natyd Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 ok so i can understand clubs bidding low for my players when im a low rep club but psg and real bidding 77 million for pogba who is valued at 79 and one of the best midfielders on the game is a joke ive won the prem and fa cup the last 2 seasons in a row i can understand europe has not been the best going out at the 1st knockout stage both seasons but surely this is a bug players of far less value and ability are moving for far more than what i have been offered for pogba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 It's neither a joke or a bug- it is the first step in the negotiation process and they are testing your resolve. If you don't like the bid, you reject it and tell them what you want for the player or that he is not for sale and so the process moves on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 all the bids are non negotiable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanMilly Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, natyd said: all the bids are non negotiable In which case they're trying their luck because that might be the full extent of their transfer budget, or they're trying to unsettle him to get him to push for the transfer and try to force a sale at a lower price. Just tell them he isn't for sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 im happy to sell i just want a reasonable bid 2 million under his value is not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu14 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 If you say no, it's not uncommon for them to come back later with a higher offer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 so having non stop almost daily bids of 77 and 81 million all non negotiable i told the player hes free to go if an offer of 119 comes in but no bids near that theirs also the annoyance of the media quoting a 132 million deal for pogba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oulzac Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Set the asking price you want on his transfer page and then set the option next to that to reject all offers below asking price. Then you'll never see those offers. I always do this if I start getting these non-negotiable offers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 thats not the problem tho the issue i have is the fact that the bids they are placing are ridiculous the player has 3 years left on his contract and is one of the best midfielders about its not like im a small club im manchester utd they should at least be bidding over his value especially if he is set as there prime target Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 and now real are bidding 93 million for lukaku who is valued at 66 why did this not happen with pogba absolute joke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of how NOT to give feedback or submit a possible bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
penza Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, XaW said: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of how NOT to give feedback or submit a possible bug. on every single thread, whats the point? Do you have templates? damn...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 8 hours ago, natyd said: and now real are bidding 93 million for lukaku who is valued at 66 why did this not happen with pogba absolute joke is Pogba older? I find whatever the player, if they are at there supposed prime and over 25 i never get the bigger offers the entire system needs replacing imho, people have had this issue for a decade, maybe longer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 The player's in game value is simply a figure taken from his reputation, club reputation, age, salary, time left on salary and maybe one or two other things. It is not a definitive 'Player X is worth Y', there is no such thing in football and it's only in the game as a guide to the player. A player's value in real terms is simply somewhere in between what team 1 want to sell him for, and what team 2 want to buy him for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, penza said: on every single thread, whats the point? Do you have templates? damn...... Of course! You don't? </template> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, johnhughthom said: The player's in game value is simply a figure taken from his reputation, club reputation, age, salary, time left on salary and maybe one or two other things. It is not a definitive 'Player X is worth Y', there is no such thing in football and it's only in the game as a guide to the player. A player's value in real terms is simply somewhere in between what team 1 want to sell him for, and what team 2 want to buy him for. This is a good summary, so it is best not to stress too much about in-game values and low bids, just learn to use the system to your best advantage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 i understand there are no set values as such but surely when you have one of the best midfielders in the game and having 3 years left on his contract i can expect team to bid at least a little over his value if he had 1 or 2 years left i could them see them chancing it and testing my resolve but with 3 years left and on 200k per week the least id expect would be say 10%over market value Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Why do you expect them to? Do you want the AI to be so simple that they don't ever try for a better deal? You don't like the offer, you reject it. I fail to see what the problem is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 30 minutes ago, forameuss said: Why do you expect them to? Do you want the AI to be so simple that they don't ever try for a better deal? You don't like the offer, you reject it. I fail to see what the problem is. You must be blind then imagine real life someone bidding say 50 million for pogba utd say we paid 89 but are willing to sell for 100 would you then expect the bidding club to come back with a bid of 50 million again no you wouldent and there is the problem its unrealistic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnip Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I had a similar situation that irritated me. My GK - 23 years old and comfortably good enough for the league above where we are - was the subject of a number of bids of £350k. Now, his value was £350k but I'd signed him only 6 months previously for £195k, he had 2 years left on his contract and the bids wouldn't even have bought out his contract. In addition, I'd set his value at £4.4m (a reasonable price for a Ligue 1 standard GK), the club wasn't short of money (Secure) and we had plenty left in the wage budget. Beyond that, even, I'd been in the same situation the previous season with a bunch of other players and hadn't budged on any of them. Clearly, there was no chance of me actually selling this guy for his value, but I still kept receiving the bids, for the same amount, over a number of weeks. All but one of them (the first, I think) Non-Negotiable. If it was his Agent telling clubs about him (do AI clubs get informed about players this way?), why did he think I'd accept, and if it wasn't, did all those other clubs just have scouts who completely misread the situation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, natyd said: You must be blind then imagine real life someone bidding say 50 million for pogba utd say we paid 89 but are willing to sell for 100 would you then expect the bidding club to come back with a bid of 50 million again no you wouldent and there is the problem its unrealistic That's moving the goalposts somewhat. Original gripe seems to be the temerity of them bidding below value (a completely arbitrary figure, by the way). There's nothing wrong with a club doing that, as any club would in real life. If it really offends you that much, set an auto-reject on anything below what you would sell a player for. Again, I really don't see why this is such a problem. The transfer AI could improve, as always, but it's nowhere near as bad as you're making out, even after you moved the argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 42 minutes ago, natyd said: You must be blind then imagine real life someone bidding say 50 million for pogba utd say we paid 89 but are willing to sell for 100 would you then expect the bidding club to come back with a bid of 50 million again no you wouldent and there is the problem its unrealistic Ok, I'll give you an example from my Liverpool game. Barcelona were after Mane, and I though I could sell, but I weren't actively trying to sell, so I figured I could get quite a lot from them. Their first offer were around his value (around £35M if I remember correctly). I refused and used the reason "offer not good enough". They came back a little while later with around £45M and I though it still were far short of what I wanted so I refused again with the same reason. Then they came with a non-negotiable bid of £55M. Still not good enough, but I would have negotiated if I could. Then, at deadline day, they came with another bid for £55M, but this time negotiable. So I negotiated it up to £80M, they countered with £70M. I gave them the possibility of £75M+ clauses (30% of next sale, and some other smaller clauses). They accepted and he left. So I sold him for more than double their initial bid and I might have more coming later on should they sell him. A small disclaimer, I might be slightly of the actual values, since it's a while a go, but they are close enough. The AI sometimes comes with cheeky bids to try to get a player if they think they have a possibility of getting him at a bargain. If you refuse, they sometime pay real money for him. The first bid is also often to try to unsettle the player and thus having a better chance to get him for less than they would else since managers rarely want to keep unhappy players. Just because the AI makes a bid, it doesn't mean they won't pay much more. And if you always get your first bid accepted in game, then you are paying much more than you could! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, forameuss said: If it really offends you that much, set an auto-reject on anything below what you would sell a player for. Again, I really don't see why this is such a problem. The transfer AI could improve, as always, but it's nowhere near as bad as you're making out, even after you moved the argument. I agree! I want it to be better as well. It's way to easy to screw over the AI at the moment. As per my last post where I sold Mane for a whole lot, I used that money to get in Marco Asensio for £55M and had a lot left. I also managed to sell Lovren to Leicester for £37,5M! And Karius to Barcelona for £24M! I'm laughing all the way to the bank here. Hopefully, the AI will be better at negotiating in FM19 onwards, though I get that many people would dislike a smarter transfer AI as they would have a harder time getting the upper hand. So I guess it's up to how realistic SI want the game to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtradj Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 PSG bid 177m for pogba in my save after the second season One issue I have is that when I’ve bid for players for example Havertz they wanted 144m that was the lowest I could negotiate, yet a week later he signs for Real Madrid for 55m This has happened with many players. Bug? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, xtradj said: PSG bid 177m for pogba in my save after the second season One issue I have is that when I’ve bid for players for example Havertz they wanted 144m that was the lowest I could negotiate, yet a week later he signs for Real Madrid for 55m This has happened with many players. Bug? Did you keep him on your shortlist? If so, why didn't you bid when you saw Madrid had made their bid? Generally in this situation, the user has unsettled the player, but not kept an eye on the situation, so an AI team comes in and takes the unhappy player. A transfer does not necessarily happen over one negotiation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 51 minutes ago, forameuss said: That's moving the goalposts somewhat. Original gripe seems to be the temerity of them bidding below value (a completely arbitrary figure, by the way). There's nothing wrong with a club doing that, as any club would in real life. If it really offends you that much, set an auto-reject on anything below what you would sell a player for. Again, I really don't see why this is such a problem. The transfer AI could improve, as always, but it's nowhere near as bad as you're making out, even after you moved the argument. Not moving goalposts at all the issue is them bidding an unrealistic amount all i did was show you a real life comparison and just how ridiculous the bids im reciveing are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, natyd said: Not moving goalposts at all the issue is them bidding an unrealistic amount Define "unrealistic" in this scenario Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 How about you show me an example of a club buying 1 of the best players in the world for less than market value whilest that player has 3 years remaing on his current contract Ill wait Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu14 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, natyd said: How about you show me an example of a club buying 1 of the best players in the world for less than market value whilest that player has 3 years remaing on his current contract Ill wait I think part of the challenge with proving this is we may not be privy to seeing what the starting offers are in real life? I mean, it's only a sell "below market value" if you accept it. Do the offers go up if you reply with "Not good enough" and wait a bit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Nope Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanMilly Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, natyd said: How about you show me an example of a club buying 1 of the best players in the world for less than market value whilest that player has 3 years remaing on his current contract Ill wait Market Value is purely what the Market is willing to sell/buy something for. For footballers, there is no objective value. Example with Liverpool - Oxlade-Chamberlain was £40m, Mo Salah was £35m, yet Mo Salah is now worth easily as much as Coutinho was, and Chamberlain has probably increased a small amount, if at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said: Market Value is purely what the Market is willing to sell/buy something for. For footballers, there is no objective value. Example with Liverpool - Oxlade-Chamberlain was £40m, Mo Salah was £35m, yet Mo Salah is now worth easily as much as Coutinho was, and Chamberlain has probably increased a small amount, if at all. Precisely. The term "market value" is being used without the definition being applied Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 hours ago, natyd said: i understand there are no set values as such but surely when you have one of the best midfielders in the game and having 3 years left on his contract i can expect team to bid at least a little over his value if he had 1 or 2 years left i could them see them chancing it and testing my resolve but with 3 years left and on 200k per week the least id expect would be say 10%over market value Clearly you don't understand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, johnhughthom said: Clearly you don't understand. No i dont as it goes there is either a set value or not if the value of a player is purely random depending on what a club is willing to pay then can you please explain to me the point of any player having a value attached to them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, natyd said: No i dont as it goes there is either a set value or not if the value of a player is purely random depending on what a club is willing to pay then can you please explain to me the point of any player having a value attached to them The value is there because it has always been there. If SI took it out the forums would be full of whining. Personally I don't think it should be there as a large number of users seem to take it as a meaningful number, but I can understand why it's there in terms of user and AI usage. Just because a player has a set value doesn't mean he's worth exactly that to you, or the AI. It should be taken as a very general ballpark figure, and no more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, natyd said: How about you show me an example of a club buying 1 of the best players in the world for less than market value whilest that player has 3 years remaing on his current contract Ill wait I will, as soon as you define "market value" since it's clearly not the sale price to you. The fact is that market value is what anyone are willing to buy. I won't hold my breath though, as you only seem to reply with demands, while giving ear deafening silence as soon as anyone challenge any of your claims. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, XaW said: I will, as soon as you define "market value" since it's clearly not the sale price to you. The fact is that market value is what anyone are willing to buy. I won't hold my breath though, as you only seem to reply with demands, while giving ear deafening silence as soon as anyone challenge any of your claims. And im still waiting for an example you obviousley cant offer 1 up so i suggest you be quiet you mug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, natyd said: And im still waiting for an example you obviousley cant offer 1 up so i suggest you be quiet you mug As mentioned above: Salah for about £35M. Obviously worth a lot more. Others? Bonucci to Milan for £35M. Dani Ceballos to Real Madrid for £15M. Andy Robertson to Liverpool for £8M. Zagadou to Dortmund for pocket change. And that's just from the top of my head. Now, how about that clean and concise definition of "Market value" not being actual sale prices for your end? Oh, and name calling won't get you far, so please stop with the childish behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtradj Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 hours ago, johnhughthom said: Did you keep him on your shortlist? If so, why didn't you bid when you saw Madrid had made their bid? Generally in this situation, the user has unsettled the player, but not kept an eye on the situation, so an AI team comes in and takes the unhappy player. A transfer does not necessarily happen over one negotiation. We bid at the same time but he I was told 144m at best which was too much and days later they signed him for 55 Like I say this happens all the time, with various players I’ve been quoted extortionate amounts yet another club seems to sign them for a lot cheaper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, natyd said: And im still waiting for an example you obviousley cant offer 1 up so i suggest you be quiet you mug How is he supposed to give an example of something which doesn't exist? There is no such thing as a defined market value in football, except for websites/companies making up their own arbitary rules, so how is he supposed to provide an example? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, xtradj said: We bid at the same time but he I was told 144m at best which was too much and days later they signed him for 55 Like I say this happens all the time, with various players I’ve been quoted extortionate amounts yet another club seems to sign them for a lot cheaper You can't bid at the same time as the AI, either they bid before you and the accepted offer would have been visible (minus clauses), giving you a base to negotiate from, or they bid after you, and you would have received notification of the accepted bid, allowing you to come back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycarrie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 So basically because he isn't getting what he wants the game is a joke. Bless Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 hours ago, natyd said: How about you show me an example of a club buying 1 of the best players in the world for less than market value whilest that player has 3 years remaing on his current contract Ill wait Well they didn't buy them, did they? You weren't going to accept the offer. If you want to be fair, let's look for examples of teams bidding lower amounts than players were "worth". We could start with Arsenal's widely derided "40 million and a pound" bid for a player that ended up going for a rumoured £64.8m. That sounds like a fairly ridiculous bid, no? And you're trumpeting this "market value" term around. Where exactly do you find this in the real world? Given it's a completely arbitrary value in FM - as several people have now told you - I wouldn't have thought you could. So where exactly are you deriving this completely made up figure from? "Mug" what a riddy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 36 minutes ago, XaW said: As mentioned above: Salah for about £35M. Obviously worth a lot more. Others? Bonucci to Milan for £35M. Dani Ceballos to Real Madrid for £15M. Andy Robertson to Liverpool for £8M. Zagadou to Dortmund for pocket change. And that's just from the top of my head. Now, how about that clean and concise definition of "Market value" not being actual sale prices for your end? Oh, and name calling won't get you far, so please stop with the childish behaviour. salah is the only one you could make an argument for but he was not producing the form he is now so 35 is applicable now imagine a club bidding 35 for salah now it would be a joke which is exactly my issue with the pogba bids im receiving do you not understand this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, natyd said: salah is the only one you could make an argument for but he was not producing the form he is now so 35 is applicable now imagine a club bidding 35 for salah now it would be a joke which is exactly my issue with the pogba bids im receiving do you not understand this Still waiting for that clear and concise definition of "market value" from you. With evidence of course. Though, I don't think I'll get any real answer from you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, XaW said: Still waiting for that clear and concise definition of "market value" from you. With evidence of course. zzzzzzzzz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, natyd said: zzzzzzzzz As I expected. I think this matter is resolved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltmurrayuk Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 hours ago, natyd said: You must be blind then imagine real life someone bidding say 50 million for pogba utd say we paid 89 but are willing to sell for 100 would you then expect the bidding club to come back with a bid of 50 million again no you wouldent and there is the problem its unrealistic The thing is this happens IRL as well - Mahrez at Leicester is a recent example - he's wanted out for a couple of seasons now but is still there because no one will meet Leicester's valuation, Roma made several bids of ~£35m in the summer but they were turned down as Leicester want closer to £50m and presumably Roma were told the price was £50m after the first bid but came in again with the same £35m bid, I'm pretty sure City made some low bids for him in the Jan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 If I realised I'd made an arse of my point, I'd probably just stop posting and move on to something else. So...well done, I guess? But on a serious note, if you really think there's something wrong - which there isn't - then raise it as a bug with evidence, and the people that actually matter will take a look and be able to tell you either way. I wouldn't hold my breath on getting a different answer though, particularly with the attitude you've shown so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natyd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, XaW said: As I expected. I think this matter is resolved. just got better things to do than reply to a mug like u Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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