Why aren't tactic articles helpful?

[FootballManager89]

Let me just say I appreciate the work cleon and others do in this department. Everytime I read something they wrote I always find it enjoyable and insightful. However at the end of the day how do I apply this knowledge into a good tactic is the question I have. To me it seems you can watch all the videos, read all the blogs and articles but its putting it all together and making something great that is very difficult regardless of how easy they make it all seem. Is there a link of them just going over there whole process of how to make a great tactic? They have hundreds of blog posts but is there one that sort of combines everything to help you make something decent? I've really spent some time reading the material on this site and youtube videos and other sites and I've conceded that if I want any enjoyment from FM I'm going to have to download a tactic and that takes half the fun out of the game. Winning with someones supertactic will never be as enjoyable as that ONE time i won the premier league with crystal palace on the last day needing i think chelsea to lose and needing a win and having it all happen all with my own tactic. I don't think I'll ever experience that again, because the tactical creation process is beyond complex. And when experts on here explain something that they say is so simple it just leaves me more confused and frustrated. If Fm is so easy to make a good tactic in, why can't the process of doing so be explained in a way that everyone can understand and easily apply? 

[Cleon]

Quote

Let me just say I appreciate the work cleon and others do in this department. Everytime I read something they wrote I always find it enjoyable and insightful. However at the end of the day how do I apply this knowledge into a good tactic is the question I have. To me it seems you can watch all the videos, read all the blogs and articles but its putting it all together and making something great that is very difficult regardless of how easy they make it all seem. Is there a link of them just going over there whole process of how to make a great tactic? They have hundreds of blog posts but is there one that sort of combines everything to help you make something decent?

If you've read my stuff then you'll have seen the posts explaining what you're asking for, which is basically every single full tactical piece I did.

At the end of the day though, it's still down to you to translate it and take what you learn from the article and apply it to your game. It's not on me or others to make it work, its all on you.

If something that is explained in simple terms and you still struggle to understand it, there is nothing we can do. You have to find a way somehow to programme your brain so the info can be uses. No-one can teach you that, it's something you have to do.

[FootballManager89]

Just now, Cleon said:

If you've read my stuff then you'll have seen the posts explaining what you're asking for, which is basically every single full tactical piece I did.

At the end of the day though, it's still down to you to translate it and take what you learn from the article and apply it to your game. It's not on me or others to make it work, its all on you.

If something that is explained in simple terms and you still struggle to understand it, there is nothing we can do. You have to find a way somehow to programme your brain so the info can be uses. No-one can teach you that, it's something you have to do.

Can you sum up your overall tactical strategy in a paragraph or less? I feel like you would say its to just create space, but how is that helpful? Knowing what I want to do and doing it is extremely difficult as I think you also wrote. 

[Cleon]

Just now, FootballManager89 said:

Can you sum up your overall tactical strategy in a paragraph or less? I feel like you would say its to just create space, but how is that helpful? Knowing what I want to do and doing it is extremely difficult as I think you also wrote. 

If you think things can be summed up in a paragraph or less about an entire tactical strategy, I'll have some of what you've been smoking.

[phnompenhandy]

Dear me, this instant-gratification plug-n-play generation want to be spoon-fed, don't they?! In FM as in life, time and patience are required for long-term benefits.

 

I read and applied the advice Cleon gave in his 4-2-3-1 thread, although I didn't t follow it slavishly as I figured my starting squad had particular weaknesses that required some adaptation. It took over half a season of tweaking to get the tactic satisfactory and I finished mid-table. In the second season I knew what I was doing and won the league. Five seasons in I've gained 3 promotions but now I'm at a level where the opposition squads are significantly stronger and my old tactic is hitting its limitations (I might add that's not because of Cleon; I follow an Academy Intake strategy whereby I nurture my academy kids and cannot buy anyone to replace players who leave).

After sustaining a few losses I started looking closely at my newly-appointed analyst's reports and figured out that when the next opponent's red zones are clustered in the middle, I should play narrower and vice versa. Similarly when the opponent scores most of its goals via crosses I need to deal with their wingers. This has come through trial and error, working out solutions as you go along.  As I say, like life itself. 

[looping]

At the end of the day, the question is which button you have to press and that is not explained anywhere. Content creators don't explain that, essentially because they can't, there are too many situations where specific buttons must be pressed and most of the times they are sudden decisions based on experience and talent. What they do is to explain principles. It's up to you to use them in the game.

Could this be explained better? Yes, to some extent. But too much time and effort is needed (by them) and the one who is going to benefit is you. You (and probably others including me) would need some kind of teacher sitting besides you and telling how to specifically play the game in various situations. Somewhat going to Fm school. Unless you pay for it (and I'm not sure) you won't get it anywhere.

What to do next, then? You can try on your own and who knows, some day you'll learn. Or not. You can forget about tactics too, just keep it simple, you don't need a Deep knowledge about tactics to succeed in FM, but this is a different kettle of fish.

 

[ciaraldi]

I agree with the OP

 

The "experts" on tactics seem to perform their guides with big teams, im an average FM player and I can win the lot with any half decent side, I got bored of that years ago. The Match Engine is clearly flawed, perfect example being I made no transfers, was winning every game at home and had a poor away record. I finally sorted my away recorded and started the season again in a new game. The new game I couldnt pick points up home or away with exactly the same squad and tactics, nothing had changed.

 

I get the feeling the experts are fan boys who wont have nothing said again FM. The game has got worse with every pointless update and stupid feature added, the latest being the pointless data analysts. 

The tactical creator is flawed, the descriptions are misleading and nobody knows what the truth is. Some say mentality is a risk factor yet the creator doesnt say that and even recommends passing style and tempo in its description. Then you look at the expolits, its either 3 cbs, 3 strikers, strikerless there are multiple expolits each year which wouldnt work in the real game showing the match engine is flawed but I imagine this post will get a lot of hate haha.

[phnompenhandy]

^ there are no words 

[Rashidi]

10 minutes ago, ciaraldi said:

I agree with the OP

 

The "experts" on tactics seem to perform their guides with big teams, im an average FM player and I can win the lot with any half decent side, I got bored of that years ago. The Match Engine is clearly flawed, perfect example being I made no transfers, was winning every game at home and had a poor away record. I finally sorted my away recorded and started the season again in a new game. The new game I couldnt pick points up home or away with exactly the same squad and tactics, nothing had changed.

 

I get the feeling the experts are fan boys who wont have nothing said again FM. The game has got worse with every pointless update and stupid feature added, the latest being the pointless data analysts. 

The tactical creator is flawed, the descriptions are misleading and nobody knows what the truth is. Some say mentality is a risk factor yet the creator doesnt say that and even recommends passing style and tempo in its description. Then you look at the expolits, its either 3 cbs, 3 strikers, strikerless there are multiple expolits each year which wouldnt work in the real game showing the match engine is flawed but I imagine this post will get a lot of hate haha.

Erm, ok, so Cleon uses some lower league sides, does his occasional Sheffield save, I am doing LLM saves every season, and quite a few others I know do precisely that. So if you think that we are fanboys, you obviously haven't heard our podcast. So before I go debunking everything you've said, I will stop right there.

[ciaraldi]

Excellent response there lol

 

Perfect example go and read the counter mentality description and look at the sliders.

 

"It relies on getting the ball forward quickly enough to expose wingers and full backs"

 

Default tempo is lower than Standards default tempo. Standard is a 50 50 approach which carefully balances attack and defense. Standards tempo should not be quicker than counter, tempo is how you move the ball, if I win the ball in a counter attacking tactic I want the ball moved quickly but according to the sliders they will move the ball slower than a balanced approach.

 

So the description or sliders are misleading and Id love an explanation on this point.

 

[Rashidi]

1 minute ago, ciaraldi said:

Excellent response there lol

 

Perfect example go and read the counter mentality description and look at the sliders.

 

"It relies on getting the ball forward quickly enough to expose wingers and full backs"

 

Default tempo is lower than Standards default tempo. Standard is a 50 50 approach which carefully balances attack and defense. Standards tempo should not be quicker than counter, tempo is how you move the ball, if I win the ball in a counter attacking tactic I want the ball moved quickly but according to the sliders they will move the ball slower than a balanced approach.

 

So the description or sliders are misleading and Id love an explanation on this point.

 

We agree and have agreed that the descriptions in the game are far from perfect. The point the OP seems to make which seems to have gone over your head is that he wants a one paragraph answer to playing the game well. And you want to derail this thread off to a another rant about stuff that's already been dealt with, you wanna rant go to GD. Don't bring it here. Thread closed