Pilgrimage 343 Knap FM 18

[knap]

FM 18.3.3

Tested with MU in FMT no OIs

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343MUP108ALLCUPS.fmf

 

 

Tested with Lpool in FMT no OIs (Top sub top tactic)

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP104.fmf

 

 

 

Tested with Arsenal in FMT No OIs.

FM 18.2.1

 

¬FM18.2.1KnapPILGRIMAGE343P105.fmf

PILGRIMAGE CF ALL CUPS

¬FM18.2.1KnapPILGRIMACECF343P102ALLCUPS.fmf

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by knap

[Chief Scout]

Knap, very nice. So the main difference is fluid shape (in comparison with Goodbye/ BM - very fluid and Argus - structured)

Your opinion - is the tactic for top, sub top or underdog teams?

[knap]

Is there a correlation between shape and top sub or under dog?  May be good for all as between GOODBYE and WOF.

[knap]

PILGRIMAGE CF

¬FM18.2.1KnapPILGRIMACECF343P102ALLCUPS.fmf

 

[Flohrinho]

1 hour ago, knap said:

Is there a correlation between shape and top sub or under dog?  May be good for all as between GOODBYE and WOF.

I see it mainly as a "risk tacking" manipulator. With Fluid there will be more players participating in attacking transition phases which might make your team more prone getting hit while trying to counter yourself. Means if you have strong defenders you might get away with leaving them on their own defending, if you don't happen to have three CBs you are probably better off keeping the team in structured shape and let your three strikers make the major contribution to any attacking transition, while the deeper positions stay back a bit more.

I'll probably take this tactic in my youth development save and employ it against much weaker teams while I will stick with the structured approach against the stronger ones. Gonna report back how my second season went, once I've finished it.

[macca72]

I’ll give it a go Knap. Any chance of PI’s - can’t download.

ive got most of your other tactics, so if they’re the same then I can copy.

cheers

[knap]

Only tweaking shape TIs maybe the BBM  and WBs 

[knap]

BBM and WB

[knap]

 

1 hour ago, Flohrinho said:

'll probably take this tactic in my youth development save and employ it against much weaker teams while I will stick with the structured approach against the stronger ones. Gonna report back how my second season went, once I've finished it

Can you get better results by shape shifting when playing with weaker teams, rather than mentality changes.

Edited January 13, 2018 by knap

[Kappa007]

quick question knap. have you got a tactic that could counter all these 523/343 formations that there is about on forums?? if not would be cool if you could try to make one

[Chief Scout]

BM 433 or Volante 442 are very good as well.

[knap]

I test against any on line tactic. Against 3 fwds you really need 3 CBs.

[Flohrinho]

1 hour ago, knap said:

 

Can you get better results by shape shifting when playing with weaker teams, rather than mentality changes.

Well here is how I see it in a very simplified way. Mentality determines basically the urgency and risk you take by passing the ball forward as well as your aggressiveness in terms of closing down. From contain as the most risk averse and slow approach to build up to overload as the just hammer the ball forward and full field press approach. Now structure determines how many players will take part in this behavior.

Looking at your tactic I would say the approach is like this. Attack structured will primarily launch the ball forward to your three strikers and hope they can create something with it while the support roles in your team will also try to get involved in attack but much less aggressive than your three forwards. The fluid approach on the other hand will make sure that your two midfielders and WBs try to get involved in the attacking play with almost as much urgency as your 3 strikers, thus offering more options going forward but also leaving your 3 CBs more exposed.

Now the tricky part is when to chose which approach actually. I feel that in FM 18 the only way to break super defensive sides is to overrun them. So against a 4-1-4-1 that sits super deep I would probably chose your fluid tactic while against a team that is in the big 6 and has the quality of players to hurt my with fast attacks and has between 2 or 3 dedicated attacking players on the I would probably go with the structured approach to be less exposed at the back.

In my Dortmund save where I micro manage a lot I usually chose the following approach with my 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-2-1. Against weaker teams that play defensive I usually go with a counter mentality and a fluid, or even very fluid shape. This way I can commit a lot of players forward, keep hold of the ball, so not to lose it in any dangerous situation and run into a counter an overwhelm my opponents. Against teams on par with me that play a bit more open I go with a more attacking approach mentality but a structured approach. For playing with "regular" tactics I feel this approach has suited me fairly well so far.

So to answer your actual question I would say no. It always depends who you are facing. Is the team you are facing super defensive? Do they press you like mad? Do they have a more balanced approach? See a lot of people struggle with tactics because they don't get this vital concept, teams don't always play the same against you no matter if you are the underdog or a top team. Of course against a top team the opposition will start defensive almost every game but even as the underdog if you have had an amazing winning streak and teams are starting to respect/fear you more their approach will change.

[Smiza]

According to the huge tactic test (https://forum.mrltactics.com/tactics), this tactic might be very good with a strong team. I took over BVB in 2022 and might try using it.

[knap]

Top sub top and WOF has highest goals at 559.

There is also a Lpool version of PILGRIMAGE that I have still to post.

[Flohrinho]

On 4/27/2018 at 10:06, knap said:

Top sub top and WOF has highest goals at 559.

There is also a Lpool version of PILGRIMAGE that I have still to post.

Love the WOF against those pesky super defensive 4-1-4-1 I encounter in almost every game after a while. If I don't play against those formations I use the PILGRIMAGE and it's a great combination for my Dortmund side.

[Fribbe]

This had the best rating for a sub-top team on Mr L Tactis testing site so I decided to try it with Preston North End. Going pretty well so far

[knap]

I would take 20 wins in 20 games

[Fribbe]

49 minutes ago, knap said:

I would take 20 wins in 20 games

Probably jinxed it by posting that image. Lost the next game against Burton in 22nd with a rotated team. Very good tactic though

[monsalai]

Hi Knap! How do you handle Pre-Match Tactical Briefings?

[knap]

yNot sure they have them in FMT but I leave these things to AM anyway.

Edited April 29, 2018 by knap

[joandrle]

Does  Pilgrimage work with 18.3.3?

Whats tthe best tactic fot top team?

Thanks Knap!!

[8BuggieNights15]

2 hours ago, joandrle said:

Does  Pilgrimage work with 18.3.3?

12 clean sheets in a row as well at one stage

[joandrle]

Justo ahora, 8BuggieNights15 dijo:

12 clean sheets in a row as well at one stage

Thanks mate!!

[knap]

All the tactics should work for a top team. What I look for is a maximum of 3 poor games in the 38 league game. This gives a range of 105pts and above with a tam like Arsenal.

Nothing like a good run of clean sheets.

[Chief Scout]

Knap, your tactic "FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP101.fmf" came 3d best in Mr.L Tactic Testing site. The PILGRIMAGE and WOF are dominating with ARGUS and BM close behind.

Will you be also uploading this tactic and results here?

[knap]

They lost the tactics to be tested, so tactics had to be uploaded again. 

This was tactic but I will have to search for screenshots as now out of order, but was 101 pts with Lpool

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP101.fmf

[knap]

WOF has so far highest pts total overall at 381.

[Chief Scout]

4 minutes ago, knap said:

WOF has so far highest pts total overall at 381.

Yes that is amazing(!), just wrote you about that in WOF thread.

[pinardier8282]

Media prediction 7 !

[jo3er]

so is this the best 343 ?

[pinardier8282]

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by pinardier8282

[knap]

Tactic List from testing

WOF Flexible                     P381

PILGRIMAGE Fluid            P367

ARGUS  Structured          P363

BLUE MATTER                  P356

GOODBYE Very Fluid     P349

MIDSOMER 442 P103   P349

WOF 2323                        P335

BLUE MATTER 352         P335

ASH Highly Structured  P326

VOLANTE BWM             P326

WOF 3412                      P325

WOF 2233                       P311

 

[fmste]

i holidayed both season left everything to assistant manager results were better when i played the games aswell my fave tactic of late thanks knap 

[omrgul]

Hey knap, you are a great tactician. And have proven that year after year in making great tactics.

Please share an insight related to your experience on current year's ME. Since there's an overload of 343 formations this year, and no doubt these are successful. But what exactly is making them successful? Is it the 3 at the back that makes them successful or the 3 Strikers that make them difficult for ME.

Meaning if all of your tactics would have been FLAT 433 instead of the 343 with WBs, would they have been equally impressive? Please guide.

[knap]

343 is top formation this year but for top dogs 433 may work as good as or better. 442 is also a strong formation. In general 3 > 2 > 1.

Last year was 3430 and year before 442 and FM 08 it was a lone striker.

[Pit 83]

Hello KNAP could you tell us about training general and individual about PILGRIMAGE????

[knap]

I use the AM but you can train roles

[Pit 83]

21 hours ago, knap said:

I use the AM but you can train roles

thks a lot man you are the best...

[Chief Scout]

Knap, please post your new best sub top tactic PILGRIMAGE, which achieved 380 pts on Mr. L testing. Thanks and congrats. Amazing.

[knap]

Is it not in OP?

 

[knap]

Not in OP.

No screenshots but this is tactic

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP104.fmf

[knap]

Screenshots

[knap]

Overview of Tactic List from testing                                  TOTAL                       SUB TOP    UNDERDOG

ARGUS FM 18.2.2       P102                                                    P385                          P206        P179  

PILGRIMAGE FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P104                                  P380                            P226       P154

 

WOF FM 18.3.3  P101  Flexible                                              P381                           P213          P168

WOF FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P100 ALL CUPS                                P365                          P196          P169

PILGRIMAGE Fluid  LPOOL P101                                           P367                          P201           P166

PILGRIMAGE FM 18.2 P105                                                   P357                          P218           P139

ARGUS VOL 4 FM18.3.3  Structured  P101 ALL CUPS       P363                          P220           P143

BLUE MATTER    FM 18.3.3 P105                                         P356                           P207           P149

GOODBYE FM 18.3 VOL 7 Very Fluid                                  P349                           P208          P141

GOODBYE 3421                                                                     P324                          P205         P119

MIDSOMER 442 P103 (FLAT TEST)                                      P349                          P199         P150

WOF 2323    FM 18   P104                                                    P335                          P187         P148

BLUE MATTER FM 18.3 VOL 4 P102     352                       P335                           P206         P129

ASH FM 18.3 P104                Highly Structured                P326                            P190         P136

VOLANTE BWM FM 18.3 P101                                           P326                            P191         P135

WOF 3412                                                                            P325                             P198         P127

WOF 2233 P102HS         FM 18.2                                      P311                             P194         P117

BLUE MATTER VOL 4 P100 4123 FM 18.2.1                  P310                             P179         -P131

MMVOLANTEANCHOR            442                                   P302                            P165           P127

[omrgul]

On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 21:04, Flohrinho said:

Well here is how I see it in a very simplified way. Mentality determines basically the urgency and risk you take by passing the ball forward as well as your aggressiveness in terms of closing down. From contain as the most risk averse and slow approach to build up to overload as the just hammer the ball forward and full field press approach. Now structure determines how many players will take part in this behavior.

Looking at your tactic I would say the approach is like this. Attack structured will primarily launch the ball forward to your three strikers and hope they can create something with it while the support roles in your team will also try to get involved in attack but much less aggressive than your three forwards. The fluid approach on the other hand will make sure that your two midfielders and WBs try to get involved in the attacking play with almost as much urgency as your 3 strikers, thus offering more options going forward but also leaving your 3 CBs more exposed.

Now the tricky part is when to chose which approach actually. I feel that in FM 18 the only way to break super defensive sides is to overrun them. So against a 4-1-4-1 that sits super deep I would probably chose your fluid tactic while against a team that is in the big 6 and has the quality of players to hurt my with fast attacks and has between 2 or 3 dedicated attacking players on the I would probably go with the structured approach to be less exposed at the back.

In my Dortmund save where I micro manage a lot I usually chose the following approach with my 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-2-1. Against weaker teams that play defensive I usually go with a counter mentality and a fluid, or even very fluid shape. This way I can commit a lot of players forward, keep hold of the ball, so not to lose it in any dangerous situation and run into a counter an overwhelm my opponents. Against teams on par with me that play a bit more open I go with a more attacking approach mentality but a structured approach. For playing with "regular" tactics I feel this approach has suited me fairly well so far.

So to answer your actual question I would say no. It always depends who you are facing. Is the team you are facing super defensive? Do they press you like mad? Do they have a more balanced approach? See a lot of people struggle with tactics because they don't get this vital concept, teams don't always play the same against you no matter if you are the underdog or a top team. Of course against a top team the opposition will start defensive almost every game but even as the underdog if you have had an amazing winning streak and teams are starting to respect/fear you more their approach will change.

Hi, great insightful post!!!

Hey knap, what would be your opinion if choosing a tactic based on above information can help?

For example, if I pick your best performing tactics;

- 1 with Highly Structured approach for tough oppositions

- 1 with Flexible approach for equally good opponents or Away games

- 1 with Very Fluid approach for ultra defensive teams, or when I need to score?

And then 1 SUS tactic to save legs and lead.

This approach somehow also justifies how your Structured tactic (ARGUS) did so well for Underdog testing, while more Fluid approach (Pilgrimage) topped the Subtop testing table.

Thanks,

[knap]

Highly structured which is ASH has not performed that well in comparison to other Shapes.

Goodbye very fluid has also been below the other shapes but was the best underdog tactic last year when using counter.

TBH the other Shapes have given similar performance, but in general I would agree with your conclusion, apart from when you need to score as WOF 2323 tactic is the top scorer. There is a PILGRIMAGE 2323 out for testing so in theory this should be higher scoring than WOF.

I would also probably change formation for a SUS tactic as well as duties. I sometimes do this when a man sent off

[raaalvas]

19 hours ago, knap said:

Highly structured which is ASH has not performed that well in comparison to other Shapes.

Goodbye very fluid has also been below the other shapes but was the best underdog tactic last year when using counter.

TBH the other Shapes have given similar performance, but in general I would agree with your conclusion, apart from when you need to score as WOF 2323 tactic is the top scorer. There is a PILGRIMAGE 2323 out for testing so in theory this should be higher scoring than WOF.

I would also probably change formation for a SUS tactic as well as duties. I sometimes do this when a man sent off

However, if you look at the SubTop AWAY results Knap, ASH performs very well. So that's pretty much been what i've used away from home and it works well. If i need a goal, or a dont feel the team is performing well, i switch to PILGRIMAGE 2323. 

[knap]

Not looked at that, and good to know that the testing also works in practices. I wonder if ASH would be better on counter if underdog.

[solounamigo]

I'm absolutely smashing the Bundesliga and other competitions with Hoffenheim in the second season.

Two seasons two CL titles - first season won the Bundesliga and the CL, and now I won everything.

You're tactics are doing it again knap, no other combination is that amazing to play!

 

I clearly recommend to try this tactical combination:

 

HOME

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP104.fmf

AWAY

¬FM18.3.3KnapWOF343P101.fmf

WASTE TIME

¬FM18.2.2KnapASH343HSP101SHORTP101SUS.fmf

(training to the assistant - team talks are absolutely important as I already said several times in this forum)

[knap]

Following the discussion is ASH working as a SUS tactic?