Tactical Advice - Help creating a style of pressing.

[OhhScottySinclair]

I am currently trying to play a 4-1-4-1 in where the team presses to try and win the ball in the opponents half and when the opposition enter our own half our players sit deep, keep our shape and allow the opposition to keep the ball whilst hassling them out wide where the wingers attempt to close down hard and attempt to win the ball, my question is has anyone successfully emulated this where the team will aggressively chase the ball in the oppositions half and if the press is bypassed retreat into our own half and not press until the ball has been won.

 

Here are the OI's I'm using:

 

I have my striker and 2 wide men on close down much more with my 2 CMs on close down more.

I have selected sit deeper to encourage the team to go into its shell and frustrate the opponent whilst using offside trap to encourage them to sit close to the half way line when the ball is in the opposition half. I also use prevent GK short distribution, slightly narrow team shape and stick to positions. I usually play on fluid/flexible with a control/standard mentality.

Can anyone recommend any changes to make the team sit in its shell more and try to frustrate the opponent without players being pulled out of position in their own half. I know this may not be fully achievable on FM but can anyone spot any clear mistakes that I have made, cheers.

[Icy]

The tactical genius can correct me, but imho sit deeper is totally against offside trap and pressing at least on how the match engine was designed, the same about wanting to press but now wanting your players to be pulled form their position. 

[Tiger666]

Pressing doesn't really work in FM.

[ZoDiAC_]

Set closing down to high, and you'll probably want to set it for every player bar the goalie in opposition instructions. 

I know I also set my forwards / wingers to mark specific players too, as I want them to close down effectively, though this may or may not be relevant depending on your formation and fluidity 

[summatsupeer]

@OhhScottySinclair You've told your team to always press every opponent player except ST's, why would they suddenly stop following that instruction and retreat?

Your team mentality will affect where your defensive block tries to stay and how high they will press so its hard to say if you should push higher/lower etc.  Control + Drop Deeper is different to Counter for example. 

You've done what I would do, using PI's on the players expect to press.  Just no idea why you've done that with OI's and expect players to sit and contain?

[OhhScottySinclair]

12 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

@OhhScottySinclair You've told your team to always press every opponent player except ST's, why would they suddenly stop following that instruction and retreat?

Your team mentality will affect where your defensive block tries to stay and how high they will press so its hard to say if you should push higher/lower etc.  Control + Drop Deeper is different to Counter for example. 

You've done what I would do, using PI's on the players expect to press.  Just no idea why you've done that with OI's and expect players to sit and contain?

Not the CM's, they will be the players that will usually have the ball from deep areas in my half and where I want my players to keep their shape until the ball is out wide or back to their more defensive players and have a player press. It's similar to what Diego Simeone does at Atletico or past Jose Mourinho teams, press high up and if the press is bypassed retreat, sit deep, don't press much and force opposition out wide until the ball is won. I put on slightly deeper to try and create a bit of space between the defensive line and forward players whilst keeping it on fluid so they do it as a unit and offside trap to encourage pressing high up the field and add a bit of security when that's taking place.

[AFCBeer]

Firstly I don’t think 4-1-4-1 is a great formation for pressing aggressively from the front. You simply don’t have enough players with access to the ball. It is useful though for keeping a nice compact defensive shape which is 50% of what you are trying to achieve. 

To get anything close to your objective within the limitations of FM will require trial and error. Personally, I’d go on a Counter mentality with a deeper d-line. That should get enough men behind the ball in your own half to frustrate the AI. 

To get the initial high press, my theory would be a highly structured team shape. This should increase the mentality of your ML, MR and ST. I’d then give them PI’s to tight mark and close down much more. The TI to prevent GK distribution might be useful too. 

Im still sceptical how effective this would be. I don’t think FM has the complex presssing options yet in its match engine. 

[Ji-Sung Park]

I started a game with RBL with the intention of making a new replication thread, this time with Hasenhüttl, but I haven't gotten around to finishing it and likely won't ever. I can still weigh in here though, because we try to achieve something similar.

One guy in this thread says "pressing doesn't really work in FM", this is true and not true at the same time. Variable press like the Germans use is impossible to achieve in FM, but you can still find a way that's within reason and perfectly effective and cool to watch at the same time. In your case you use a 4-1-4-1 which is in some ways very different from my flat 4-4-2. Different because at Leipzig a major part of their play is the two strikers constantly harassing the opposition defense with relentless pressing. In your case that would be one striker, so this is the major difference really, in terms of pressing.

After numerous combos with roles, d-line, PI's and TI's I landed on something that worked really, really well for that team and we won basically everything for 2 seasons straight. The key for me was to have a ball winning midfielder in the CM strata. In this years edition they don't drift all over the place while trying to close down, and I could see that Diego Demme was picking the tackles very nicely with a BWM(d) setting. Then I arranged a very simple OI scheme that pointed to what we are trying to achieve:

In addition to this I had a slightly higher d-line and close down more TI. Keep in mind that a team like RBL is packed with hard working players with high aggression, it makes it a lot easier I would imagine.

The most telling image is the "gained possession" heatmap:

Here we are playing from left to right of course, as you can see the area where we won the ball the most were in the oppo half.

My advice would be to more Cleonesque, don't over complicate things.

 

[sherifdinn_]

Someone said you can't press in FM, well actually you can't but it won't directly replicate the real life. So what you have to do is just raise your defensive line higher, and use the "close down much more" or "more" depending on the risk you're willing to take.

The style is very risky and if you don't have the right players the system can go horribly wrong, as the high defensive line will encourage opposition to play balls over the top, and if you're unlucky enough, a speedy forward can add salt to your wound. So in general you can actually replicate it but you probably won't see that aggressive wolf pack-like pressing, but more of the players focussing on covering passing lanes while closing down at the same time a man each (at least that's how my team does it). 

I use a 4-2-3-1 as it is recommend and it will have more players higher up the pitch in order to increase the likely-hood of immediate ball turnover from the opposition. Also add the offside trap to reduce the events of an opposition striker going through on goal, accompanied with quick centre back as insurance.

This is basically my guide not general as I also learn from someone else.

[Gegenklaus]

On 22/11/2017 at 07:55, Ji-Sung Park said:

I started a game with RBL with the intention of making a new replication thread, this time with Hasenhüttl, but I haven't gotten around to finishing it and likely won't ever. I can still weigh in here though, because we try to achieve something similar.

One guy in this thread says "pressing doesn't really work in FM", this is true and not true at the same time. Variable press like the Germans use is impossible to achieve in FM, but you can still find a way that's within reason and perfectly effective and cool to watch at the same time. In your case you use a 4-1-4-1 which is in some ways very different from my flat 4-4-2. Different because at Leipzig a major part of their play is the two strikers constantly harassing the opposition defense with relentless pressing. In your case that would be one striker, so this is the major difference really, in terms of pressing.

After numerous combos with roles, d-line, PI's and TI's I landed on something that worked really, really well for that team and we won basically everything for 2 seasons straight. The key for me was to have a ball winning midfielder in the CM strata. In this years edition they don't drift all over the place while trying to close down, and I could see that Diego Demme was picking the tackles very nicely with a BWM(d) setting. Then I arranged a very simple OI scheme that pointed to what we are trying to achieve:

In addition to this I had a slightly higher d-line and close down more TI. Keep in mind that a team like RBL is packed with hard working players with high aggression, it makes it a lot easier I would imagine.

The most telling image is the "gained possession" heatmap:

Here we are playing from left to right of course, as you can see the area where we won the ball the most were in the oppo half.

My advice would be to more Cleonesque, don't over complicate things.

 

What mentality was this on? Also, do you know if a higher individual mentality means more aggressive pressing or is it solely linked with the player/TI-instruction? Which means that if your players has the right attributes (work rate, agression, teamwork and so on) their aggressive would be the same on a attacking mentality and on standard mentality with much more closing down TI? 

And when Can I expect that replication thread?

[Ji-Sung Park]

23 hours ago, Gegenklaus said:

What mentality was this on? Also, do you know if a higher individual mentality means more aggressive pressing or is it solely linked with the player/TI-instruction? Which means that if your players has the right attributes (work rate, agression, teamwork and so on) their aggressive would be the same on a attacking mentality and on standard mentality with much more closing down TI? 

And when Can I expect that replication thread?

Greetings Klaus,

I have been busy ever since I completed the save, and by completing I mean I played a full 2 seasons and had plans to write something up, but now it's not going to happen. It's been too long since that save etc.

As for your questions:

This was standard mentality with slightly higher D-line (not very high). To make a good 4-4-2 it is vital that the 2-man strike team's roles are compatible. In the first season I played with a DF(d) and a DF(S), which made the DF(s) the main scorer (Werner). The following season I tried a DLF(s)/AF combo, to get Poulsen to act as a target man without the role of a TM. Both combos worked great and Werner scored 80 goals in two seasons. 

The difference between 'standard' and 'control' is probably not that great, but from 'standard' to 'attacking' you'll see clear changes in how they press. The tackles will be more rash though, so there are things to consider.

Anyways, as with all things FM tactics, you need the right type of player to play the right type of football. Thankfully.

[kandersson]

17 minuti fa, Ji-Sung Park ha scritto:

Greetings Klaus,

I have been busy ever since I completed the save, and by completing I mean I played a full 2 seasons and had plans to write something up, but now it's not going to happen. It's been too long since that save etc.

As for your questions:

This was standard mentality with slightly higher D-line (not very high). To make a good 4-4-2 it is vital that the 2-man strike team's roles are compatible. In the first season I played with a DF(d) and a DF(S), which made the DF(s) the main scorer (Werner). The following season I tried a DLF(s)/AF combo, to get Poulsen to act as a target man without the role of a TM. Both combos worked great and Werner scored 80 goals in two seasons. 

The difference between 'standard' and 'control' is probably not that great, but from 'standard' to 'attacking' you'll see clear changes in how they press. The tackles will be more rash though, so there are things to consider.

Anyways, as with all things FM tactics, you need the right type of player to play the right type of football. Thankfully.

I enjoyed your Napoli/Sarri thread last year, I'm sure your interpretation of Leipzig would have been another great read. Too bad!

[Ji-Sung Park]

10 minutes ago, kandersson said:

I enjoyed your Napoli/Sarri thread last year, I'm sure your interpretation of Leipzig would have been another great read. Too bad!

Maybe we should do a FM18 version of Sarri....

[Lobaeux4]

14 minutes ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

Maybe we should do a FM18 version of Sarri....

Yes!  I’m working on a Sarri-type tactic, would love to see or attempt a FM18 write up. 

[Gegenklaus]

19 minutes ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

Maybe we should do a FM18 version of Sarri....

 

50 minutes ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

Greetings Klaus,

I have been busy ever since I completed the save, and by completing I mean I played a full 2 seasons and had plans to write something up, but now it's not going to happen. It's been too long since that save etc.

As for your questions:

This was standard mentality with slightly higher D-line (not very high). To make a good 4-4-2 it is vital that the 2-man strike team's roles are compatible. In the first season I played with a DF(d) and a DF(S), which made the DF(s) the main scorer (Werner). The following season I tried a DLF(s)/AF combo, to get Poulsen to act as a target man without the role of a TM. Both combos worked great and Werner scored 80 goals in two seasons. 

The difference between 'standard' and 'control' is probably not that great, but from 'standard' to 'attacking' you'll see clear changes in how they press. The tackles will be more rash though, so there are things to consider.

Anyways, as with all things FM tactics, you need the right type of player to play the right type of football. Thankfully.

Great, Thanks for your reply. 

Im soon done with the first season of my Tuchel-save, so I will try to experiment a lot more here at the end of the season.

And Sarri in FM18 would be cool. Let Hamsik loose in the mezzala role.