Explain CM role combos for my 4-4-2

[Mactier]

Hi.  I'd like comments on how best to put my two CMs to work in my 4-4-2.

Here's my FM17: 4-4-2.  The primary setup is - Counter/very fluid.

The plan is 1xCM to contribute to the attack and one CM be a bit behind with the job of closing down the opposition's midfield mystro when defending.  But also be a cog in the attack setup.  (I switch them over depending on where the opposition play-maker is.)

As you can see at the moment it's a BBM (su) & DLP (def).  The combo works but I don't have enough FM skills to know what's better and more importantly how do I get info from the played games to judge how good the combo is.

If there is a youtube FM guide vid. targeting this need plz let me know where to look.

Anyways plz throw in some CM combos and why they work well together.

[permanentquandary]

The key is to have at least one holding midfielder and ensure these two players are conservative in their movements.

Your playmakers are your ML/MR - they create the chances with crosses, mainly. So your central midfielders don't need to get fancy, but they need to find ways to link to attack whilst being conservative.

Experiment with any of these:

CM(D) - CM(S)
CM(D) - BBM(S)
CM(D) - DLP(S)
DLP(S) - BBM(S)
DLP(S) - BWM(S)
DLP(S) - BWM(D)
CM(S) (hold position) - CM(S)

Results may vary!

[juusal]

28 minutes ago, Mactier said:

Hi.  I'd like comments on how best to put my two CMs to work in my 4-4-2.

Here's my FM17: 4-4-2.  The primary setup is - Counter/very fluid.

The plan is 1xCM to contribute to the attack and one CM be a bit behind with the job of closing down the opposition's midfield mystro when defending.  But also be a cog in the attack setup.  (I switch them over depending on where the opposition play-maker is.)

As you can see at the moment it's a BBM (su) & DLP (def).  The combo works but I don't have enough FM skills to know what's better and more importantly how do I get info from the played games to judge how good the combo is.

If there is a youtube FM guide vid. targeting this need plz let me know where to look.

Anyways plz throw in some CM combos and why they work well together.

Nothing wrong with this setup, if it works like you want it to work. Here you should expect the DLP/D to drop deeper in possession and pass the ball forward either to your BBM, shadow strikers or the wide midfielder bursting forward. BBM will support the attacks. However, if you want the BBM to be even more aggressive with his runs and run past the shadow strikers, you could consider using get further forward PI for him, although I don't think that is necessary if your shadow strikers make enough runs forward.

Defensively, DLP/D will sit deeper and BBM will position himself and close down higher up the pitch. So if you are facing a deep lying playmaker instead of a more advanced one, then I would suggest putting the BBM up against a deep playmaker.

Your combo does not have any weaknesses as such, so as long as your players are up to the task it should be fine. Just remember, your midfielders have a lot of ground to cover so make sure they have decent defensive skills - if your BBM is really attacking minded and your DLP/D is just a pure creator you might be in trouble.

 

14 minutes ago, permanentquandary said:

The key is to have at least one holding midfielder and ensure these two players are conservative in their movements.

Your playmakers are your ML/MR - they create the chances with crosses, mainly. So your central midfielders don't need to get fancy, but they need to find ways to link to attack whilst being conservative.

Experiment with any of these:

CM(D) - CM(S)
CM(D) - BBM(S)
CM(D) - DLP(S)
DLP(S) - BBM(S)
DLP(S) - BWM(S)
DLP(S) - BWM(D)
CM(S) (hold position) - CM(S)

Results may vary!

None of the bolded roles are really holding midfielders. DLP/S will look to support moves from deep and will venture further up the field than DLP/D. BWM with both duties close down really heavily, rather than holding their position covering the defensive line. CM/S with hold position will not maybe make forward runs, but neither does he drop deeper in front of the center backs like a holding player would.

Nothing wrong with CM/D - X/X combos though, but DLP/D does a holding role better than the bolded roles/duties, provided the player in that role has decent positioning, work rate, tackling and strength among other other important attributes.

[permanentquandary]

3 minutes ago, juusal said:

None of the bolded roles are really holding midfielders. DLP/S will look to support moves from deep and will venture further up the field than DLP/D. BWM with both duties close down really heavily, rather than holding their position covering the defensive line. CM/S with hold position will not maybe make forward runs, but neither does he drop deeper in front of the center backs like a holding player would.

Nothing wrong with CM/D - X/X combos though, but DLP/D does a holding role better than the bolded roles/duties, provided the player in that role has decent positioning, work rate, tackling and strength among other other important attributes.

You're right but at the same time they are superior in attack, and that may be enough to get a goal or two. Then one can switch to the true holding mid combos.

In other words, with the 442, switching roles according to the situation may be more optimal than in other systems where you can just leave your roles alone.

[Mactier]

Recapping on what I've gleaned from above -

My BBM-su + DLP-d are fine - no need to change.

As for my center-midfielder duo's defensive duties regarding tying up the opposition's mid-field star, rather than swapping sides everytime to put the DLP onto him, if the opposition's play-maker is e.g. a DLP sitting deep then preferably sic the BBM onto him as he's closer.

On a side-note - My BBM is my hero and hence very capable.    To have the BBM as a 3rd attack/scoring option do I want him to get into the box with the Shadow Strikers or encourage him to shoot from further back?   

And either way, what traits-skills and instructions will he need to deliver the goals?

 

best,

Mactier

[permanentquandary]

3 minutes ago, Mactier said:

Recapping on what I've gleaned from above -

My BBM-su + DLP-d are fine - no need to change.

As for my center-midfielder duo's defensive duties regarding tying up the opposition's mid-field star, rather than swapping sides everytime to put the DLP onto him, if the opposition's play-maker is e.g. a DLP sitting deep then preferably sic the BBM onto him as he's closer.

On a side-note - My BBM is my hero and hence very capable.    To have the BBM as a 3rd attack/scoring option do I want him to get into the box with the Shadow Strikers or encourage him to shoot from further back?   

And either way, what traits-skills and instructions will he need to deliver the goals?

 

best,

Mactier

I think the BBM can be a bit too aggressive, in that he roams and leaves gaps, and also has a problem in not being able to find space occupied by two forwards.

[herne79]

4 minutes ago, Mactier said:

My BBM-su + DLP-d are fine - no need to change.

I haven't seen anything about the players you have.  Players are the other part of the equation and just as important.

There is nothing wrong with the BBM/DLP(D) combo so long as you have the players for it.  So for example take that DLP(D).  He'll not only be your static tennis ball launcher from deep, you're also asking him to be primary defensive cover.  Does he have all the attributes for that?  Good work rate, determination, tackling, positioning - as well as passing and vision?

Your roles define how players behave, your players then determine how well they're able to carry out those roles.

[Mactier]

21 minutes ago, permanentquandary said:

I think the BBM can be a bit too aggressive, in that he roams and leaves gaps, and also has a problem in not being able to find space occupied by two forwards.

I've noticed that with my BBM.  But I haven't enough experience to feel how each role works.  Assuming my DLP-d is fine.  Let's fix the BBM.   I want the BBM or similar to be forwardish the central cog of the team and involved in the attacks but not over-committed like the front-end mob.  Nominate what you blokes think is the best alternative here plz  with player match-day instructions.   (The joy of using Shadow Strikers at the pointy end is they don't sit on their butts after the attack, rather they scurry back lending a defensive hand.)   

No..........!!!!!!!!  I don't have 5-star heroes.  I'm currently in Skybet L1 looking forward to promotion this season.

[permanentquandary]

3 minutes ago, Mactier said:

I've noticed that with my BBM.  But I haven't enough experience to feel how each role works.  Assuming my DLP-d is fine.  Let's fix the BBM.   I want the BBM or similar to be forwardish the central cog of the team and involved in the attacks but not over-committed like the front-end mob.  Nominate what you blokes think is the best alternative here plz  with player match-day instructions.   (The joy of using Shadow Strikers at the pointy end is they don't sit on their butts after the attack, rather they scurry back lending a defensive hand.)   

I feel you're looking for a CM(S) or DLP(S), and if you use a DLP(S), switch the DLP(D) to CM(D). But in a 442 I'm not looking to attract the ball to a central playmaker. Personally I think CM(D) and CM(S) will be your best bet.

CM(S) doesn't overcommit forward, stays central, but provides enough support around the edge of the area in the final third.

That being said, there is something to be said for attracting the ball to a DLP in that it could somehow create space for your wide players.

Food for thought.

[Mactier]

Thanks ppl.  Being in SkyBet L1 I don't a pair Usain Bolts' on the wings.  From what I read from everyone's advice is that my midfield concerns will go down as my wingers quality rises. 

[alanschu14]

1 hour ago, Mactier said:

Thanks ppl.  Being in SkyBet L1 I don't a pair Usain Bolts' on the wings.  From what I read from everyone's advice is that my midfield concerns will go down as my wingers quality rises. 

Important thing to remember is that the other team typically doesn't either. My experience the past few years with LLM is that I can often still be somewhat adventurous as long as my players have sufficiently superior quality. (which can be a bit of a challenge as the star rating is relative to your own players).

One thing I've found that helps is a quick glance at the coach report. I took over Reims who held of relegation from Ligue 1, and most of my players had "is a good player for Ligue 2" which is obviously not going to cut it for making a push up Ligue 1.  So I learned that basically any player on my roster that wasn't already considered 3.5 stars (3* players typically were "Ligue 2" players) are avenues for improvement.

(One of my biggest challenges thus far is dealing with promotion and assessing whether or not a player is of sufficient quality. I've definitely gotten better at it this season, but in the past I leveraged the IGE for helping me assess whether or not the player genuinely has quality by giving it a quick look over. Learning how to better do that as well as understanding how to leverage my coach reports to better understand my team quality has helped a lot this season. In retrospect I think I'd love it if the Coach report showed stars relative to the League I'm in, but alas that's not the way it is hahaha).

[warlock]

@herne79 is perhaps too modest to mention it, but he has a very nice 442 that combines a BWM-d with a B2B to very good effect. Well worth a read.

 

[Mactier]

4 hours ago, warlock said:

@herne79 is perhaps too modest to mention it, but he has a very nice 442 that combines a BWM-d with a B2B to very good effect. Well worth a read.

Now this is the stuff hopes are pinned on.  Kettle's on the boil and I'm settling in for a read as I fiddle with my line-up.  Only thing that's a bit out of tune in my save is "Roaming Playmaker".    This a rare animal.  not only does one have to re-train the chosen one but also at least one more.   That leaves a gap of skills in the RPM spot until he becomes educated.  

In this case and other similar situations where my RPM has only one red square of skill for this role at present should I play him anyway as an inept RPM or designate the role as say a B2B until the lad learns him RPM trade?  

 

 

[warlock]

5 minutes ago, Mactier said:

Only thing that's a bit out of tune in my save is "Roaming Playmaker"

Brew that tea and read on... that RPM becomes a B2B before you finish dunking the biscuit.