INFLATION FOR PLAYERS

[tilton]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but I don't feel that football inflation player prices don't go up through the life of a game.

I currently have three world class players in 2026 and all of them are valued at less than £60m and as an experiment I listed them and eventually only got bids of £30m when I lowered it that far.

Surely the game should calculate this growth, especially in a climate where Coutinho are now the two most expensive footballers in World Football and never won Ballon D'or

[forameuss]

Because there's no inflation framework built into the game.  To do a fairly simple one would probably get criticised for being too basic, and modelling a proper implementation of inflation would probably be far more time-consuming than it's worth for a game like this.

Transfer values are higher in this game than they've been in previous ones.  They can also rise considerably if the league does too - I've gone from getting nothing for players in Gibraltar to a peak of £78m for a world-class player.  

Plus the value you see on the screen is largely irrelevant.

[phnompenhandy]

How is SI expected to know future economic models?

[forameuss]

34 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

How is SI expected to know future economic models?

In before the "but Brexit" posts begin

[Seb Wassell]

Inflation is not in the game for various reasons.

[tilton]

They could still use a basic inflation formula year on year.. perhaps assume that values go up 5% year on year.  

[Guest]

That’s the type of simplistic approach that forameuss was referring to as being a method that would be rightly criticised.

Any dynamic global finance system needs to be much more than +5% per annum on player values.

[tilton]

Just a guide figure.

I dare say deloitte can provide a forecast model considering the financial analysis the do for football these days.  I dare say a basic plot over the last 25 years would show a trend or two.

[Weston]

I am confused by how player values are reached in general. I'm currently #1 in Serie A with several star players with 2-4 years left on their contracts, but their values all stagnated around the 30 million range, while players in Germany, for example, that are just as good if not even slightly less good, have 50-60 million values. If I have a world class player wanted by 10 clubs why are the offers in the 20 million range while randos go for 90 million in other nations?

[Seb Wassell]

I think one of the main issues is not necessarily creating a reliable model, but more that in-game prices need to be relatable to reality for them to actually have meaning, whether the in-game year is 2018 or 2034. Adding inflation would disorientate and even handicap the User when it comes to judging prices/wages/etc.

[Seb Wassell]

1 minute ago, Weston said:

I am confused by how player values are reached in general. I'm currently #1 in Serie A with several star players with 2-4 years left on their contracts, but their values all stagnated around the 30 million range, while players in Germany, for example, that are just as good if not even slightly less good, have 50-60 million values. If I have a world class player wanted by 10 clubs why are the offers in the 20 million range while randos go for 90 million in other nations?

The largest factor is reputation. Each nation has a value to reputation guideline set by the research team, which can of course change. Germany will have higher values set for the same reputation when compared to Italy.

[tilton]

Still think it's worth a stab.  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

I think one of the main issues is not necessarily creating a reliable model, but more that in-game prices need to be relatable to reality for them to actually have meaning, whether the in-game year is 2018 or 2034. Adding inflation would disorientate and even handicap the User when it comes to judging prices/wages/etc.

The disassociation issue could be handle through fluff media item that compare the values of similar players from previous decades in that game world, that’s the easy part though.

The main issue I see with considering a dynamic finance module is in defining what the key drivers are behind the changes in income & expenditure that creates inflation/recession & once that’s thought out there’s the not so small task of sanity checks to ensure there is a logical balance across the game world 30+ years on while also having code that is written in a way that does not make be system easily predictable to the point that it adds no value to the game or gives the user a chance to identify trends that can be used to make large profits due to knowledge gained in previous saves.

[Weston]

27 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

The largest factor is reputation. Each nation has a value to reputation guideline set by the research team, which can of course change. Germany will have higher values set for the same reputation when compared to Italy.

But Serie A was the 2nd highest rated league in the world the previous season and is #3 this season. Seems unreasonable to have such a massive disparity in fees compared to England, Germany, Spain, and France, no? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

[Seb Wassell]

7 minutes ago, Barside said:

The disassociation issue could be handle through fluff media item that compare the values of similar players from previous decades in that game world, that’s the easy part though.

I'm not sure that would handle the task adequately, you may underestimate the strength of perception and association.

8 minutes ago, Barside said:

The main issue I see with considering a dynamic finance module is in defining what the key drivers are behind the changes in income & expenditure that creates inflation/recession & once that’s thought out there’s the not so small task of sanity checks to ensure there is a logical balance across the game world 30+ years on while also having code that is written in a way that does not make be system easily predictable to the point that it adds no value to the game or gives the user a chance to identify trends that can be used to make large profits due to knowledge gained in previous saves.

Agreed. Making a simple system would be easy enough, but likely add little and potentially become exploitable. Expanding this to a fully fledged market simulation seems unnecessary considering the relatively small benefits it may bring for the relatively large resources it would require. You mention recession, I think introducing that concept at all would be wholly damaging to the experience

[Seb Wassell]

3 minutes ago, Weston said:

But Serie A was the 2nd highest rated league in the world the previous season and is #3 this season. Seems unreasonable to have such a massive disparity in fees compared to England, Germany, Spain, and France, no? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Would be worth raising in our DB & Research section if you believe there is an issue. Disclaimer - without seeing your save my answer is an educated guess and may be not be the cause of what you are seeing.

[Guest]

There’s a feature idea somewhere at the back of my mind to change how the game uses the database wage & transfer tables as the top rated leagues rise & fall within their very tight group.

I’ve also got an embryonic idea on how the elite clubs could use their wealth as they try to maintain their dominance which could create transfer & wage inflation as a byproduct as they put more cash into the global pot of money in the game. 

Will have to give them some more thought.

[Seb Wassell]

3 minutes ago, Barside said:

There’s a feature idea somewhere at the back of my mind to change how the game uses the database wage & transfer tables as the top rated leagues rise & fall within their very tight group.

I’ve also got an embryonic idea on how the elite clubs could use their wealth as they try to maintain their dominance which could create transfer & wage inflation as a byproduct as they put more cash into the global pot of money in the game. 

Will have to give them some more thought.

[Weston]

On 1/10/2018 at 11:41, Seb Wassell said:

The largest factor is reputation. Each nation has a value to reputation guideline set by the research team, which can of course change. Germany will have higher values set for the same reputation when compared to Italy.

Just did an experiment. Leandro Paredes, solid player getting some caps for his national team in the Confederation Cup, leaves his club on a free. Because his value is reset at zero, we know transfer fees won't be factored into generating his new value once he is signed. Below are the results when the AI picks him up versus if I do:

His value is 52 million when signed by Bundesliga (#4 reputation league) midtable side Koln (3.5* reputation).

His value is 36 million when signed by Serie A (#3 reputation league) champions Milan (4.5* reputation).

How on earth does that make any sense?

[forameuss]

Value is a function of contract length and salary amongst other things.  Is he on an identical contract at both clubs?  

[Wyer]

Goes the other way too, I just had a bid turned down for a player. 

The player was valued at 19.5 mil, my bid was 215m....go figure.

[Weston]

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

Value is a function of contract length and salary amongst other things.  Is he on an identical contract at both clubs?  

Not identical but far too close for a 16 million difference in valuation especially considering the other factors pointing in the other direction. I made a fresh thread for this here.