Will the DRM on FM 09 stop you from buying the game?

[Muzchap]

After i buy a CD it is my CD and you have not a saying on what i am going to do with it , when developers want to have a saying on things you legally own punish them with your wallet .

Who the hell are you to tell me on how many computers i am going to install MY game? i own 35 , now what?

Who the hell are you to gather information about my rig ?

Who the hell are you to dictate me what programs my firewall allows to pass ?

Who the hell are you to post "we allow" crap ? do i need your permission to use my property?

It isn't the design it is the ethics behind it , you are not going to have any control over the products i own , if you think you can do whatever you want you are dead wrong and your sales will be hammered even if you bring the pope to post in the forums.

What's next , DRM beds when you can only get on with your wife?

Wishful thinking haha , wait for the stars to start shining over the Amazon .

Hi,

I think you need to understand how this DRM works

1) You can install the game on ALL 35 of your computers You can only play 5 at a time though.

2) We are collecting hardware stats, if you don't like this - send your key in and I'll personally remove. This information is vital to us in ensuring that future game development caters for the FM09 audience. It also improves our QA / Compat testing as we can purchase machines with the same specs as our players - this means less issues for you when purchasing.

3)Everything is sent across port 80 - so no firewall modifications are needed

4)'We allow' - fair point, it probably wasn't intended like that, anything can be taken out of context - I'm pretty sure quotes from the Bible can be made to look offensive, if taken out of context.

5) How are we controlling your game? It's a 1-time activation?

DRM Wife's just wouldn't work - WifeSwap would be canned straight away!

Amazon comment - well, what can I say - we have been totally transparent with what we are doing, people will either believe the truth or buy into some consipiracy theory - my job is to report FACTS, please make your own mind up.

[LFCfan]

After i buy a CD it is my CD and you have not a saying on what i am going to do with it , when developers want to have a saying on things you legally own punish them with your wallet .

You own the media but not the right to make any changes to the software

Who the hell are you to tell me on how many computers i am going to install MY game? i own 35 , now what?

Owning a legitimate copy of software normally gives you one licence. 5 licences is a lot more than normal.

Who the hell are you to dictate me what programs my firewall allows to pass ?

They don't dictate. If you want online authentication, then you need to open up your firewall to the authentication program, otherwise, you can phone up and keep those ports closed

SI had to abandon a good product due to piracy. It was no longer viable and thus they have a vested interest in keeping their main product going.

[vaz1111]

I don't get how people say this authentication will put people off lending the game to their mates. you have 5 installs, thats enough for 5 friends to play off 1 copy of the game!

[Kriss]

Kris, I had a problem with FM2008 and had to uninstall it completely from my system. Hit the uninstall button, restarted PC re installed, the problem was still there. I posted on here and was told to do a complete and utter uninstall, I had to go into the registry and manually delete H_KEY registry files. Now will this be the case with 2009 or will it be sufficient to just hit the uninstall button and not loose a licence. I know some people on here have difficulty installing updates and are not all knowing PC experts so how will it work.

Important thing here, don't use the windows install/uninstall to uninstall FM, use the one on your Programmes menu which FM installs.

Following the uninstall procedure should mean not losing the key even if the uninstall fails in certain removal processes and you have to manually delete files/registry keys afterwards.

The expert on here will tell you if I'm missing anything.

I think it's clear that if uninstall fails through no fault of your own the website he mentions will probably resolve the issue.

[VexingVixen]

I very much doubt that many of the people who claimed in the pole that this will stop them buying the game actually won't buy it.

Actually I'd just like to point out that the majority who voted Yes are not just going to skip FM for a year, they're most likely to acquire the game illegally which is so easy to do, and they'll probably be playing it before any of us paying customers.

[Kriss]

I don't get how people say this authentication will put people off lending the game to their mates. you have 5 installs, thats enough for 5 friends to play off 1 copy of the game!

I haven't seen anybody say that, SI have obviously decided that's an acceptable "risk"

[Muzchap]

Important thing here, don't use the windows install/uninstall to uninstall FM, use the one on your Programmes menu which FM installs.

Following the uninstall procedure should mean not losing the key even if the uninstall fails in certain removal processes and you have to manually delete files/registry keys afterwards.

The expert on here will tell you if I'm missing anything.

I think it's clear that if uninstall fails through no fault of your own the website he mentions will probably resolve the issue.

Hi Tony / Kriss,

Ok - if you break the game - you 'do not' break the activation. If you need to reinstall the game, you can do so without losing a licence seat.

We have been through all of these permutations in 'QA' and can 100% guarantee that it works.

If people think it will help - I'll be more than happy to write a 'sticky' thread on some of the issues being raised here?

[Muzchap]

Actually I'd just like to point out that the majority who voted Yes are not just going to skip FM for a year, they're most likely to acquire the game illegally which is so easy to do, and they'll probably be playing it before any of us paying customers.

Privet,

Hopefully this year will be different - please do let me know if you find a copy in the bazar (Russian Markets for people who have not visited Russia) before release.

Pocha

[VexingVixen]

Privet,

Hopefully this year will be different - please do let me know if you find a copy in the bazar (Russian Markets for people who have not visited Russia) before release.

Pocha

Different in what way?

[Iggy]

Would anyone buy a dvd where you had to call a dvd distributor every fifth time you where gonna watch the movie? Or need to have a dvd player hooked up to the internet who also told companies how much porn your watch

The biggest problem with this solution is that people are scared of the next step. What if this will be pirates as every other FM game back to floppy copying and writing off the codes for CM1. How restricted will FM10 be. I think that's why alot of people will choose to not support this decision by sigames.

For me it walks on a fine line this year since it seems to be a "light" version so far.

I'm also interested in seeing how this forum will be on release/activation day, if people ain't getting their game activated as soon as it's installed due to server downtime, then it will upset alot of people and possibly creating more potential pirates. So i hope the tech gear is fully ready.

[HonkyDick]

Excellent idea:D as long as it doesn't send back performance stats:o

Or recommend other players.

[mertle]

To be fair, i don't think i have made a knee jerk reaction. I said i had a open mind, i read all the comments, good and bad, did some research and formed my own opinion from that. If i buy the game, its MY game to play on MY pc the way I want too, and if the only information that is being sent back is processing speeds ect, then all you's need to know is my PC is a brand spanker, top of the range. Us as comsumers should have a choice what information we share, not it being forced upon us.

To be honest feel the same way the whole process makes you feel dirty and sort of Oliver -esque when he wanted more porridge. Please sir can I have some more.

I know SI trying the hardest on damage limitation of DRM and they have to do something to stop issues like piracy but I not buying it I have lost faith I should not be the one going back grovelling that I need activations back if something goes wrong.

It just makes you feel dirty we dont know how sympatric si will be it sounds like they will be but its the whole intrusive way the thing is going about it what upset me.

If this is the way pc industry wants to go then for me its bye bye.

I feel activision is like retro gaming back what happens if that manual gets lost I said in the past if you lose the game disk then stupid them manuals are far easier to missplace after time heck I cant find Fm2008 manual but my disk is very treasured and SAFE.

[vaz1111]

I haven't seen anybody say that, SI have obviously decided that's an acceptable "risk"

mentioned in previous page

[LFCfan]

A lot of corporate software uses this kind of DRM. It has been used for many years and is now standard practice for software like AutoCAD.

[Muzchap]

Would anyone buy a dvd where you had to call a dvd distributor every fifth time you where gonna watch the movie? Or need to have a dvd player hooked up to the internet who also told companies how much porn your watch

The biggest problem with this solution is that people are scared of the next step. What if this will be pirates as every other FM game back to floppy copying and writing off the codes for CM1. How restricted will FM10 be. I think that's why alot of people will choose to not support this decision by sigames.

For me it walks on a fine line this year since it seems to be a "light" version so far.

I'm also interested in seeing how this forum will be on release/activation day, if people ain't getting their game activated as soon as it's installed due to server downtime, then it will upset alot of people and possibly creating more potential pirates. So i hope the tech gear is fully ready.

Hi - if you take a look at post 560 - it should answer the majority of your questions and concerns.

We will conduct a thorough review of all the comments about DRM and check how effective it was in preventing day 1 piracy - this will shape the requirements for the protection system on FM10.

We are committed to putting 'you' the consumer first.

[Pele_10]

I was just wondering i don't think i read it anywhere, but will the box Cover for FM09 state that DRM will be used?

[Muzchap]

To be honest feel the same way the whole process makes you feel dirty and sort of Oliver -esque when he wanted more porridge. Please sir can I have some more.

I know SI trying the hardest on damage limitation of DRM and they have to do something to stop issues like piracy but I not buying it I have lost faith I should not be the one going back grovelling that I need activations back if something goes wrong.

It just makes you feel dirty we dont know how sympatric si will be it sounds like they will be but its the whole intrusive way the thing is going about it what upset me.

If this is the way pc industry wants to go then for me its bye bye.

I feel activision is like retro gaming back what happens if that manual gets lost I said in the past if you lose the game disk then stupid them manuals are far easier to missplace after time heck I cant find Fm2008 manual but my disk is very treasured and SAFE.

Hi - we moved away from Disc Authentication as there were numerous complaints of drivers being installed, rootkits etc.

I have already stated that the protection will be removed after 18 months - so I would urge you to reconsider.

[Pele_10]

MUZ what about if you don't want it on at all, can you get it removed instantly?

[Muzchap]

Different in what way?

In that hopefully there shouldn't be a day 1 crack

[mertle]

Actually I'd just like to point out that the majority who voted Yes are not just going to skip FM for a year, they're most likely to acquire the game illegally which is so easy to do, and they'll probably be playing it before any of us paying customers.

I take little offence I voted yes I wont touch this game via bought or illegal once bored of FM2008 pc gaming is dead for me no more.

Maybe in time I will be able explore leagues I never touched before in my FM2008.

3d was nice and some features like the loan more active transfer system was good but not selling myself to DRM devel any shape or form for anyone. I dont like piracy its just as evil as it denys hard work.

Its my choice and yes I will live with it but not all lost I have FM2008 and if they can prove to me after 18 months a shop bought version will be DRM free I will get FM2009 then. SI deserve supporting for the sheer enjoyment they given me over many years but the DRM will not be supported by me. SO peovided the Non DRM is available clearly labelled as such will get bought in 18 months time.

[Dirky Diggler]

Hi,

I think you need to understand how this DRM works

1) You can install the game on ALL 35 of your computers You can only play 5 at a time though.

2) We are collecting hardware stats, if you don't like this - send your key in and I'll personally remove. This information is vital to us in ensuring that future game development caters for the FM09 audience. It also improves our QA / Compat testing as we can purchase machines with the same specs as our players - this means less issues for you when purchasing.

3)Everything is sent across port 80 - so no firewall modifications are needed

4)'We allow' - fair point, it probably wasn't intended like that, anything can be taken out of context - I'm pretty sure quotes from the Bible can be made to look offensive, if taken out of context.

5) How are we controlling your game? It's a 1-time activation?

DRM Wife's just wouldn't work - WifeSwap would be canned straight away!

Amazon comment - well, what can I say - we have been totally transparent with what we are doing, people will either believe the truth or buy into some consipiracy theory - my job is to report FACTS, please make your own mind up.

1) How can you install it on 35 machines if you only have 5 authentications?

2) So you are gathering information to be sent back home then, if it can do it once, it can do it whenever it wants. Send your key in?? and you will personally remove? Surley you will have the key when its asked at authentication stage

3) From what I understood, you could authenticate online (non steam) via a direct link. So what your now saying is that the program itself has software imbedded in it that sends information over port 80 to a server side system?

5) How can it be one time activation if you only have 5 installs and 35 computers? you would have to uninstall and reinstall/reauthenticate every 5 computers (OK thats a ridiculous point as its a scenario that will never happen, I mean who owns 35 computers!!)

Who is Muzchap anyway, he doesnt seem to know his own protection if he is anyone official, Certainly I dont mind being corrected, as I may be wrong. But he is contradicting what we have been led to believe about the DRM

I do however like the fact the fact he is posting here and being quite frank with people.

I have one question for Muz tho, What is to stop someone just sharing it with 4 of his friends?

[Muzchap]

MUZ what about if you don't want it on at all, can you get it removed instantly?

Hi Pele,

Unfortunately, no - the DRM is currently planned to be removed after 18 months - this is floating at present and no hard dates have been defined - we're trying to remain as flexible as possible.

The removal will be in the form of a Patch - it's unlikely that there will be a new version mastered.

[Themistofelis]

Hi,

I think you need to understand how this DRM works

1) You can install the game on ALL 35 of your computers You can only play 5 at a time though.

2) We are collecting hardware stats, if you don't like this - send your key in and I'll personally remove. This information is vital to us in ensuring that future game development caters for the FM09 audience. It also improves our QA / Compat testing as we can purchase machines with the same specs as our players - this means less issues for you when purchasing.

3)Everything is sent across port 80 - so no firewall modifications are needed

4)'We allow' - fair point, it probably wasn't intended like that, anything can be taken out of context - I'm pretty sure quotes from the Bible can be made to look offensive, if taken out of context.

5) How are we controlling your game? It's a 1-time activation?

DRM Wife's just wouldn't work - WifeSwap would be canned straight away!

Amazon comment - well, what can I say - we have been totally transparent with what we are doing, people will either believe the truth or buy into some consipiracy theory - my job is to report FACTS, please make your own mind up.

1. Well , 5 are fair enough but still not your business to put limits on MY CD

2. I only trust games incapable of transmitting anything into the internet in the first place , why do i need you to stop my info accessing your servers? you mean i can not stop it by myself? or that this will not be written with bold red letters on the box so people in ignorance will never know?

3.So i only need to add a new rule blocking port 80 , thank you.

4.I am an Atheist, quotes from the Bible played their role .

5.I only activate in the store paying and getting the CD and the receipt , then i only want to play .

This is not personal and of course i have no intention to mock your work , this is not about conspiracies either , as i posted earlier the entire issue is ethical ; i will never let anyone to treat me like a potential thief and i will never let anyone to have a word on my property.

I really hope you find another way of fighting piracy but till then all we game collectors who like to have boxes, manuals , maps , stickers etc are doomed .

[Muzchap]

1. Well , 5 are fair enough but still not your business to put limits on MY CD

2. I only trust games incapable of transmitting anything into the internet in the first place , why do i need you to stop my info accessing your servers? you mean i can not stop it by myself? or that this will not be written with bold red letters on the box so people in ignorance will never know?

3.So i only need to add a new rule blocking port 80 , thank you.

4.I am an Atheist, quotes from the Bible played their role .

5.I only activate in the store paying and getting the CD and the receipt , then i only want to play .

This is not personal and of course i have no intention to mock your work , this is not about conspiracies either , as i posted earlier the entire issue is ethical ; i will never let anyone to treat me like a potential thief and i will never let anyone to have a word on my property.

I really hope you find another way of fighting piracy but till then all we game collectors who like to have boxes, manuals , maps , stickers etc are doomed .

Hi,

Sorry you feel that way, FM09 is a boxed product? Please do not block Port 80 as you will need that for Internet Browsing

I think the problem comes down to reading the EULA - unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, you are only paying to licence the game, for your personal enjoyment. As traditionally, people have received this licence in the form of a disc, ownership becomes implied - it then makes it very hard to convince people otherwise.

If we could be piracy free, using another method - I'm all ears. We did consider USB dongles etc but again this seemed more intrusive.

Regarding the Bible comment - I was using this as a 'common denominator' - most people realise the Bible isn't offensive, but it can be conveyed to look that way with a little constuctive editing.

Thanks for the feedback - it's important that we understand our user base concerns.

[LFCfan]

1. Well , 5 are fair enough but still not your business to put limits on MY CD

It's only your CD. It isn't your software. You are purchasing the right to run the software. Most licences are 1 installation per CD. You are being given 5. You have no legal right to run the software on more than 5 PCs at a time.

5.I only activate in the store paying and getting the CD and the receipt , then i only want to play .

The business model is changing to the one used by corporations - albeit a less strict one. SI are perfectly within their rights to do so.

[tony1]

Hi,

Sorry you feel that way, FM09 is a boxed product? Please do not block Port 80 as you will need that for Internet Browsing

You don't block port 80, just go into your firewall setting and '' do not allow FM2009 to access internet'' does the trick.

[LFCfan]

If you block port 80, most of your internet activity will cease

[Muzchap]

You don't block port 80, just go into your firewall setting and '' do not allow FM2009 to access internet'' does the trick.

Hi Tony,

Sorry - I meant that 'generally' - it's hard to know which 'firewall' he was referring to, so 'general' advice is don't block port 80

Fair enough - if you use the windows firewall then that is an option.

[Dirky Diggler]

Hi,

Sorry you feel that way, FM09 is a boxed product? Please do not block Port 80 as you will need that for Internet Browsing

You shouldnt have to restrict FM to do anything, You should be able to trust the company in that it wont be sending ANY details over any port without your permission. If its in the EULA then thats just awful

[Themistofelis]

It's only your CD. It isn't your software. You are purchasing the right to run the software. Most licences are 1 installation per CD. You are being given 5. You have no legal right to run the software on more than 5 PCs at a time.

The business model is changing to the one used by corporations - albeit a less strict one. SI are perfectly within their rights to do so.

I remember installing "In Nomine" more than 20 times due to some crashes and false moding (on all 3 of my home PCs) i shall go to jail ?

The business model changes only if the customers allow it to change

tony1 thank you

[Yasko75]

"If you block port 80, most of your internet activity will cease"

Why not using your antivirus program to block FM09 from internet connection instead?

[GillsMan]

After i buy a CD it is my CD and you have not a saying on what i am going to do with it

You are correct that it is your CD. But that's pretty much all you own. As has been said here on numerous occasions, when you buy software, you buy the right to use the software, subject to the conditions set out in the EULA, and you own the physical CD itself. But, for what I trust are fairly obvious reasons, you do NOT own the software. This is true of pretty much all purchasable software.

[JumbledSausage]

Muzchap, I have a question.

In your original post you said that "the only thing we stop you doing is running debuggers whilst running the game" - or something like that.

Now, as a developer (and a Computer Science related PhD student) I spend a fair while (outside work hours obviously!!) playing FM whilst coding. Will this mean that I can't run debuggers on my own code whilst playing the game? Or are you just stopping "FM-related" debuggings?

I get the feeling it is the latter (which, obviously, I would never do), but I just thought that I'd ask - not that it will stop me buying the game anyway!!!

Cheers.

[Ranbir]

I have issues with EULA's in general. They're only available to look at after purchase and by disagreeing to it, and not installing it, it is difficult to actually get a refund. Especially with PC software.

[LFCfan]

I remember installing "In Nomine" more than 20 times due to some crashes and false moding (on all 3 of my home PCs) i shall go to jail ?

The business model changes only if the customers allow it to change

tony1 thank you

Ok. It's 1 active installation. If your machine crashed, of course you are entitled to reinstall it.

What I meant is the way licences are, you are normally only entitled to install and run the software on 1 PC at a time. It is usually expected, however, not enforced to any great degree, that you will uninstall the software from other machine.

[LFCfan]

Port 80 is the same port that internet browsers use.

[Muzchap]

Muzchap, I have a question.

In your original post you said that "the only thing we stop you doing is running debuggers whilst running the game" - or something like that.

Now, as a developer (and a Computer Science related PhD student) I spend a fair while (outside work hours obviously!!) playing FM whilst coding. Will this mean that I can't run debuggers on my own code whilst playing the game? Or are you just stopping "FM-related" debuggings?

I get the feeling it is the latter (which, obviously, I would never do), but I just thought that I'd ask - not that it will stop me buying the game anyway!!!

Cheers.

Hi - good luck with the PhD

Ok, this is specific to the 'debugging' environment used - if you try and attach to the FM09 process - we *might* have a problem

However, if you are running, compiling and debugging in an alternate thread then you should be fine - I've just fired up VS2008 and debugged a webapp whilst playing, so you should be fine - the only problem I had is when I tried to use the 'squishy...freezing' debuggers. (that's a canned reference to a well known debugger used for cracking games)

[Äktsjon Männ]

I have issues with EULA's in general. They're only available to look at after purchase and by disagreeing to it, and not installing it, it is difficult to actually get a refund. Especially with PC software.

Yes. There are arguments that EULA's can't even be enforceable in law as it shouldn't be allowed to put restrictions on a product on sale that can only be read after purchasing said product. But then it's not really possible to fit the EULA on the box either. There are general laws that deal with intellectual property though that one can't dispute because of ignorance. Then there's the nuances in specific EULA's. A bit of a grey area as far as I'm concerned.

[Dirky Diggler]

So Muzchap

What is stopping 5 different people installing one copy of the game on their own computers?

This is quite important really, as you say you are trying to stop piracy, but I can only see this leading to mates shairing the game between each other. The only way I can see you being able to do anything about this is by gathering personal information from the games while they are running

[Elohir]

The whole issue boils down pretty simply imo.

SI are well within their rights to use this DRM. The decision to use it has already been made, and presumably was discussed at length with stakeholders so ranting and/or appealing to SI now is largely a waste of time.

The DRM will p*** off large numbers of legitimate customers (e.g. people buying the game and not being able to use it, concerns about number of activations, etc.)

The DRM will not prevent cracked versions of the game.

The more legitimate customers are p***ed off, the more people will download cracked versions of the game. Those customers not only represent lost sales for this release, but likely lost sales of all successive versions. (I.e. Why pay for v10 when you were burned by v9 and got it for free?)

The game will still sell, SI will make plenty of money on it and the sales they lose due to DRM almost certainly won't be enough to convince them not to do the same or worse next time.

Personally, I've just had 2 machine failures in a week and so even after owning the game for a few days, I'd be basically nearly halfway through the usable lifespan of the product.

I won't be getting a cracked version, but I won't be buying it either. Someone's really dropped the ball with this release.

Just my $0.02

[Themistofelis]

You are correct that it is your CD. But that's pretty much all you own. As has been said here on numerous occasions, when you buy software, you buy the right to use the software, subject to the conditions set out in the EULA, and you own the physical CD itself. But, for what I trust are fairly obvious reasons, you do NOT own the software. This is true of pretty much all purchasable software.

Sure, i buy the right to use the software as i want .

Ok. It's 1 active installation. If your machine crashed, of course you are entitled to reinstall it.

What I meant is the way licences are, you are normally only entitled to install and run the software on 1 PC at a time. It is usually expected, however, not enforced to any great degree, that you will uninstall the software from other machine.

"In Nomine" is only available on line at gamersgate , it's protection is that you do have to use gamersgate installer or it won't install , i don't remember reading restrictions and apart from 3 home PCs my brother has it at office as well .Of course it is a form of DRM but i never had a problem with keys and/or data mining , limited installations (the client auto-connects / logs on and remembers the keys of the games i have bought) . Fun part is that this expansion wasn't pirated for months , of course files were available on line but pirates had to manually add/change the files one by one , this is what i call "hammering piracy" .

[Dirky Diggler]

The whole issue boils down pretty simply imo.

SI are well within their rights to use this DRM. The decision to use it has already been made, and presumably was discussed at length with stakeholders so ranting and/or appealing to SI now is largely a waste of time.

The DRM will p*** off large numbers of legitimate customers (e.g. people buying the game and not being able to use it, concerns about number of activations, etc.)

The DRM will not prevent cracked versions of the game.

The more legitimate customers are p***ed off, the more people will download cracked versions of the game. Those customers not only represent lost sales for this release, but likely lost sales of all successive versions. (I.e. Why pay for v10 when you were burned by v9 and got it for free?)

The game will still sell, SI will make plenty of money on it and the sales they lose due to DRM almost certainly won't be enough to convince them not to do the same or worse next time.

Personally, I've just had 2 machine failures in a week and so even after owning the game for a few days, I'd be basically nearly halfway through the usable lifespan of the product.

I won't be getting a cracked version, but I won't be buying it either. Someone's really dropped the ball with this release.

Just my $0.02

I believe in his first post Muzchap said that you culd get back authentications online, so if you did have a machine failiure it wouldnt matter bacause you could just this option, which IMO should really put the so many installs restrictions to bed

[LFCfan]

What part of "normally" didn't you understand? It isn't a specific, I was talking about the usual practice when buying the CD from the shop.

When purchasing software online, you are adhering to their EULA, which is different.

[Muzchap]

Muzchap, I have a question.

In your original post you said that "the only thing we stop you doing is running debuggers whilst running the game" - or something like that.

Now, as a developer (and a Computer Science related PhD student) I spend a fair while (outside work hours obviously!!) playing FM whilst coding. Will this mean that I can't run debuggers on my own code whilst playing the game? Or are you just stopping "FM-related" debuggings?

I get the feeling it is the latter (which, obviously, I would never do), but I just thought that I'd ask - not that it will stop me buying the game anyway!!!

Cheers.

I believe in his first post Muzchap said that you culd get back authentications online, so if you did have a machine failiure it wouldnt matter bacause you could just this option, which IMO should really put the so many installs restrictions to bed

Thanks Dirky Diggler - that is indeed correct - I'm glad someone is reading my posts

We have taken into account system failures and will not penalise you - you're obviously having a bad enough time with a system failure, let alone our licensing giving you further headaches.

[GillsMan]

Sure, i buy the right to use the software as i want .

Unfortunately not.

"In Nomine" is only available on line at gamersgate , it's protection is that you do have to use gamersgate installer or it won't install , i don't remember reading restrictions and apart from 3 home PCs my brother has it at office as well .Of course it is a form of DRM but i never had a problem with keys and/or data mining , limited installations (the client auto-connects / logs on and remembers the keys of the games i have bought) . Fun part is that this expansion wasn't pirated for months , of course files were available on line but pirates had to manually add/change the files one by one , this is what i call "hammering piracy" .

I didn't post the post that you were replying to in this bit. :confused:

[Muzchap]

So Muzchap

What is stopping 5 different people installing one copy of the game on their own computers?

This is quite important really, as you say you are trying to stop piracy, but I can only see this leading to mates shairing the game between each other. The only way I can see you being able to do anything about this is by gathering personal information from the games while they are running

Hi Dirky Diggler - We don't actively monitor you, but record information at each point of activation.

[vaz1111]

So Muzchap

What is stopping 5 different people installing one copy of the game on their own computers?

This is quite important really, as you say you are trying to stop piracy, but I can only see this leading to mates shairing the game between each other. The only way I can see you being able to do anything about this is by gathering personal information from the games while they are running

Exactly what I am thinking.

[Tyler42]

This is the year 2008, whoever that does not have the ability use his internet to active his game can use his phone, if he does not have a phone he should spend those €30 on a phone rather than FM09.

You guys are the most pathetic drama queens ive seen, you just try to find every possible way to bash SI. If your using this forum you most likely have an internet connection so stop speaking for the people who are living like its 1996, with no internet or phone. SI is doing this cause its too easy to get the game on a torrent site and I perfectly understand this decision.

[zeke]

Hi! I played the demo. (Finally got it working after a long struggle)

Intresting debate.

Basically Muzchap is saying that you will install 3rd party program which will "call home" regularly. By definion this is 3rd party program itself which is "spying" on our computer using the normal internet traffic port 80.

When I buy a game which I do regularly I intend to install the game itself nothing more. EA is a bad example of business which went the wrong way. And now this. Doesn't sound like a good business plan.

If you can guarantee that the DRM protection only calls home once and does nothing else than I might buy this... might... but I doubt you can promise any such things.

As said I like the idea that you fight piracy etc as you should but the idea of 3rd party software on your computer is absurd.

Enough trash floating around internet already without this.

[tony1]

Hi Dirky Diggler - We don't actively monitor you, but record information at each point of activation.

And according to the site of the company it will take a hardware map of my PC. Also stated that I will be able to change various components in m PC without trouble, ie. graphics card, motherboard, RAM, CPU, just how sensitive is this character map. They say, various simultaneously without affecting the basic map?