Will the DRM on FM 09 stop you from buying the game?

[Wakers]

lol Mate it wqon't restrict me anyway whatsoever.You can not say that to me as you have absolutely no idea how I use my game.

As i said I only install it twice at max.Having played FM from it's first incarnation I know this much,so, apart from restricting me (which it won't) maybe you can help me on the other negatives of this system.

I obviously cannot because you either aren't able to or refuse to understand the point.

[Hamselv]

The DRM was part of the Securom system... in the past Securom has just been copyprotection but newer versions of the system have gone a few steps further. (And I believe, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, was one of the main reasons SI went away from it this year)

SecuROM can still be used to provide just a simple disc check, as is the case with Fallout 3. I haven't seen anyone complain about that, and if that had been the copy protection of choice for FM09, then I would gladly have bought the game.

The new system is nothing to do with Securom or Safedisk, or any of the other systems we've used in the past. It's a new system, and one that I have no evidence to not support being used in our games, and no evidence that the system and customer support for it that will be provided for the system are going to be anything but better than we have been able to offer before for the legitimate customer.

If the DRM is something used previously by other companies then, unless it's somehow against some kind of rules you have to follow, it might be a good idea to publish the name of the DRM. That would allow people to research it themselves, and if it really is such a "gentle" DRM, then that might convince a few people to reconsider not getting the game.

My initial guess when I read about the DRM used in FM09 was "TAGES". That is often considered the less evil DRM compared to SecuROM (when it's used as DRM) - The main reason being that TAGES uninstalls itself when the game is uninstalled, whereas with SecuROM you need to download a separate uninstaller to get rid of it.

Besides that difference there's not too much that separates TAGES from SecuROM in my opinion. So, hopefully I'm not right in guessing that you are using TAGES?

[digsy11]

I obviously cannot because you either aren't able to or refuse to understand the point.

Oh my god.You said it will restrict me did you not? I take it that's your point (allowing for the pirate issue) so, again, i ask if it DOES NOT restrict me then tell me what my problem is?

[TheOriginalJez]

and now you're just being downright silly. Why did these people gain support in the first place? Because they're good at what they do.

And a LOT of expensive promotion. Provided funnily enough by record labels who make their money from what... selling records at set fees? My days... lets leave it here I won't reply to anymore about this myself anyway. It's getting ridiculous.

[eshaan]

Again I'll ask you the question..If you only install the game once you're not limited, so how many times do you install a version of FM?

Why DRM? Why should we have only 5 installs? Maybe it is unlikely that you will install the game 5 times but still how does it give the company a right to limit the number of installs we have? Now i know my computer has crashed suddenly and in such a scenario i can not uninstall the game before the computer crashes so i lose 1 install slot already. Is that fair? And everyone does not buy a new version of the game everyyear and if they want to play it suddenly 5 years down the line and they realize they dont have anymore install slots left..then? We who pay for the game are limited while the pirates can just play for ever with no limits!

[treble_yell_:-)]

You can't sell what people don't know about. Most people need a LOT of expensive promotion to live from their music and for that they need financial backing, ie a record company. Trent Reznor and Radiohead have MASSIVE followings. They can afford for only 20% of their fanbase to pay if they get 100% of the royalties. Not many people can.

This is becoming less and less so though, bands can do some pretty good self promotion on the internet, the big labels are worried because they are becoming more and more marginalised, so turn to the easy target for what to blame.

Big labels may be still the norm for now, but as the internet continues to become a mainstream way for music to be purchased, this is changing, bands are happy to self promote on social networking sites etc and let the music buying public decide if they are good , if they are we are one short step from buying music from the artists direct.

This way the user gets to decide what's worth buying, and not limited by whatever artists the label bosses think we want to hear.

Companies catering to the paying public will prosper, companies like stardock and GPG

http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights

[Wakers]

Oh my god.You said it will restrict me did you not? I take it that's your point (allowing for the pirate issue) so, again, i ask if it DOES NOT restrict me then tell me what my problem is?

What gives a company the right to tell you what you can do with something you've paid for? Are they a branch of the police? No. That should answer your question, try not to ignore it this time.

[Wakers]

And a LOT of expensive promotion. Provided funnily enough by record labels who make their money from what... selling records at set fees? My days... lets leave it here I won't reply to anymore about this myself anyway. It's getting ridiculous.

Arctic Monkeys. Their first album was a bestseller thanks to MySpace. You are living way, way in the past.

[digsy11]

Why DRM? Why should we have only 5 installs? Maybe it is unlikely that you will install the game 5 times but still how does it give the company a right to limit the number of installs we have? Now i know my computer has crashed suddenly and in such a scenario i can not uninstall the game before the computer crashes so i lose 1 install slot already. Is that fair? And everyone does not buy a new version of the game everyyear and if they want to play it suddenly 5 years down the line and they realize they dont have anymore install slots left..then? We who pay for the game are limited while the pirates can just play for ever with no limits!

But pirates have always been able to do this.I take your point about losing 1 licence but neither you or the other fella (sorry I forget his name) has answered me on how many times you install the version of FM you play.

Miles has also said you can authenticate your game 10 years down the line.Are you calling him a liar?

[Wakers]

But pirates have always been able to do this.I take your point about losing 1 licence but neither you or the other fella (sorry I forget his name) has answered me on how many times you install the version of FM you play.

Miles has also said you can authenticate your game 10 years down the line.Are you calling him a liar?

Napster said they would never shut down. I wouldn't call Miles a liar, but I wouldn't call him a Fortune Teller either.

I;ve installed FM08 about 8 times on 4 different computers. I still don't get what that has to do with my main point though. Doubtless you'll inform me of something else that has nothing to do with the bigger argument.

[Wakers]

But pirates have always been able to do this.I take your point about losing 1 licence but neither you or the other fella (sorry I forget his name) has answered me on how many times you install the version of FM you play.

Miles has also said you can authenticate your game 10 years down the line.Are you calling him a liar?

Exactly, so why bother with it?

[digsy11]

What gives a company the right to tell you what you can do with something you've paid for? Are they a branch of the police? No. That should answer your question, try not to ignore it this time.

I understand this.Will you answer my original question now?

[Wakers]

I understand this.Will you answer my original question now?

i did .

[digsy11]

Exactly, so why bother with it?

So you can install it an play without the use of the cd? Is that correct?

[ElDani]

TheOriginalJez, I agree with you that a record label can still be of help to artists today. What you also have to tell is how they will be exploited for taking that help. The undeniable truth is that the administrative overhead of most (big) record label is so large that it goes beyond the important issues an artist might need help with in the first place: producing, publishing and advertising.

Any clever artist can do these things himself nowadays because the market for digital music is growing larger and larger. Producing music will still be a challenge but publishing can be done via Tunecore for the start. That allows you a pay-rate of 50-70% depending on the service and that is considerably more than anything an artist gets after the record label takes its cut. Advertising isn't very hard either, what you need is some amount of talent which will ultimately make you known well enough. A friend of mine who I've known for 15 years has started this way two years ago as part of a small two-person group. Today they are able to live comfortably from their earnings as artists (that includes royalties, live performances and merchandise).

All that being said, record labels still have the power and influence to make someone a star, no doubt about that. What few people notice is how that works: connections with the "old media" like radio, tv or magazines. Their headway into the new digital media has been rare for a long time and when most labels finally got the message it was a difficult game of catching up. And they're still at it

[TheOriginalJez]

Arctic Monkeys. Their first album was a bestseller thanks to MySpace. You are living way, way in the past.

Backtrack on my claim of not replying once. The Arctic Monkeys 'indie label' Domino actually had the backing of EMI among others (some reports that they were signed to EMI weren't quite on the money) on the release of their first album, nothing is quite as it seems in the music industry believe me.

[digsy11]

i did .

Sorry my original question was how many times do you install FM over the period of time you play it? I missed your answer if you did answer this?

[eshaan]

But pirates have always been able to do this.I take your point about losing 1 licence but neither you or the other fella (sorry I forget his name) has answered me on how many times you install the version of FM you play.

Miles has also said you can authenticate your game 10 years down the line.Are you calling him a liar?

I have installed it 3 times in the last year. once the orignal installation, once due to a system crash( i would not have been able to un install FM before t crashed) and once when i wanted to play the game without the patch which i had used. Thats 3 times in a year so it leaves me with 2 more? Now if i was not to buy the next 2 versions of FM im preety sure i might end up using my 5 install slots! Thats my problem. Pirates will always be pirates. DRM or not! (in spores case DRM made it the most pirated game ever) the game WILL be pirated. So why punish the honest users for something that will anyway happen?

[Wakers]

So you can install it an play without the use of the cd? Is that correct?

I dont see how preventing us from the need to get out of our chair every so often to find a cd makes up for acting like vigilante copyright enforcers.

I installed it 8 times on 4 different computers (all mine though).

Part of that was down to the craptacular state of 8.0.1.

I just don't get why a company would give people a reason to pirate their game intentionally.

Spore should have been the death of DRM, its sad that no one will learn from a mistake.

[digsy11]

Napster said they would never shut down. I wouldn't call Miles a liar, but I wouldn't call him a Fortune Teller either.

I;ve installed FM08 about 8 times on 4 different computers. I still don't get what that has to do with my main point though. Doubtless you'll inform me of something else that has nothing to do with the bigger argument.

If you unstalled it 4times then insatlled again you have 1 licence left right?

[ReallyMadrid]

Oh my god.You said it will restrict me did you not? I take it that's your point (allowing for the pirate issue) so, again, i ask if it DOES NOT restrict me then tell me what my problem is?

If you install it once, doesn't mean that you can suddenly install it as many times as you want, or that you don't need to install a 3rd party software to make the game work, the restriction is still there. Just because it doesn't affect you personally doesn't mean the restriction is gone.

You seem to be ignoring his point just for the sake of argument.

[digsy11]

I dont see how preventing us from the need to get out of our chair every so often to find a cd makes up for acting like vigilante copyright enforcers.

I've never taken the game out my drive.It's the only game I've played on my PC for however many years it's been on it.

[Miles Jacobson]

Sorry Miles, but it IS similar to the spore system, simply because you're enforcing a limit on installs in the aim of stopping second-hand sales. On the surface, it is very similar to Spore.

Our system does not limit the amount of times you can install the software though, as if you uninstall the game, you can install it as many times as you like.

The license that you have to agree to to install the game with as many of our releases that I can remember previously only allowed one install on one computer at any one time.

If anything, our new system improves on that. And with the same licensing agreement mentioned above, it already prohibits the user from renting or selling on the license that you have purchased to be able to play the game - so the second hand market was not a consideration at all for us, as no one should be selling any of our previous titles that had said license agreed to.

[TheOriginalJez]

TheOriginalJez, I agree with you that a record label can still be of help to artists today. What you also have to tell is how they will be exploited for taking that help. The undeniable truth is that the administrative overhead of most (big) record label is so large that it goes beyond the important issues an artist might need help with in the first place: producing, publishing and advertising.

Any clever artist can do these things himself nowadays because the market for digital music is growing larger and larger. Producing music will still be a challenge but publishing can be done via Tunecore for the start. That allows you a pay-rate of 50-70% depending on the service and that is considerably more than anything an artist gets after the record label takes its cut. Advertising isn't very hard either, what you need is some amount of talent which will ultimately make you known well enough. A friend of mine who I've known for 15 years has started this way two years ago as part of a small two-person group. Today they are able to live comfortably from their earnings as artists (that includes royalties, live performances and merchandise).

All that being said, record labels still have the power and influence to make someone a star, no doubt about that. What few people notice is how that works: connections with the "old media" like radio, tv or magazines. Their headway into the new digital media has been rare for a long time and when most labels finally got the message it was a difficult game of catching up. And they're still at it

This really is my last. honest lol It's very true that the DIY method can just about make a living if you do everything yourself, however the music industry is SO fragmented these days with everyone sectioned off into little boxes and people searching for music that only fits their little box, and only being played music that fits their little box. You still need that massive backing to make it as a major artist and to get some real success - I'll give one example that goes against it, if you remember the blonde guy with dreadlocks, Newton Faulkner - he actually made his name with promotion from his publishing company rather than signing a big record deal, but even he doesn't go it alone and you'll notice the money there is not from record sales as publishing companies make the giant proportion of their money from licensing use - sync, radio play, live performance etc etc. You still need masses of money to be successful.

[digsy11]

If you install it once, doesn't mean that you can suddenly install it as many times as you want, or that you don't need to install a 3rd party software to make the game work, the restriction is still there. Just because it doesn't affect you personally doesn't mean the restriction is gone.

You seem to be ignoring his point just for the sake of argument.

If you unstall it you can install it again an still use 1 licence though.

[jack_man]

This thread seems to be for the more technically minded people so im going to leave and eat an Orange.

[metal_guitarist]

and now you're just being downright silly. Why did these people gain support in the first place? Because they're good at what they do.

Why have gaming profits gone down recently, particularly in the PC market?

Look at the games around at the moment - Nearly all are a sequel or copy of some other idea.

Most games that are hyped up last about 10 hours and then you don't play them again.

Far too many games are released in an unplayable state.

Metallica just released an album (September) that is screwed up with regards to the audio quality, yet it still went platinum in three weeks - because the music is good. If you make good stuff people will buy it! You have to get over this way of thinking that every illegal download is a lost sale.

Said Metallica album was available on torrent sites 2-3 weeks before release

[Wakers]

Our system does not limit the amount of times you can install the software though, as if you uninstall the game, you can install it as many times as you like.

The license that you have to agree to to install the game with as many of our releases that I can remember previously only allowed one install on one computer at any one time.

If anything, our new system improves on that. And with the same licensing agreement mentioned above, it already prohibits the user from renting or selling on the license that you have purchased to be able to play the game - so the second hand market was not a consideration at all for us, as no one should be selling any of our previous titles that had said license agreed to.

But does anyone pay attention to the EULA's? I doubt it - because they themselves are draconian.

I know i'm probably coming across as anti-SI here, and that's not what I want to do, so i'll probably take a step back from here.

Miles I just think and hope that if FM09 is more heavily pirated than you'd like, you will at least consider the possibility that it is a backlash against DRM and you'll learn from that, rather than just trying to to add ever more strict DRM year after year as other companies have fallen into the trap of doing.

[Wakers]

Said Metallica album was available on torrent sites 2-3 weeks before release

and it still sold better than any other album, by a long way.

[Wakers]

If you unstall it you can install it again an still use 1 licence though.

Dude you're just completely ignoring what everyone is saying to you and getting caught up in the minutest of insignificant details. I hope you're not doing it on purpose.

[TheOriginalJez]

Dude you're just completely ignoring what everyone is saying to you and getting caught up in the minutest of insignificant details. I hope you're not doing it on purpose.

I think he's getting the point quite well to be honest... this isn't a massive government conspiracy to make your gaming life hell it's just an authentication process that'll take 30 seconds and assuming we've been told the truth nothing else to worry about. You can dream up all the situations you like where you use up those five installs and where SI evilly spy on you and plot to take over the world and go screaming down the halls in a fit of rage unable to play your game but in all honesty are you not making a mountain out of the proverbial molehill?

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

Be interested to know what SI's opinion is on the fact that just over a fifth of people who have voted on this poll, say they will not be buying their product this year.

Fair enough it's only a small portion of the entire FM purchasing public. I have initially voted "Yes" although if there was an option for "At the moment yes" then I would have chosen that.

Hehe. I'm going to apply some recently acquired econometric knowledge here. It depends how well the sample estimates the population. If it's accurate, then, that is very worrying for SI.

[ReallyMadrid]

If you unstall it you can install it again an still use 1 licence though.

Which is why I have no problem with that part as I don't see my computer dying out 5 times without me being to uninstall the game, but even though that wouldn't affect me (knock on wood) doesn't mean the restriction isn't there, while the the illegal gamers will have no such thing.

My biggest gripe is the software that you need to install to make the game work. I've read in this thread that it can be seen on how many computers you have used your cd to install with, so the software allegdly does more than just confirm you bought the game. Which again, the illegal gamers won't have to deal with.

[digsy11]

Ok from what I've read and took part in this thread my own opinion is a few of you have big bees in your bonets and it's run away with you.Two of you (who is vehemently) against this system did not use up your licences when installing the game (8 times on 4 computers for Wakers.3 installs for another chap including a crash).

I hope you both buy the game as it's excellent.I genuinely wanted to find out what was wrong with DRM (apart from limiting me which i stated it wont ATALL) but none could give a different answer than this.Therefore I sahll leave you to it.Thanks for the discussion.

[digsy11]

I think he's getting the point quite well to be honest... this isn't a massive government conspiracy to make your gaming life hell it's just an authentication process that'll take 30 seconds and assuming we've been told the truth nothing else to worry about. You can dream up all the situations you like where you use up those five installs and where SI evilly spy on you and plot to take over the world and go screaming down the halls in a fit of rage unable to play your game but in all honesty are you not making a mountain out of the proverbial molehill?

Exactly.Ciao

[Miles Jacobson]

If the DRM is something used previously by other companies then, unless it's somehow against some kind of rules you have to follow, it might be a good idea to publish the name of the DRM. That would allow people to research it themselves, and if it really is such a "gentle" DRM, then that might convince a few people to reconsider not getting the game.

My initial guess when I read about the DRM used in FM09 was "TAGES". That is often considered the less evil DRM compared to SecuROM (when it's used as DRM) - The main reason being that TAGES uninstalls itself when the game is uninstalled, whereas with SecuROM you need to download a separate uninstaller to get rid of it.

Besides that difference there's not too much that separates TAGES from SecuROM in my opinion. So, hopefully I'm not right in guessing that you are using TAGES?

We're not using TAGES either.

There are very good reasons why we won't be revealing the name of the system that we are using in advance of release - I fully believe that many of those who have voted "yes" in the poll will change their mind when the game is released, and people see how "evil" (your word) the system we are using is compared to previous systems.

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

There is one resounding point that Miles makes, that tips my view on the issue (and believe me, I quite open minded and am partial to 'battling for the little guy') - when you uninstall the game, it will un-register one usage of the licence. So, that essentially means that we have an infinite number of installs. But the catch is, if you start passing it around, your risk of losing the game increases as each licence is used up.

If you loan it to four friends, plus yourself, that is five copies of the game made. Now, you lose all insurance of in the event of a computer crash - you will have to either ask your friends (very kindly, I feel) to uninstall FM09 so that you may re-install it. Otherwise, you'll be buying a new computer as well as FM09. There is also the argument that if you keep the game to yourself, and don't loan it out, that you could lose all five installs. This would mean, essentially, that your computer has broken five times over. So, the outlay from such a misadventure would mean that you are sorely out of pocket anyway. The chances of this occurring are what, virtually nil?

Then, some would argue that perhaps people would install it on several machines that they own, and personally intend to use. Well, honestly. Why would you do that in the first place? Except the most unlikely of situations where someone would live in five different locales... well, in any event, it is as simple as uninstalling a copy at the location where you won't have access to the game! The save game will be compatible on any of the computers, anyway.

I guess the back-lash is stirring mostly from the acronym DRM, and its horrible reputation. My solution, call it: S.M.E.G (Software Management & Entity Governance)

And yes. Love Red Dwarf

[drunkpunk]

I voted No. I really dislike DRM technology as it currently is. But I do understand SI's decision to use their method of DRM instead of a simple CD check.

I think the whole licence thing is being blown out of proportion. I doubt very many people will have the game installed on 5 separate computers at once. The issue of lost licences due to computer crashes and such are a small issue that SI needs to keep an eye on in my opinion. As long as you can contact someone about a lost licence I think it won't matter too much. I image tech support team for the authentication is going to want to keep the people using and buying the game precisely because of what has happened with Spore and similar games. I bet if you explain that you're computer had some kind of major crash you'd have your licence slot reinstated.

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

I voted No. I really dislike DRM technology as it currently is. But I do understand SI's decision to use their method of DRM instead of a simple CD check.

I think the whole licence thing is being blown out of proportion. I doubt very many people will have the game installed on 5 separate computers at once. The issue of lost licences due to computer crashes and such are a small issue that SI needs to keep an eye on in my opinion. As long as you can contact someone about a lost licence I think it won't matter too much. I image tech support team for the authentication is going to want to keep the people using and buying the game precisely because of what has happened with Spore and similar games. I bet if you explain that you're computer had some kind of major crash you'd have your licence slot reinstated.

You know, if you called tech support you'd probably get Miles himself. He just loves us that much

[JonPaulWild]

We're not using TAGES either.

There are very good reasons why we won't be revealing the name of the system that we are using in advance of release - I fully believe that many of those who have voted "yes" in the poll will change their mind when the game is released, and people see how "evil" (your word) the system we are using is compared to previous systems.

Miles, will the authentication system allow games that have been dispatched from the likes of Play.com to be played a day or two early due to dispatching by Play.com? Or will it be very strict and allow the game to be authorized after a certain time on November 14th

[Hamselv]

We're not using TAGES either.

There are very good reasons why we won't be revealing the name of the system that we are using in advance of release - I fully believe that many of those who have voted "yes" in the poll will change their mind when the game is released, and people see how "evil" (your word) the system we are using is compared to previous systems.

Fair enough. From having seen how early on other titles have been receiving either good or bad press based on their choice of copy protection/DRM, I always just figured that it wasn't something that was considered that secret. I'm sure though that you do have good reasons for not announcing it, so I can easily accept that. Oh, and at least it's good news that it's not TAGES

[Tom14]

What's Miles doing online at this time... Get back to work!

[DJdeMarco]

I am very hesitant to buy a game when I do not know what other rubbish is going to be put on my PC at the same time. Unless I know exactly what is going on my PC and exactly what it does, I won't install it.

If the activation process is done completely online with no other software whatsoever installed on my PC then I would have no problem with it.

Until I know how this DRM works, I am undecided as to whether I will buy it or not.

[JonPaulWild]

Our system does not limit the amount of times you can install the software though, as if you uninstall the game, you can install it as many times as you like.

The license that you have to agree to to install the game with as many of our releases that I can remember previously only allowed one install on one computer at any one time.

If anything, our new system improves on that. And with the same licensing agreement mentioned above, it already prohibits the user from renting or selling on the license that you have purchased to be able to play the game - so the second hand market was not a consideration at all for us, as no one should be selling any of our previous titles that had said license agreed to.

So if I buy Fm 2009 and don't play it much and then want to sell it for £10, you consider that wrong?

We can sell cars second hand, televisions, desks, chairs, houses...What makes software so special?

If someone legally buys something and for whatever reason wants to sell that original copy to someone else then good for them - there's nothing morally wrong with it.

I have no problem with people selling their console or PC games second hand on ebay or to friends.

[kiwityke]

Why should you? Who gave you this divine right to use someone elses work as you please without their say? until they **** on the berne convention you can like it or lump it - how the copyright holder wants the work used (so long as in legal ways) is how it has to be used by the person who buys the license, and people without a license have no right to use it at all.

I am afraid its this kind of attitude that ****es people off and pushes them towards piracy. I pay my money for a product, I don't see what gives them the right to tell me what to do with it, or restrict my use of the product. If your going to get all precious about what people do with YOUR WORK don't bloody release it into the public...

[neilb242]

May I just ask, why 5 times? Why not 3, or 1, or 10?

As someone who freely admits to know nothing about DRM and so on, all I want is to be able to buy a game I want, take it home and play it. Today is the first I've seen about this relating to FM. I'd seen all the news about Spore, and thought I'm so glad I didn't want that game, as there is no way I'd have bought it with that security system on it.

With this system, it may only take five minutes to register, it may not cost extra but I don't particularly want to be having to register to play what I just bought. I was certain to buy FM09, and if I'm honest, prob still will, as I don't think I've ever installed a cM/FM game more than three times before, but that certain purchase on release day has gone to a think about it for a few days first. I had no problem putting the disc in everytime I wanted to play FM08.

when we register, what is involved? Do we hand over personal info, or just a serial number on the box or somesuch?

[TheOriginalJez]

So if I buy Fm 2009 and don't play it much and then want to sell it for £10, you consider that wrong?

We can sell cars second hand, televisions, desks, chairs, houses...What makes software so special?

If someone legally buys something and for whatever reason wants to sell that original copy to someone else then good for them - there's nothing morally wrong with it.

I have no problem with people selling their console or PC games second hand on ebay or to friends.

Copyright. To take it to the right level - if you're awarded (not given by contract design) the design for a television you can make that television. You can't sell the design on to someone else. The items you mentioned aren't covered by copyright, the designs for them, and computer games, are.

I am afraid its this kind of attitude that ****es people off and pushes them towards piracy. I pay my money for a product, I don't see what gives them the right to tell me what to do with it, or restrict my use of the product. If your going to get all precious about what people do with YOUR WORK don't bloody release it into the public...

Again, copyright. And it's that attitude that causes companies to introduce DRM and the like you gotta see it from both sides.

[TheOriginalJez]

May I just ask, why 5 times? Why not 3, or 1, or 10?

As someone who freely admits to know nothing about DRM and so on, all I want is to be able to buy a game I want, take it home and play it. Today is the first I've seen about this relating to FM. I'd seen all the news about Spore, and thought I'm so glad I didn't want that game, as there is no way I'd have bought it with that security system on it.

With this system, it may only take five minutes to register, it may not cost extra but I don't particularly want to be having to register to play what I just bought. I was certain to buy FM09, and if I'm honest, prob still will, as I don't think I've ever installed a cM/FM game more than three times before, but that certain purchase on release day has gone to a think about it for a few days first. I had no problem putting the disc in everytime I wanted to play FM08.

when we register, what is involved? Do we hand over personal info, or just a serial number on the box or somesuch?

It's been explained why it's not 1 (so people who like to play it on their laptop and their desktop for example, can and so if something does go wrong and you can't uninstall first you don't immediately have to call up tech support to get it sorted). Why not 10? I'll assume that's because it's way too open to abuse... why not 3? No idea

I believe you'll just hand over a number that the install generates and finish it with a number given back.

[Hamselv]

when we register, what is involved? Do we hand over personal info, or just a serial number on the box or somesuch?

I believe you'll just hand over a number that the install generates and finish it with a number given back.

That wouldn't allow SI to tell the difference between 1 guy installing the game on his 5 computers, and 5 guys installing the game each on their own computers - SI claims to be able to do that.

We won't learn more about the DRM used until the game is released, so it's anybody's guess exactly what information is gathered.

[sean_lufc]

Will I be able to get the authentication code online when I want to install the game off different computers?

I have a home laptop and a home desktop. Now it's only the laptop that has internet connection and my Deskptop is just used for gaming.