Will the DRM on FM 09 stop you from buying the game?

[TheOriginalJez]

Yes but if you lock-unlock your car more than 5 times this doesn't mean you won't be able to use it anyomre or you'll need to call the industry that sold the car to you to help you use it again...

So your example is not valid in this situation..

Erm... when you 'unlock' your car you can lock it again... just like SIs system. if you don't unlock your car to get in you need to get the lock sorted... I think it's quite valid tbh

[CrunchbiteJr]

No, I support the devs in trying to fight piracy.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Car keys just mean you have to make the extra effort of locking and unlocking your car, and using it to turn on the car... if a thief wants to steal your car he ain't gonna worry about the lock. Do you want locks taken off cars too?

Car keys don't stop major theives or people who want to steal, they just help prevent more people doing it by making it harder to do - which does go a long way to theft prevention. just like DRM.

This analogy is just so wrong I don't know where to begin. Car locks actually work to an extent for starters, it takes a bit of effort to steal a car that's been locked. More importantly as each car is a single object you can't break into a car and then have all other similar cars available for everyone to pick up and use as their own without any fear of consenquences. Car theft is also something a small amount of people make their living with so it's not comparable to piracy. Piracy, whether you like it or not, is quite common among large number of people who don't usually have tendencies to criminal behavior. Piracy is not something that people guilty of that offense usually see as a crime.

Now if the DRM actually worked, and by working I mean that it would actually harm the pirates instead of paying customers, then I'd see a point to it. But the fact is it does not work like that. This game will be cracked within a week of release, and that's a very optimistic prediction. It's more likely it will be available for illegal download before the 14th. Now how exactly will this prevent piracy when pirates will probably be playing this game before the paying customers will be able to authenticate theirs?

[TheOriginalJez]

It takes effort to steal software that's DRM protected and it's something most people can't do until someone else removes the DRM.

I didn't say car locks were the equivalent of DRM I said they were like them. And the fact remains that more people would pirate if DRM wasn't there. With DRM only people who can remove the DRM can start the piracy - it's a relatively small number of people and lets face it once the law catches up it'll make it a damn sight easier to catch them and fine them for all the copies they gave away for free.

Edit. Plus with the way people seem to think copyright law doesn't even exist the very fact they have to do this at least shows people what they're doing is wrong... it's a start.

[treble_yell_:-)]

It takes effort to steal software that's DRM protected and it's something most people can't do until someone else removes the DRM.

I didn't say car locks were the equivalent of DRM I said they were like them. And the fact remains that more people would pirate if DRM wasn't there. With DRM only people who can remove the DRM can start the piracy - it's a relatively small number of people and lets face it once the law catches up it'll make it a damn sight easier to catch them and fine them for all the copies they gave away for free.

You really have no idea what the complaint is do you ?

Maybe your genuinely have no knowledge of how scene groups work.......But one of the groups will have a gold copy of FM09 before retail, they will have it cracked, and it will be available on all the torrent sites/usenet/ftps days before retail.

So please feel free to tell us how DRM is going to stop piracy , DRM has never to this day stopped a game being pirated, its never stopped a game being made available before , the piracy is rarely started from some random joe who decided to upload an ISO to BT, its all coming from scene groups, and its coming earlier and earlier.

DRM in no way shape or form has ANY effect on legitimate owners of software, in response to your edit, do you really believe people are stupid and don't realise when they dl copyrighted material that its not illegal ? they do they just don't care.

[TheOriginalJez]

And you had no idea what I was saying so lets just leave it. Already ruined one topic this week with a guy who didn't seem to have even heard of any parts of the Berne convention.

[Äktsjon Männ]

It takes effort to steal software that's DRM protected and it's something most people can't do until someone else removes the DRM.

I didn't say car locks were the equivalent of DRM I said they were like them. And the fact remains that more people would pirate if DRM wasn't there. With DRM only people who can remove the DRM can start the piracy - it's a relatively small number of people and lets face it once the law catches up it'll make it a damn sight easier to catch them and fine them for all the copies they gave away for free.

You don't make much sense, I'm afraid. Most people can't crack a cd-check either, why not continue to use this method? EA uses pretty much the toughest DRM anyone can think of. Spore had it. It was cracked two days before release date. Red Alert 3 has it. It was cracked in no time after the game was out somewhere, making it available for download before the release date in Europe. Every PC game in the last few years that has been worth cracking has been available to download illegally before the official release or right after it (except the starforce ones but that meant physically destroying cd-drives of the people who legitimately bought the games in order to stop piracy - and it took maybe a few weeks to crack anyway).

The release groups will be there as long as there's demand. It's incredibly naive to think the law will be able to do anything either, it's not like they haven't tried. Punishing legitimate customers for buying their games is a bit over the top way of dealing with it.

[treble_yell_:-)]

And you had no idea what I was saying so lets just leave it. Already ruined one topic this week with a guy who didn't seem to have even heard of any parts of the Berne convention.

I see what your saying, you think the DRM is going to be some sort of hindrance to the scene groups.

You claim more people would pirate if DRM wasn't there.

You seem to think piracy comes from Joe average in his bedroom uploading copies of games, and that the scene groups are a "few people the law will soon catch up with"

all this shows a clear lack of knowledge of how internet piracy works

[TheOriginalJez]

BitTorrent isn't the only way people pir... ah forget it. I concede defeat to your greater wisdom. Without DRM it'd be exactly the same - just the hack groups would decide to have a go at it and it would only be redistributed through bittorrent. forgive my ignorance.

[treble_yell_:-)]

BitTorrent isn't the only way people pir... ah forget it. I concede defeat to your greater wisdom. Without DRM it'd be exactly the same - just the hack groups would decide to have a go at it and it would only be redistributed through bittorrent. forgive my ignorance.

Sorry , please feel free to point out how DRM stops johhny in the play ground giving the game to 10 of his friends and them going to any of the 1000 places you can get just the crack then ?

[TheOriginalJez]

It doesn't stop them it works as a deterrant. Many more people know how to jimmy a lock and hotwire a car than actually do so. Oh right sorry I'm not allowed to use car analogies. Let's just leave it ok? We're hijacking a thread on exactly the same thing that's looped and looped and looped. I have my view, you have yours. it's gotten far too repetitive.

[Äktsjon Männ]

BitTorrent isn't the only way people pir... ah forget it. I concede defeat to your greater wisdom. Without DRM it'd be exactly the same - just the hack groups would decide to have a go at it and it would only be redistributed through bittorrent. forgive my ignorance.

Casual piracy can just as well be prevented with a cd-check. I'd say it's even more effective as people can't just borrow the game to four of their mates. So you still don't have a point I'm afraid as to why excessive limitations should be used on games.

BTW, check out Sins of a Solar Empire, a game that shipped without any form of copy protection. Not only that, the publisher of that game agreed to buy back every copy that didn't work on the computer it was bought for for whatever reason - including not meeting the system requirements! In theory everyone could have bought that game, installed it, borrowed it to all their mates, then take it back and receive a full refund. The game sold over 500,000 copies which was way more than they could have hoped. It was pirated no more than it usually would have. There must be some conclusions that can be made from that...

[TheOriginalJez]

yes a publicity stunt that increased sales based on peoples hatred of DRM...

Why not a CD-Check? How else is FM being released this year that hasn't been previously? Digital download... would CD check work there? not a chance. And for the argument that you should just keep it in case, what system did SI use last year? Securom, what system did EA have all the trouble with over Spore? Securom. Would SI have had much choice over what version of Securom they used? Highly unlikely.

Physical sales aren't gonna be valid much longer - I guaruntee you in a decade physical sales will be miniscule if anything at all. There's no point trying to deny the future, just try to prepare for it - as SI are doing quite well here.

[Äktsjon Männ]

yes a publicity stunt that increased sales based on peoples hatred of DRM...

Why not a CD-Check? How else is FM being released this year that hasn't been previously? Digital download... would CD check work there? not a chance. And for the argument that you should just keep it in case, what system did SI use last year? Securom, what system did EA have all the trouble with over Spore? Securom. Would SI have had much choice over what version of Securom they used? Highly unlikely.

Physical sales aren't gonna be valid much longer - I guaruntee you in a decade physical sales will be miniscule if anything at all. There's no point trying to deny the future, just try to prepare for it - as SI are doing quite well here.

It's actually not the first time FM is available for digital download. I doubt it was an unprotected release earlier, yet this is the first time we see excessive limitations. Why? Did people who downloaded a digital version of the game lend it on to their mates? No, it was never just a matter of burning the data on disk and copying on another computer. It required more knowledge, something a casual gamer like me or you (I assume of course) doesn't have.

Securom is not a standard protection system, it can be used to simply perform a cd-check or to mess up peoples computers completely and limit the usability of games. The functionality is decided by the publisher. There are also other, less intrusive copy protection methods available, all good enough that your average user can't crack on his own.

The point is an average user cannot crack a copy protection in whatever shape or form it's presented to him. If he can't just go and effectively copy it on his mates computer then that's a good enough method to stop the piracy on his part. People that are aware how online piracy works however will always be able to download whatever game they wish for free, it simply doesn't matter how tough the protection may seem. The bottom line is that as long as all the above is true it's no use thinking up methods that only affect those that buy the game for personal use. The simplest and less restrictive methods will go down much better among the customer base and are just as effective against casual piracy - and just as ineffective against online piracy.

BTW, don't you think there's a reason for people's hatred of DRM? And furthermore, if this 'publicity stunt' as you put it helps to up the sales then why not use it instead of DRM? It did not result in mass pirating as every other publisher would like you to believe, instead it got them more sales, I personally see it as a very good marketing strategy.

[woody2goody]

While I'm not a big fan of the system simply because I don't like someone dictating to me how many times I can install a game which I paid my money for, while those who download it illegally can install it infinite times, it won't stop me buying FM09

At the end of the day the only way it will affect us is if our computer breaks and we can't get on to windows to uninstall FM, and that has to happen five times, which is very unlikely considering I've had my computer for 8 months without it breaking once

So while I don't like the principle of it, if you sit back and think about it for a second it's really not that bad, especially when you compare it to EA's god awful protection system

I agree wholeheartedly. We're paying 30 pounds for the game and we get told how we can use it. It's like buying an album off the itunes store and then only being allowed to listen to it 10 times.

It's bad enough when EA and other game companies are charging you obscene amounts of money for downloadable content.

I don't like Steam after previous experiences, but I'll be doing the registration online so it shouldn't matter.

[TheOriginalJez]

I don't know about the game so I can't comment (on which grounds I could also assume the game was crap and noone pirated it cos noone wanted it and the sales were almost purely from the publicity stunt).

People seem to hate DRM because it limits them to what they're legally allowed to do. There's a very false belief that when you buy a game it's yours to do what you like with because you bought it. Well that couldn't be much further from the truth - games are protected in the same way music is by copyright law and the EUCD over here, DMCA in the US and a whole host of other laws enforcing the berne convention and its decendents. Games are only yours as they are licensed to you - it's the protected right of the creator of the work. And quite frankly if you don't like it instead of whining just don't play games. It's not your right to play with someone elses toy or someone elses creation. You use what someone else has created on their terms, or you don't use them. Fair and simple.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I don't know about the game so I can't comment (on which grounds I could also assume the game was crap and noone pirated it cos noone wanted it and the sales were almost purely from the publicity stunt).

The reviews of that particular game seem to generally disagree with that.

People seem to hate DRM because it limits them to what they're legally allowed to do. There's a very false belief that when you buy a game it's yours to do what you like with because you bought it. Well that couldn't be much further from the truth - games are protected in the same way music is by copyright law and the EUCD over here, DMCA in the US and a whole host of other laws enforcing the berne convention and its decendents. Games are only yours as they are licensed to you - it's the protected right of the creator of the work. And quite frankly if you don't like it instead of whining just don't play games. It's not your right to play with someone elses toy or someone elses creation. You use what someone else has created on their terms, or you don't use them. Fair and simple.

Let's put it that way, if you buy a music CD would you accept it if you had to authenticate it before you could listen to it and then after you've listened it five times you would need to phone someone asking for permission to use the CD that you've bought. Because technically you're not buying the music either, you're just purchasing the license to listen to it. Sounds outrageous? It does for me at least. Why do people in PC industry see it as an acceptable approach then?

Of course we could all vote with our wallets. I know I will in the future if I run into a problem with FM 2009 that's something to do with their DRM. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't voice our opinions about it, it's something people do not agree with and eventually, when such an approach will start to hit sales, we might see a change in the general thinking about how the industry should adopt to a world where piracy is always going to be a variable to consider.

[TheOriginalJez]

You don't understand the DRM authentication system SI have implemented do you? You can have up to 5 simultaneous installs. You uninstall one you get that install back and you can do install it again. The only time you run out is if you don't uninstall it 5 times...

As for the music I pray to god there'd be a system for protecting the music better than it does. Do you have any idea how much piracy has cost the music industry? And who do you think has taken the losses? I'll give you a clue it ain't the record company execs.

[Äktsjon Männ]

You don't understand the DRM authentication system SI have implemented do you? You can have up to 5 simultaneous installs. You uninstall one you get that install back and you can do install it again. The only time you run out is if you don't uninstall it 5 times...

I understand it fully well, I specifically asked Miles about it in the sticky thread. The very fact that there is a chance that I might run out of installs or that the authentication service might stop some day is indicative of a wrong approach. I'm not talking about FM specifically in this thread either, as I've put earlier, however bad SI's system is it's nowhere near as evil as EA's. As it stands, I'm willing to keep purchasing SI products, something I cannot say about EA though.

As for the music I pray to god there'd be a system for protecting the music better than it does. Do you have any idea how much piracy has cost the music industry? And who do you think has taken the losses? I'll give you a clue it ain't the record company execs.

Do you know the reason why it isn't the execs who are taking the losses? Are you aware of what percentages of profit is what the artists get out of their contracts? How do you think restrictive methods on music releases would affect sales? It's never as straight forward as we'd like it to be is it?

[Althaz]

Considering this is a game the vast majority of us buy a new version of every year (or maybe every other year, but I digress), how the hell could you possibly use up five installs? That's you formatting your hard drive (short of complete hard drive failure there's no other way to use up an installation) every 73 days - that's every two and a half months. If you're doing that for some reason, then just uninstall the game once or twice. I for one welcome this move, now at last I don't have to mount an image to play the game without the CD in drive (which I'm just not into). People (including me) complained about having the disc in the drive, now (in some cases) those very same people are complaining about the most mild of alternatives - an online verification when you install the game - not even when you play it!

There are overly draconian systems of DRM, like SecuRom when it objects to the running of image mounting programs, but what's being introduced to FM is not one of them.

[TheOriginalJez]

Do you know the reason why it isn't the execs who are taking the losses? Are you aware of what percentages of profit is what the artists get out of their contracts? How do you think restrictive methods on music releases would affect sales? It's never as straight forward as we'd like it to be is it?

Not at all, I do my best to remain oblivious to my potential income with the majors usually in the region of 10-20% for the lot. But that is no excuse for piracy, the fact is the people who worked so hard to make the music that gets pirated used to at least be able to survive from rec company advances even if they never saw the day they recouped to actually earn their royalty now can't do anything. They're being forced out - yes there's still a lot of money in live performance and royalties from radio play (assuming the artist is also the composer) but it's still ridiculous. You can't blame record companies MORE than the people who pirate. It's ridiculous.

And how about iTunes? They use DRM and they are pretty much the only major growing part of music sales.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Not at all, I do my best to remain oblivious to my potential income with the majors usually in the region of 10-20% for the lot. But that is no excuse for piracy, the fact is the people who worked so hard to make the music that gets pirated used to at least be able to survive from rec company advances even if they never saw the day they recouped to actually earn their royalty now can't do anything. They're being forced out - yes there's still a lot of money in live performance and royalties from radio play (assuming the artist is also the composer) but it's still ridiculous. You can't blame record companies MORE than the people who pirate. It's ridiculous.

And how about iTunes? They use DRM and they are pretty much the only major growing part of music sales.

So are you implying you are a music artist? (You'll have to excuse me, my grasp of English is too poor to fully understand the allusion in your first sentence :o). If so I can understand your standpoint a bit more than I did before.

Nevertheless, I am not actually putting the blame on anyone specifically. What I did say is that it's never as straight forward as we'd like it to be, you can't assume that by limiting peoples use of the CD's they're buying would increase sales and thus increase profit. iTunes is another piece of software I'm not willing to use as I like to have a physical collection of music records, be it on cd-s or whatever other media as long as I can hold it in my hand and insert it in my stereo. The day that option is taken away from us is the day I personally stop purchasing music.

[TheOriginalJez]

Yep, at the bottom rung right now but all the same, I'm also working with a few people with a project that could hopefully lead to a digital equivalent of a record company (somewhere between digital distribution and record company, not really the place to explain lol) - I mention cos if that works as planned I'm going to be in a position where I have to deal with the DRM question myself. Personally right now I believe it's a necessary evil for music.

And it's sad cos I like the physical copies too but the days of mass-marketed physicals are numbered... of course you'll always be able to get them in one way or another though I hope

[Äktsjon Männ]

Yep, at the bottom rung right now but all the same, I'm also working with a few people with a project that could hopefully lead to a digital equivalent of a record company (somewhere between digital distribution and record company, not really the place to explain lol) - I mention cos if that works as planned I'm going to be in a position where I have to deal with the DRM question myself. Personally right now I believe it's a necessary evil for music.

And it's sad cos I like the physical copies too but the days of mass-marketed physicals are numbered... of course you'll always be able to get them in one way or another though I hope

Well I guess it's one way to look at it. Anyhow, I wish you and your project the best of luck and I hope I didn't come across as someone who actively encourages piracy and disregards the work behind intellectual property - be it music or PC software. It's just the methods talked about and put in practise I don't quite agree with. But that's just my opinion and I can just as well accept yours. I guess we'll see in a few years how it'll all work out. Maybe it's something we'll all accept as inevitability, or maybe well see better ways of dealing with piracy as well as protecting both the creator of intellectual property and the customer.

[TheOriginalJez]

Well I guess it's one way to look at it. Anyhow' date=' I wish you and your project the best of luck and I hope I didn't come across as someone who actively encourages piracy and disregards the work behind intellectual property - be it music or PC software. It's just the methods talked about and put in practise I don't quite agree with. But that's just my opinion and I can just as well accept yours. I guess we'll see in a few years how it'll all work out. Maybe it's something we'll all accept as inevitability, or maybe well see better ways of dealing with piracy as well as protecting both the creator of intellectual property and the customer.[/quote']

thank you & not at all, I know your qualm is with method rather than intention. like you said we'll find out soon enough

[Themistofelis]

Apart from drm , will it use securom as well ?

[TheOriginalJez]

no, just the drm.

[Vasile]

Guys... the DRM protection will never stop a pirate from distributing the game on the p2p sites. After the launch date, the game will be already cracked by different release groups. This also happened with Spore, Far Cry 2 and Fallout 3. This protection exists now in the FM 09 just to be there...

Personally i consider this the worst idea of SI Games ever. I won't buy the game anymore...because i really don't get anything in return for buying the game.....except a headache when installing the game.

Seriously now... a SI Games member should post here... or at least should pay attention to this topic because people are really annoyed by this crappy protection.

[TheOriginalJez]

Vasile I don't see what they could say... 'please actually read what we've already posted a million times'? If a 30 second authentication gives you a headache I'm sorry but... you need a doctor not DRM removal.

Most of the whining from people who are also saying they won't get the game because of it comes from actually misunderstanding the 5 seats rule (which isn't the same as spores, you get an install back when you uninstall fm09), stubborn blind ignorance over the three letters D R and M and thus assuming it's all evil and horrible and hard work or simply not reading the basic information they gave out, or any number of people have repeated over and over. What do you want them to do? DRM ain't gonna get removed - the games already in manufacture, it's out of their hands even if for some reason they wanted to. Dya think they just snapped on this instead of giving it plenty of thought?

[Dirky Diggler]

Ill just borrow my mates copy, 5 of us will club together to pay the 17.50, so essentially we all get a copy of the game for £3.50p cheers SI. Im starting to like DRM!! wont hit sales my arse

[treble_yell_:-)]

I don't know about the game so I can't comment (on which grounds I could also assume the game was crap and noone pirated it cos noone wanted it and the sales were almost purely from the publicity stunt).

Instead of all the assuming you do you could always use this new thing, its called google and lets you find out almost anything you want.

Sins was published by stardock , a company that doesnt use DRM or any form of copy protection on their games, Galactic civilisations, it sequels and its x-packs , as well as sins have received massive critical acclaim, massive sales ( sins sold 1 mill plus world wide, for an independent dev and small publisher this is amazing)

Stardocks stand on DRM and the QUALITY of its games have proven a winning formula, as has their gamers bill of rights. Its been such a success Gas Powered Games (devs of supreme commander i assume you at least have heard of that) are releaseing their next game through stardock, with no DRM.

[philly_flyer10]

Hmmm, this is exactly what I thought would happen, the DRM wont stop iit being pirated but will stop 22% of potential consumers from buying the game.

A perfect example of why DRM doesnt work, only affects legitimate buyers and costs the company sales, rather than improving sales as the DRM manufacturers obviously brainwash companies into thinking.

[TheOriginalJez]

Instead of all the assuming you do you could always use this new thing, its called google and lets you find out almost anything you want.

Sins was published by stardock , a company that doesnt use DRM or any form of copy protection on their games, Galactic civilisations, it sequels and its x-packs , as well as sins have received massive critical acclaim, massive sales ( sins sold 1 mill plus world wide, for an independent dev and small publisher this is amazing)

Stardocks stand on DRM and the QUALITY of its games have proven a winning formula, as has their gamers bill of rights. Its been such a success Gas Powered Games (devs of supreme commander i assume you at least have heard of that) are releaseing their next game through stardock, with no DRM.

I wasn't saying it was crap I was simply saying I couldn't form an opinion either way so i couldn't comment - you can tell me it's amazing and i'd probably believe you but for all I know it could be the worst game in history and I don't care enough to find out tbh. that was their decision. unless you're an exec at sega or si none of us make the marketing decisions and we have to assume they had reason to... you don't usually get the job if you can't do it (outside EA )

[Dirky Diggler]

To see what sort of effect piracy has should compare game sales on the ps3 to sales on the 360. Once the consoles equal out in the wild that is then you will see one completly hacked system vs one unhacked system, if the sales of say fifa 09 are equal on both consoles then piracy cant be having that much affect on sales.

PC is slightly different coz its slightly easier, but sins is a great example of a great game selling no matter what

[Cityull]

This would never stop me from buying the game.

But whats stopping me from putting it on my laptop at my house, then my dads computer and my uncles etc.

surely they know about this.

Technically if you buy one you buy 5 copies of the game???

[Themistofelis]

related

[feedthegoat]

I know quite a few people who have played the FM/CM series going right back to CM93 on the Amiga and not one of them has ever owned a pirated copy.

I don't think that if SI hadn't of put DRM on this version of FM that sales would have been any lower compared to last years game, they have a very loyal fan base, who love the game and will buy the game no matter what, now all they have done is alienated some people by adding this deterrent onto the game, and so driving some of those people away and maybe even downloading it illegally, this is something I'd never do, I'm not that crazy. Although what I intend to do, as I've already said, is to wait and gauge other peoples reaction to the authentication especially the telephone method as this would have to be my chosen method.

If anything sales of this game may even be lower than previous years, this will remain to be seen how sales fair especially leading up to Christmas, as quite obviously there are going to be a whole lot of consumers who will not know anything about DRM and this may even effect next years sales.

[Dirky Diggler]

Im guessing the lack of replies means they didnt think it through properly and are now altering the way it works so the 5 installs are locked onto one computer, cant see how with telephone activation

Otherwise, yes, you are buying 5 copies for the price of one, however legal it is to install on different computers I have no idea, however if 5 people club together and buy the game then each owns a 5th of the license of the game so I guess each are entitled to install it on their computers

[Richie Brill]

It's the best idea SI have come up with to try and stop the pirates getting their own way! If they have not got a code to authenticate with then how are they going to play the game? Simple answer really, they won't! WELL DONE SI!!!!

[Neji]

It's the best idea SI have come up with to try and stop the pirates getting their own way! If they have not got a code to authenticate with then how are they going to play the game? Simple answer really, they won't! WELL DONE SI!!!!

By removing the need for authentication.

[Dirky Diggler]

It's the best idea SI have come up with to try and stop the pirates getting their own way! If they have not got a code to authenticate with then how are they going to play the game? Simple answer really, they won't! WELL DONE SI!!!!

Gold medal for naievety goes to Richie Brill!!!

Congratulations

Speech speech speech speech!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[feedthegoat]

It's the best idea SI have come up with to try and stop the pirates getting their own way! If they have not got a code to authenticate with then how are they going to play the game? Simple answer really, they won't! WELL DONE SI!!!!

Er, well they've already cracked Spore, Red Alert 3, and Far Cry 2 which were supposed to have the toughest security available, shall I carry on?

Guarantee you within hours of this game being released a cracked version will be available.

If a human can make a security procedure, then a human with the know how can undo it as well.

[Äktsjon Männ]

It's the best idea SI have come up with to try and stop the pirates getting their own way! If they have not got a code to authenticate with then how are they going to play the game? Simple answer really, they won't! WELL DONE SI!!!!

You can't be serious

All this DRM will be cracked out of the game most likely before the 14th of november. Chances are pirates will be playing the game a day or two before legitimate customers can authenticate theirs.

[Althaz]

There will be a crack that circumvents the activation requirement within hours if not minutes of release, that's just the way it goes. Any form of copy protection is ultimately useless if it's aimed at stopping pirates - the only possible thing to do is discourage casual pirating (eg: people burning the game for their mates), although publishers seem to have forgotten this.

That said, I much prefer online activation to CD checking, as I mentioned before.

[Dirky Diggler]

You can't be serious

All this DRM will be cracked out of the game most likely before the 14th of november. Chances are pirates will be playing the game a day or two before legitimate customers can authenticate theirs.

Sad, But true.

[ElDani]

Dirky Diggler, that doesn't work because the Xbox360 and the PS3 are two completely different consoles with a userbase you can hardly compare to each other. The fact is that the PS3 is a Sony-subventioned multimedia center that wants to be a gaming console while the Xbox360 is a cheaper product that only focuses on gaming. Taking that into account, you'll never know how many of the 15 million PS3 consoles were bought only to view BluRay movies, because the console is obviously cheaper and better than any 2.0 live capable standalone player right now. Sony has already admitted that they'd need to sell about 4 additional games for each console to break even and they haven't been able to do that. Without good statistical data about console owners and possible buyers, this comparison will never be close to objective. And don't forget those people who have both consoles and will buy a game on one or the other for their own private reasons.

Richie Brill, I agree with your sentiment. I also have to tell you that you're dead wrong! Most games are available to many pirates on their release day or maybe shortly afterwards. There have always been ways around copy protection mechanisms and this new DRM won't stop pirates either.

The real question is possibly how many 'casual pirates' will be forced to buy their own games with a DRM or copy protection. Take a CD check and you might be able to trick the game into thinking you've put in the original - by the mere use of some software and depending on the protection you might need a certain group of cd/dvd drives in order to create a perfect image. A DRM systems with multiple installations per license will possibly allow you to share your game but there's a limit to that. This new DRM will only work to Sega's advantage if the 'casual pirate' who has no outside help (game-downloads from the Internet for example) has been pirating the game more than 4 times in the past. If the average number was below 4 he now has an even easier time to spread the game around. Personally I don't know these statistics and I don't care much for them either but you can see that there are multiple points of view on copy protection and how it can affect sales. Some publishers are obviously short-sighted because they forget the impact of a DRM system on possible customers or their satisfaction and willingness to stay a paying customer in the coming years.

[feedthegoat]

^^ Good Post.

A bit long, but a good post nonetheless.

[Dirky Diggler]

Dirky Diggler, that doesn't work because the Xbox360 and the PS3 are two completely different consoles with a userbase you can hardly compare to each other. The fact is that the PS3 is a Sony-subventioned multimedia center that wants to be a gaming console while the Xbox360 is a cheaper product that only focuses on gaming. Taking that into account, you'll never know how many of the 15 million PS3 consoles were bought only to view BluRay movies, because the console is obviously cheaper and better than any 2.0 live capable standalone player right now. Sony has already admitted that they'd need to sell about 4 additional games for each console to break even and they haven't been able to do that. Without good statistical data about console owners and possible buyers, this comparison will never be close to objective. And don't forget those people who have both consoles and will buy a game on one or the other for their own private reasons.

Richie Brill, I agree with your sentiment. I also have to tell you that you're dead wrong! Most games are available to many pirates on their release day or maybe shortly afterwards. There have always been ways around copy protection mechanisms and this new DRM won't stop pirates either.

The real question is possibly how many 'casual pirates' will be forced to buy their own games with a DRM or copy protection. Take a CD check and you might be able to trick the game into thinking you've put in the original - by the mere use of some software and depending on the protection you might need a certain group of cd/dvd drives in order to create a perfect image. A DRM systems with multiple installations per license will possibly allow you to share your game but there's a limit to that. This new DRM will only work to Sega's advantage if the 'casual pirate' who has no outside help (game-downloads from the Internet for example) has been pirating the game more than 4 times in the past. If the average number was below 4 he now has an even easier time to spread the game around. Personally I don't know these statistics and I don't care much for them either but you can see that there are multiple points of view on copy protection and how it can affect sales. Some publishers are obviously short-sighted because they forget the impact of a DRM system on possible customers or their satisfaction and willingness to stay a paying customer in the coming years.

The authentication system itself will be bypassed, so no casual pirates will be affected, there will be clear instructions what to do to get the game to work.

Whats to stop loads of people coming together say 100 and buying 20 copies of the game between them? losing 80 sales?

or more once the idea hits social networking sites?

What your gonna have is pirates pirating as usual AND people exploiting this 5 install crap

[Äktsjon Männ]

The real question is possibly how many 'casual pirates' will be forced to buy their own games with a DRM or copy protection. Take a CD check and you might be able to trick the game into thinking you've put in the original - by the mere use of some software and depending on the protection you might need a certain group of cd/dvd drives in order to create a perfect image. A DRM systems with multiple installations per license will possibly allow you to share your game but there's a limit to that. This new DRM will only work to Sega's advantage if the 'casual pirate' who has no outside help (game-downloads from the Internet for example) has been pirating the game more than 4 times in the past. If the average number was below 4 he now has an even easier time to spread the game around. Personally I don't know these statistics and I don't care much for them either but you can see that there are multiple points of view on copy protection and how it can affect sales. Some publishers are obviously short-sighted because they forget the impact of a DRM system on possible customers or their satisfaction and willingness to stay a paying customer in the coming years.

This is where this logic fails. The casual pirate you're talking about will not have been able to circumvent the cd-check without downloading an online content. It's not that easy to do and if someone has been able to do that then they surely have the knowledge to get around this DRM as well.

To stop casual piracy all you need to do is make it impossible to simply copy the content on another computer and make it work without the need for extra knowledge. When CD images, cracks and other methods come into play it's another world altogether and the person who is able to make these work is knowledgeable enough to find other ways to pirate.

[treble_yell_:-)]

The authentication system itself will be bypassed, so no casual pirates will be affected, there will be clear instructions what to do to get the game to work.

Whats to stop loads of people coming together say 100 and buying 20 copies of the game between them? losing 80 sales?

or more once the idea hits social networking sites?

What your gonna have is pirates pirating as usual AND people exploiting this 5 install crap

IIRC the ps3 had an issue like this when it was first launched, you bought a game off psn and could install it on 5 ps3's , people were just going to their friends house, signing in on their psn account and downloading the game for them.

What i see happening is no effect on the internet piracy , but a rise in people going to school and sharing it with mates