Shrewsbury last season, before he was hired the team was 5-5-7, and went 0-0-3 in the Checkatrade, he went 7-2-0 in his first 9 league games plus two FA Cup wins, ended up finishing 4th in League 2. Proud of him. One of my new strikers had a hat trick too. Might have myself a pretty good Northern Irish tandem up front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKobalt Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Taking a crack at this with Farsley Celtic Wanted Brightlingsea but I had enough with restarting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tremor Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 4 hours ago, ZKobalt said: Taking a crack at this with Farsley Celtic Wanted Brightlingsea but I had enough with restarting There is a Brightlingsea save a few posts back on the previous page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 10 hours ago, 13-gigi said: "Gigi brings glory to Hereford". The best headline that looked impossible back on july when nobody there was giving anything for me. Won the VNS with two spare game and we're also buying Edgar Street. I wonder why your board is buying Edgar Street - when mine decided to do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 A quick start of the season update with Billericay. After 4 consecutive promotions we are still going strong, far better than I expteced. After 13 games in our first year in the Championship we are top of the league, with 10 victories, 2 draws and 1 loss. We started the season with an away game at Sunderland and then hosting Fulham. A scrappy 1-0 win at The Stadium of Light was followed by a cracking 6-1 victory against a really poor Fulham. The team has showed great determination, being able to come back from being behind in several games. Against Aston Villa at Villa Park we were 2-0 down at half time, but still managing a 2-4 win. In the 12th round we played second place Brighton at home, a thriller of a game. We went 0-2 down early, before coming back and making it 3-3. In stoppage time we got a penalty and I was cheering like a madman. Only to see my striker miss the penalty with the last kick of the game. Gutted!!! Really happy with the start of the season, but I really dont see it lasting. I have 4 good central defenders and central midfielders in total and any injuries to them would be devastating! The chairman has been generous with my wage budget and transfer budget after the transfer window closed, and has given me some more funds to work with. 23 year old ex-Everton midfielder Tom Davies still hasen't found a club, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way and I might be able to pick him up! With every player now needing a work application, UK born players really is the only way for me to strengthen the squad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Drundrige Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I don't think I've enjoyed losing 8 out of 9 games so much before... That being said, in my first 8 games i conceded 6 penalties. That's a lot isn't it? I mean my defence is bad but I think I'll let the Bugs Forum know about it just in case... To be fair though, the only game I haven't lost I won (and scored) 3 penalties so that's 9 penalties awarded across 9 games! Also - so many goals conceded from balls over the top. So. Many. Long. Balls. Over. The. Top! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Demus Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 49 minutes ago, Edinton said: I don't think I've enjoyed losing 8 out of 9 games so much before... That being said, in my first 8 games i conceded 6 penalties. That's a lot isn't it? I mean my defence is bad but I think I'll let the Bugs Forum know about it just in case... To be fair though, the only game I haven't lost I won (and scored) 3 penalties so that's 9 penalties awarded across 9 games! Also - so many goals conceded from balls over the top. So. Many. Long. Balls. Over. The. Top! I had a huge amount of penalties as well. Most of them coming from very fast strikers, ball played over my defence, slow defender being clumsy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Drundrige Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 32 minutes ago, Mr_Demus said: I had a huge amount of penalties as well. Most of them coming from very fast strikers, ball played over my defence, slow defender being clumsy Yeah my defenders are poor but there is a thread in the Bugs Forum relating to too many penalties given overall, relating specifically to 18.1.1 so I've added my tuppence to see what comes back. The advice from SI is to monitor it over the season as it should even out/be a realistic total overall so we shall see... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13-gigi Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 hace 14 horas, Swindon69 dijo: Congrats - nice one on the ground - my board are looking to build a new stadium at some unspecified point in the future. Thanks! I hope they'll stick to that on the next few years and don't get rid of Edgar Street if we get a couple of straight promotions. That would be devastating for my finances.I hope they just make an upgrade once we get L2 and don't build a new stadium until CHAMIONSHIP! Good luck on your first L1 season!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13-gigi Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 hace 4 horas, Swindon69 dijo: I wonder why your board is buying Edgar Street - when mine decided to do this. They were reluctant to do so but I conviced them as I was in a good run on VNLS and told them it would be beneficial for us not to pay a rent. I asked to do so because I was affraid they would move away from there too early, as we were gathering a good crowd on the third stage of season, and I wanted to keep a transfer Budget to get L2 straight! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 46 minutes ago, 13-gigi said: They were reluctant to do so but I conviced them as I was in a good run on VNLS and told them it would be beneficial for us not to pay a rent. I asked to do so because I was affraid they would move away from there too early, as we were gathering a good crowd on the third stage of season, and I wanted to keep a transfer Budget to get L2 straight! Good move Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 56 minutes ago, 13-gigi said: Thanks! I hope they'll stick to that on the next few years and don't get rid of Edgar Street if we get a couple of straight promotions. That would be devastating for my finances.I hope they just make an upgrade once we get L2 and don't build a new stadium until CHAMIONSHIP! Good luck on your first L1 season!! Ty - I have a horrible feeling that a 9k stadium will kill me financially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13-gigi Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 hace 1 hora, Swindon69 dijo: Ty - I have a horrible feeling that a 9k stadium will kill me financially. 9k stadium? looks like a shortviewing move from your board Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebaker Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Swindon69 said: Ty - I have a horrible feeling that a 9k stadium will kill me financially. I assume it could be expanded, 9k seems small though since your crowds must be reasonable by now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I'm filling my home ground pretty much every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebaker Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Swindon69 said: I'm filling my home ground pretty much every game. You would think 15k would be ideal, perhaps it takes into account the population of Hereford in the database. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 9k? Lucky you. I'm sitting here in Championship with a stadium with 5k capacity (we sell out just about all the time now), which we're expanding to just under 7k this season. The next lowest average attendance in Championship is 15k. Of course, we're also spending less than $4M per year on salary, less than half the 23rd lowest in the league, and less than 6% of what the highest in the league is paying. EDIT: I was wrong, it'll take two years to expand the stadium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 The best part of this was that I hadn't realised he's scored all five. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shader98 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Hello all. I've done the Dafuge challenge before, but I just did it on my own and didn't sign up. This year I'm hoping to share the fruits of my labor! And to make things interesting, I'm going to use the Dorking Wanderers! Not only are they the most difficult team, but the name...Incredible! Here goes nothing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicksyFM Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 12 hours ago, shader98 said: Hello all. I've done the Dafuge challenge before, but I just did it on my own and didn't sign up. This year I'm hoping to share the fruits of my labor! And to make things interesting, I'm going to use the Dorking Wanderers! Not only are they the most difficult team, but the name...Incredible! Here goes nothing! Good luck. Im torn between Dorking Wanderers and Leatherhead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Well, through 15 matches in my first season in the Championship I'm 11-2-2 and in the top spot. Against the other teams currently in the top 5 (Sheff Wed, West Ham, QPR, and Brighton) I'm 4-0-0, scoring 12 goals and conceding 1, though all 4 matches were at home. I have the top goalscorer and 3 players in the top 20, and 4 of the top 5 and 5 of the top 10 players in average rating. Couldn't tell you what I'm doing that's working so well, team report comparison screen suggests that while we're pretty solid in terms of our physical attributes we should be pretty badly overmatched with respect to technical and mental attributes. In terms of statistics all I can really glean is that we foul a lot, we're good at crossing, and our goalkeeper is pretty fantastic. It's not like we've just been lucky though, we're +19 in goal differential and won by multiple goals in 6 of our 11 wins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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