Cannot win against the top 4!

[edhdurham]

I am playing as Newcastle, currently 5th after 12 games and playing ok, due to the tactic I want to play I am having to re-train a couple of people, but still doing ok, last two games beat West Ham 4-1 having been 4-0 at half time and beat Leicester 1-0 also at home...  but if I play any of the top 4 I am getting battered (not just beat, battered!).  So Man U at home beaten 1-3, Chelsea and Arsenal away 3-0 in both games!!!

When you look at the odds for the game they are heavy favourites with it saying stuff like we face the impossible etc.  I tend to play counter against the stronger teams and control against team where I am favourite / in good home etc which generally works, except for the big guns...  I did trying playing Control in the second half of the Arsenal game and played much better.

So how do I tackle the bigger teams, just play control from the start and if I get a goal ahead go to counter and try and sneak a second, or look at setting up a defensive tactic and just see if I can get a result!

[felipencntst]

Hi mate, 

You can definitely beat the big teams which any of these strategies (pushing up and pressing, sitting back and soaking). It's more about what your team can pull off and what suits you. 

How I play: I'm currently at season 3 with Derby County. Last season I finished 8th and I'm currently at 3rd, although my team is certainly one of the worst in the league (1-1000 odds of being champion, same odds as all relegation candidates). 

My formation is 3-5-2. I want to play a calm, possession oriented attacking football. I use my wing-backs to stretch the play, and stack four creative players on the mid to create the plays (two CM-S, a CM-A and a DLF-S) for the AF-A finish (it's not always like this, other players score too etc, but you get the point). Defensively, my team is dodgy, so we focus on bringing the press to the midfield line (not too far to not concede space behind, not too close to not being pressured) and diminishing the opposing midfield time on the ball, forcing them on a long pass that is soaked by my back three. It not always work, but I beat Liverpool and Tottenham playing like this.

In FM17, I played Celtic, so we played a lot of monsters on the Champions League. We played a 4-3-3 where I tucked my full-backs inside soaked the pressure, before realeasing a counter-attack with my AP-A, IF-S, W-A and CF-S. I got to the Champions League semi-final two times, only to be beaten by Real Madrid both times with Ramos being Ramos on dead balls.

So, what I suggest: share with the forum your tactics and how would you rather defend and attack, considering what your players can pull off. 

[Thengil]

I think playing defensively CAN work, but you're inviting pressure so expect to get bombarded all game long. If you can set up so that they're forced into long shots it can work.

The other way to approach it is to meet them head on, put pressure on their back four/three and hound them all game long. Opposition instructions to close down the defenders always can be successful. Play your regular game and hope they underestimate you enough. As long as you don't go all out attack and invite them to counter on you it can be successful - always think of how many players you have behind the ball if you happen to lose it in the middle of the pitch due to a bad pass.

In reality you're favored to lose for a reason - they have much better players, so don't expect to win often.

[herne79]

38 minutes ago, edhdurham said:

So how do I tackle the bigger teams

First of all you manage your own expectations.  Your thread title is cannot win against the top 4, you're in the first season with just 12 games played, the odds are heavily in their favour and the game even tells you that you face the impossible.  And if iirc Newcastle aren't really expected to do well in the first season.  And yet you want to beat the top 4 and seem disappointed you get "battered".  Be realistic.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get results - that wouldn't be realistic as small teams against big teams show every season - but that should be the exception not the rule.  What do teams do in real life?  They set up to defend, keep it tight and disciplined, hope to nick a goal on the break or from a dead ball.  And even then most of the time it doesn't work, but occasionally it does.

There's an article linked in the "please read" pinned thread at the top of this forum called "The Art of Counter Attacking".  That might give you some more insight .

[Thengil]

Just now, herne79 said:

First of all you manage your own expectations.  Your thread title is cannot win against the top 4, you're in the first season with just 12 games played, the odds are heavily in their favour and the game even tells you that you face the impossible.  And if iirc Newcastle aren't really expected to do well in the first season.  And yet you want to beat the top 4 and seem disappointed you get "battered".  Be realistic.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get results - that wouldn't be realistic as small teams against big teams show every season - but that should be the exception not the rule.  What do teams do in real life?  They set up to defend, keep it tight and disciplined, hope to nick a goal on the break or from a dead ball.  And even then most of the time it doesn't work, but occasionally it does.

There's an article linked in the "please read" pinned thread at the top of this forum called "The Art of Counter Attacking".  That might give you some more insight .

On the other hand teams like Bristol City have shown that you can actually get results (or keep it close at least) by refusing to park the bus and instead play a high pressing game. Sure, it might backfire but at least they gave themselves a chance to win unlike, say, Newcastle who refused to even try to compete.

[edhdurham]

48 minutes ago, herne79 said:

First of all you manage your own expectations.  Your thread title is cannot win against the top 4, you're in the first season with just 12 games played, the odds are heavily in their favour and the game even tells you that you face the impossible.  And if iirc Newcastle aren't really expected to do well in the first season.  And yet you want to beat the top 4 and seem disappointed you get "battered".  Be realistic.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get results - that wouldn't be realistic as small teams against big teams show every season - but that should be the exception not the rule.  What do teams do in real life?  They set up to defend, keep it tight and disciplined, hope to nick a goal on the break or from a dead ball.  And even then most of the time it doesn't work, but occasionally it does.

There's an article linked in the "please read" pinned thread at the top of this forum called "The Art of Counter Attacking".  That might give you some more insight .

Thanks @herne79 I think you right in that I have it in my head that I should be beating everyone.  My tactic must be ok to be getting some of the results I have had, so I just need to build my squad...  I think as I am playing with 2 x WM-A of which there are few players in the game who can play that role, having to retrain these players will be having an affect as well, guess I need to review it after a few seasons.