Using a half back in a flat back four

[Aizo4576]

Has this issue been fixed yet? Haven't heard anything about it.

See this post for info.  bbaw

Essentially in a flat back four, the two CBs don't move out a bit wider when the wingbacks push up and the half back drops down

[Gegenklaus]

They dont fan out wide enough in my opinion. Or at least for what I want. If you use two IWB's, the CB's fan/split perfectly.

[thomit]

I use a HB in front of a "flat" back four (WB-BPD-BPD-WB), and I disagree with Özil-to-the-Arsenal on this subject, even if I agree with him on a lot of other tactical aspects. My central defenders move wide enough to cover the flanks left by attacking WB's, but not too wide so that they leave a huge gap in the middle. The HB in front of a back four will not safeguard that central gap all the time, but -  when the team is in possession - move a bit furher up the pitch to act as a possession recycler, a better passing outlet for the more advanced players. The gap he leaves then could be easily exploited by a quick thinking opposition defender and a speedy forward. I would argue that the HB works better in a flat back four than in a formation where you have placed the WB's higher up in what is called the WB position. The latter will make the central defenders go wider, and then the central gap will be the HB's problem alone. It can work if you have a particularly good and disciplined HB, but it's risky. And it's not the way I want my HB to work; I prefer the way he and the CD's operate when there's a flat back four behind him.

[Gegenklaus]

I can understand that Thomit, but don't you find it easy for the opposition to press the HB and two CB's if you want to build from the back. Not all AI teams does this but I've seen it happen numerous times, because "the back theee" didnt spread wide enough. It is a matter of how one to utilise the half back of course.

[ajsr1982]

I think this is one of the areas of the game that needs some development, and it's not specific to the HB role. Many top teams these days push their full backs right up, which means that the CBs split very wide, with one of the midfielders dropping in to sit between them as play builds up. That doesn't necessarily have to be a HB, but would be true of any player in the DM position, and maybe even someone in the CM position (I'm thinking a DLP-D for context).

However... it's more complex than that, isn't it? The CBs and the midfielder in question take their positions off one another. The higher up the midfielder is, the narrower the CBs need to be. Likewise, if there isn't space to drop in between the CBs, the midfielder will look for space elsewhere. also, you would be far more careful if the opposition were playing two up front, or an AM with instructions to press the midfielder.

In summary, there's no easy rule of thumb to this, which I would imagine makes it a nightmare to code without introducing an obvious exploit.

[Lordluap]

Agree totally with Thomit... ask the keeper to Take Short Kicks but not select anyone, will pass to the open man...

[Gegenklaus]

1 minute ago, Lordluap said:

Agree totally with Thomit... ask the keeper to Take Short Kicks but not select anyone, will pass to the open man...

And you dont see the ball getting hoofed often? I know this depends on the keeper and various other things. What's your experience?

[thomit]

I have my keeper (SK/support) distribute to central defenders. I have yet to see the opposition nick the ball from one of my defenders or the HB. The keeper is not stupid; if CDs/HB is tightly marked he finds other passing outlets, usually the WB's. I play a very fluid 4123 DM formation.