knap Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) FM 18.3.3 Tested with MU in FMT no OIs ¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343MUP108ALLCUPS.fmf Tested with Lpool in FMT no OIs (Top sub top tactic) ¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP104.fmf Tested with Arsenal in FMT No OIs. FM 18.2.1 ¬FM18.2.1KnapPILGRIMAGE343P105.fmf PILGRIMAGE CF ALL CUPS ¬FM18.2.1KnapPILGRIMACECF343P102ALLCUPS.fmf Edited May 31, 2018 by knap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Scout Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Knap, very nice. So the main difference is fluid shape (in comparison with Goodbye/ BM - very fluid and Argus - structured) Your opinion - is the tactic for top, sub top or underdog teams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Is there a correlation between shape and top sub or under dog? May be good for all as between GOODBYE and WOF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 PILGRIMAGE CF ¬FM18.2.1KnapPILGRIMACECF343P102ALLCUPS.fmf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, knap said: Is there a correlation between shape and top sub or under dog? May be good for all as between GOODBYE and WOF. I see it mainly as a "risk tacking" manipulator. With Fluid there will be more players participating in attacking transition phases which might make your team more prone getting hit while trying to counter yourself. Means if you have strong defenders you might get away with leaving them on their own defending, if you don't happen to have three CBs you are probably better off keeping the team in structured shape and let your three strikers make the major contribution to any attacking transition, while the deeper positions stay back a bit more. I'll probably take this tactic in my youth development save and employ it against much weaker teams while I will stick with the structured approach against the stronger ones. Gonna report back how my second season went, once I've finished it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I’ll give it a go Knap. Any chance of PI’s - can’t download. ive got most of your other tactics, so if they’re the same then I can copy. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Only tweaking shape TIs maybe the BBM and WBs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 BBM and WB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Flohrinho said: 'll probably take this tactic in my youth development save and employ it against much weaker teams while I will stick with the structured approach against the stronger ones. Gonna report back how my second season went, once I've finished it Can you get better results by shape shifting when playing with weaker teams, rather than mentality changes. Edited January 13, 2018 by knap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kappa007 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 quick question knap. have you got a tactic that could counter all these 523/343 formations that there is about on forums?? if not would be cool if you could try to make one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Scout Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 BM 433 or Volante 442 are very good as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 I test against any on line tactic. Against 3 fwds you really need 3 CBs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, knap said: Can you get better results by shape shifting when playing with weaker teams, rather than mentality changes. Well here is how I see it in a very simplified way. Mentality determines basically the urgency and risk you take by passing the ball forward as well as your aggressiveness in terms of closing down. From contain as the most risk averse and slow approach to build up to overload as the just hammer the ball forward and full field press approach. Now structure determines how many players will take part in this behavior. Looking at your tactic I would say the approach is like this. Attack structured will primarily launch the ball forward to your three strikers and hope they can create something with it while the support roles in your team will also try to get involved in attack but much less aggressive than your three forwards. The fluid approach on the other hand will make sure that your two midfielders and WBs try to get involved in the attacking play with almost as much urgency as your 3 strikers, thus offering more options going forward but also leaving your 3 CBs more exposed. Now the tricky part is when to chose which approach actually. I feel that in FM 18 the only way to break super defensive sides is to overrun them. So against a 4-1-4-1 that sits super deep I would probably chose your fluid tactic while against a team that is in the big 6 and has the quality of players to hurt my with fast attacks and has between 2 or 3 dedicated attacking players on the I would probably go with the structured approach to be less exposed at the back. In my Dortmund save where I micro manage a lot I usually chose the following approach with my 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-2-1. Against weaker teams that play defensive I usually go with a counter mentality and a fluid, or even very fluid shape. This way I can commit a lot of players forward, keep hold of the ball, so not to lose it in any dangerous situation and run into a counter an overwhelm my opponents. Against teams on par with me that play a bit more open I go with a more attacking approach mentality but a structured approach. For playing with "regular" tactics I feel this approach has suited me fairly well so far. So to answer your actual question I would say no. It always depends who you are facing. Is the team you are facing super defensive? Do they press you like mad? Do they have a more balanced approach? See a lot of people struggle with tactics because they don't get this vital concept, teams don't always play the same against you no matter if you are the underdog or a top team. Of course against a top team the opposition will start defensive almost every game but even as the underdog if you have had an amazing winning streak and teams are starting to respect/fear you more their approach will change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiza Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 According to the huge tactic test (https://forum.mrltactics.com/tactics), this tactic might be very good with a strong team. I took over BVB in 2022 and might try using it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 Top sub top and WOF has highest goals at 559. There is also a Lpool version of PILGRIMAGE that I have still to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 On 4/27/2018 at 10:06, knap said: Top sub top and WOF has highest goals at 559. There is also a Lpool version of PILGRIMAGE that I have still to post. Love the WOF against those pesky super defensive 4-1-4-1 I encounter in almost every game after a while. If I don't play against those formations I use the PILGRIMAGE and it's a great combination for my Dortmund side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fribbe Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 This had the best rating for a sub-top team on Mr L Tactis testing site so I decided to try it with Preston North End. Going pretty well so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 I would take 20 wins in 20 games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fribbe Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 49 minutes ago, knap said: I would take 20 wins in 20 games Probably jinxed it by posting that image. Lost the next game against Burton in 22nd with a rotated team. Very good tactic though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsalai Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Hi Knap! How do you handle Pre-Match Tactical Briefings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) yNot sure they have them in FMT but I leave these things to AM anyway. Edited April 29, 2018 by knap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandrle Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Does Pilgrimage work with 18.3.3? Whats tthe best tactic fot top team? Thanks Knap!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
8BuggieNights15 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, joandrle said: Does Pilgrimage work with 18.3.3? 12 clean sheets in a row as well at one stage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joandrle Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Justo ahora, 8BuggieNights15 dijo: 12 clean sheets in a row as well at one stage Thanks mate!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 All the tactics should work for a top team. What I look for is a maximum of 3 poor games in the 38 league game. This gives a range of 105pts and above with a tam like Arsenal. Nothing like a good run of clean sheets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Scout Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Knap, your tactic "FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP101.fmf" came 3d best in Mr.L Tactic Testing site. The PILGRIMAGE and WOF are dominating with ARGUS and BM close behind. Will you be also uploading this tactic and results here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 They lost the tactics to be tested, so tactics had to be uploaded again. This was tactic but I will have to search for screenshots as now out of order, but was 101 pts with Lpool ¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP101.fmf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 WOF has so far highest pts total overall at 381. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Scout Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, knap said: WOF has so far highest pts total overall at 381. Yes that is amazing(!), just wrote you about that in WOF thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinardier8282 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Media prediction 7 ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo3er Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 so is this the best 343 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinardier8282 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) Edited May 8, 2018 by pinardier8282 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Tactic List from testing WOF Flexible P381 PILGRIMAGE Fluid P367 ARGUS Structured P363 BLUE MATTER P356 GOODBYE Very Fluid P349 MIDSOMER 442 P103 P349 WOF 2323 P335 BLUE MATTER 352 P335 ASH Highly Structured P326 VOLANTE BWM P326 WOF 3412 P325 WOF 2233 P311 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmste Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 i holidayed both season left everything to assistant manager results were better when i played the games aswell my fave tactic of late thanks knap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
omrgul Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Hey knap, you are a great tactician. And have proven that year after year in making great tactics. Please share an insight related to your experience on current year's ME. Since there's an overload of 343 formations this year, and no doubt these are successful. But what exactly is making them successful? Is it the 3 at the back that makes them successful or the 3 Strikers that make them difficult for ME. Meaning if all of your tactics would have been FLAT 433 instead of the 343 with WBs, would they have been equally impressive? Please guide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 343 is top formation this year but for top dogs 433 may work as good as or better. 442 is also a strong formation. In general 3 > 2 > 1. Last year was 3430 and year before 442 and FM 08 it was a lone striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit 83 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Hello KNAP could you tell us about training general and individual about PILGRIMAGE???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 I use the AM but you can train roles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit 83 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 21 hours ago, knap said: I use the AM but you can train roles thks a lot man you are the best... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Scout Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Knap, please post your new best sub top tactic PILGRIMAGE, which achieved 380 pts on Mr. L testing. Thanks and congrats. Amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Is it not in OP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Not in OP. No screenshots but this is tactic ¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP104.fmf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Screenshots Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Overview of Tactic List from testing TOTAL SUB TOP UNDERDOG ARGUS FM 18.2.2 P102 P385 P206 P179 PILGRIMAGE FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P104 P380 P226 P154 WOF FM 18.3.3 P101 Flexible P381 P213 P168 WOF FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P100 ALL CUPS P365 P196 P169 PILGRIMAGE Fluid LPOOL P101 P367 P201 P166 PILGRIMAGE FM 18.2 P105 P357 P218 P139 ARGUS VOL 4 FM18.3.3 Structured P101 ALL CUPS P363 P220 P143 BLUE MATTER FM 18.3.3 P105 P356 P207 P149 GOODBYE FM 18.3 VOL 7 Very Fluid P349 P208 P141 GOODBYE 3421 P324 P205 P119 MIDSOMER 442 P103 (FLAT TEST) P349 P199 P150 WOF 2323 FM 18 P104 P335 P187 P148 BLUE MATTER FM 18.3 VOL 4 P102 352 P335 P206 P129 ASH FM 18.3 P104 Highly Structured P326 P190 P136 VOLANTE BWM FM 18.3 P101 P326 P191 P135 WOF 3412 P325 P198 P127 WOF 2233 P102HS FM 18.2 P311 P194 P117 BLUE MATTER VOL 4 P100 4123 FM 18.2.1 P310 P179 -P131 MMVOLANTEANCHOR 442 P302 P165 P127 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
omrgul Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 On 13/01/2018 at 21:04, Flohrinho said: Well here is how I see it in a very simplified way. Mentality determines basically the urgency and risk you take by passing the ball forward as well as your aggressiveness in terms of closing down. From contain as the most risk averse and slow approach to build up to overload as the just hammer the ball forward and full field press approach. Now structure determines how many players will take part in this behavior. Looking at your tactic I would say the approach is like this. Attack structured will primarily launch the ball forward to your three strikers and hope they can create something with it while the support roles in your team will also try to get involved in attack but much less aggressive than your three forwards. The fluid approach on the other hand will make sure that your two midfielders and WBs try to get involved in the attacking play with almost as much urgency as your 3 strikers, thus offering more options going forward but also leaving your 3 CBs more exposed. Now the tricky part is when to chose which approach actually. I feel that in FM 18 the only way to break super defensive sides is to overrun them. So against a 4-1-4-1 that sits super deep I would probably chose your fluid tactic while against a team that is in the big 6 and has the quality of players to hurt my with fast attacks and has between 2 or 3 dedicated attacking players on the I would probably go with the structured approach to be less exposed at the back. In my Dortmund save where I micro manage a lot I usually chose the following approach with my 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-2-1. Against weaker teams that play defensive I usually go with a counter mentality and a fluid, or even very fluid shape. This way I can commit a lot of players forward, keep hold of the ball, so not to lose it in any dangerous situation and run into a counter an overwhelm my opponents. Against teams on par with me that play a bit more open I go with a more attacking approach mentality but a structured approach. For playing with "regular" tactics I feel this approach has suited me fairly well so far. So to answer your actual question I would say no. It always depends who you are facing. Is the team you are facing super defensive? Do they press you like mad? Do they have a more balanced approach? See a lot of people struggle with tactics because they don't get this vital concept, teams don't always play the same against you no matter if you are the underdog or a top team. Of course against a top team the opposition will start defensive almost every game but even as the underdog if you have had an amazing winning streak and teams are starting to respect/fear you more their approach will change. Hi, great insightful post!!! Hey knap, what would be your opinion if choosing a tactic based on above information can help? For example, if I pick your best performing tactics; - 1 with Highly Structured approach for tough oppositions - 1 with Flexible approach for equally good opponents or Away games - 1 with Very Fluid approach for ultra defensive teams, or when I need to score? And then 1 SUS tactic to save legs and lead. This approach somehow also justifies how your Structured tactic (ARGUS) did so well for Underdog testing, while more Fluid approach (Pilgrimage) topped the Subtop testing table. Thanks, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 Highly structured which is ASH has not performed that well in comparison to other Shapes. Goodbye very fluid has also been below the other shapes but was the best underdog tactic last year when using counter. TBH the other Shapes have given similar performance, but in general I would agree with your conclusion, apart from when you need to score as WOF 2323 tactic is the top scorer. There is a PILGRIMAGE 2323 out for testing so in theory this should be higher scoring than WOF. I would also probably change formation for a SUS tactic as well as duties. I sometimes do this when a man sent off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raaalvas Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 19 hours ago, knap said: Highly structured which is ASH has not performed that well in comparison to other Shapes. Goodbye very fluid has also been below the other shapes but was the best underdog tactic last year when using counter. TBH the other Shapes have given similar performance, but in general I would agree with your conclusion, apart from when you need to score as WOF 2323 tactic is the top scorer. There is a PILGRIMAGE 2323 out for testing so in theory this should be higher scoring than WOF. I would also probably change formation for a SUS tactic as well as duties. I sometimes do this when a man sent off However, if you look at the SubTop AWAY results Knap, ASH performs very well. So that's pretty much been what i've used away from home and it works well. If i need a goal, or a dont feel the team is performing well, i switch to PILGRIMAGE 2323. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Not looked at that, and good to know that the testing also works in practices. I wonder if ASH would be better on counter if underdog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
solounamigo Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I'm absolutely smashing the Bundesliga and other competitions with Hoffenheim in the second season. Two seasons two CL titles - first season won the Bundesliga and the CL, and now I won everything. You're tactics are doing it again knap, no other combination is that amazing to play! I clearly recommend to try this tactical combination: HOME ¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE343LPOOLP104.fmf AWAY ¬FM18.3.3KnapWOF343P101.fmf WASTE TIME ¬FM18.2.2KnapASH343HSP101SHORTP101SUS.fmf (training to the assistant - team talks are absolutely important as I already said several times in this forum) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Following the discussion is ASH working as a SUS tactic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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