Help me improve my team

[Liamgannon]

As the title says, would love to hear your feedback on all aspects of my team, including:

selected players 

tactics 

strengths

weaknesses 

formation 

team instructions 

player roles  

 

 

[z464]

Looks like you try to get the ball back asap to create attack . 

 

IMO

You have 3 playmakers ( DLP, AP , Trequartista ) , that means when you get  the ball back other teammates will look for thess 3 playmakers first which slow down your attack . 

If I want to do attack I will change both Verratti and Raboit to Cm's . Now Neymar is the only target man and let him create attack . 

[amil21]

You're going to need much more defensive cover in the midfield, especially with all three attackers on attack duty, with an attacking mentality and a structured team shape. One thing you could do is move Rabiot to the middle and play him as a DLP (d) and then change your two outside center midfielders to BWM (s). Also changing your team shape to fluid may encourage your front 3 to defend a bit more, but that depends on their attributes. 

[Rashidi]

Tactically a disaster waiting to happen with absolute little to no screen on the flanks. Requires a change of roles and duties to the players meant to be guarding the flanks.  And your Tis are just going to exacerbate those risks

[sporadicsmiles]

As noted, what are the point of the playmakers in this tactic? Why do you need two of them in midfield? This is not a tactic where you are going to want to dally with the ball in midfield, you will be eaten alive on the counter if you do that and give away possession cheaply. Are you using this tactic simply because you have heard that it is effective in this year's ME, or do you have a specific plan? If so, what is the plan and how do those roles help you achieve it?

For me, a tactic like this is built to be direct and long. You want to get the ball to your forwards as quickly as possible, and preferably after winning the ball in your own half (so the AI has committed men forward and left space for the 3 strikers to exploit). You are extremely weak on the flanks, and do not have cover, so you are going to be attacked like hell back there (you are PSG, buy extremely good CBs). You will score a lot, and concede a lot with this tactic. You can try to make it slightly more solid by using your midfield almost entirely as a screen for the centre and the flanks, to provide defensive cover. You really do not need to worry about getting players forward quickly here to support the attack on a break, you will have 3 advanced players who can support themselves.

This is definitely not a balanced team shape.

[Liamgannon]

On 07/05/2018 at 04:42, Rashidi said:

Tactically a disaster waiting to happen with absolute little to no screen on the flanks. Requires a change of roles and duties to the players meant to be guarding the flanks.  And your Tis are just going to exacerbate those risks

interesting to hear you say that. What i should have done is given you a bit of context as to how i'm performing in the game. I'm in my 4th season now. Last season in the league this tactic conceded 17 goals and scored 121 goals. That needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, after all this is the French league we're talking about! but I did win the CL beating R. Madrid in the final. Out of 3 whole seasons i've won the league each time and the CL in two of 3 seasons. Plus won all the cups bar one with the World club championship. 

But you're right, this tactic isn't necessarily the most solid of tactics i've created. But i wanted to create something ala 90's Newcastle e.g. you score 4 and we'll score 5. Only difference being is that this tactic is a lot more solid then i thought it would be. 

The reason for having all strikers on attack is that i want them to always be ready to receive the ball in positions where they are high up the field. 

And the reason why i am using 2 play makers in the midfield strata is because i have ticked the pass into space team instruction. As my front 3 possess unbelievable off the ball stats, Rabiot and Veratti and constantly threading balls over the top for the strikers to run on to. This is the style of play that i want, coupled with the fact that my 2 ball playing CB's are asked to do the same, this tactic doesn't build up play from the back, hence why my midfield is very rarely caught out of possession as this tactic isn't about aimlessly passing the ball around the edge of the opponents box meaning we don't often get caught on the break. 

One thing i will say though, i'm not sure whether the quality of my players is why this tactic performs so well, but given the times when i do field young inexperienced players, i have a feeling that it is more to do with the tactic than the players.

I will try and make my 2 wider CMs more defensive, but then it can't be at the cost of them not playing direct balls into the attackers. 

Out of interest - what would you change the roles and duties to? 

[Liamgannon]

On 07/05/2018 at 08:08, sporadicsmiles said:

As noted, what are the point of the playmakers in this tactic? Why do you need two of them in midfield? This is not a tactic where you are going to want to dally with the ball in midfield, you will be eaten alive on the counter if you do that and give away possession cheaply. Are you using this tactic simply because you have heard that it is effective in this year's ME, or do you have a specific plan? If so, what is the plan and how do those roles help you achieve it?

For me, a tactic like this is built to be direct and long. You want to get the ball to your forwards as quickly as possible, and preferably after winning the ball in your own half (so the AI has committed men forward and left space for the 3 strikers to exploit). You are extremely weak on the flanks, and do not have cover, so you are going to be attacked like hell back there (you are PSG, buy extremely good CBs). You will score a lot, and concede a lot with this tactic. You can try to make it slightly more solid by using your midfield almost entirely as a screen for the centre and the flanks, to provide defensive cover. You really do not need to worry about getting players forward quickly here to support the attack on a break, you will have 3 advanced players who can support themselves.

This is definitely not a balanced team shape.

the point of playmakers in this tactic is to put through balls to the 3 strikers. I use the instruction of pass into space, so both midfielders will always look to hit the ball over the top of the opponents defence.

Both MC players possess good passing and creativity so i don't want them to play tikka takka, i want them to play direct fast football, which is what they do. 

In a similar vain, the ball winning CB's do the same, when my midfielders are outnumbered and there aren't many passing options to them, in theory, the CBs should bypass midfield and hit balls direct to the strikers. 

The reason i use Neymar as a trequartista is not for the playmaking abilities, but because i want him to sit deep to draw the defence out so the AFs either side of him have space to run into. 

My tactic may look a bit confusing on paper, but when you watch it play it is a glorious thing to watch. Quick incisive football, great varied goals, and boy do we love a volley! 

The most surprising part is that it's also fairly solid, i mean i've seen better before, but that was boring to watch, too many 1-0's - this is definitely not that kind of tactic. 

It may not look like it, but each of the roles do compliment each other, i will give the feedback a go but just hoping it doesn't affect the potency of the attacking play. 

[Liamgannon]

On 04/05/2018 at 20:53, z464 said:

Looks like you try to get the ball back asap to create attack . 

 

IMO

You have 3 playmakers ( DLP, AP , Trequartista ) , that means when you get  the ball back other teammates will look for thess 3 playmakers first which slow down your attack . 

If I want to do attack I will change both Verratti and Raboit to Cm's . Now Neymar is the only target man and let him create attack . 

this would change the way my team scores goals, i want the two CMs to play balls over the top, Neymar won't be deep enough in the Treq role to do this alone, hence why my outer CMs and 2 ball playing CBs are tasked with this job role. 

[Liamgannon]

I'd be happy to upload the tactic if anyone wants to see how it performs in virtual real life

[ThePoacher]

Is this an example of the FM18 three striker exploit I have been hearing about?

[gaz12321]

In the topic you ask for help to improve the tactic and then when people give their opinions about it you shoot them down and tell them how amazing it performs. I'm really confused.

 

On the face of it the tactic looks unbalanced and very open. How you don't get destroyed down the flanks, especially against a team like Real Madrid who will usually have attacking wing backs overlapping inside forwards, is baffling. Having said that, both teams will effectively just be fighting fire with fire.

[Liamgannon]

1 hour ago, gaz12321 said:

In the topic you ask for help to improve the tactic and then when people give their opinions about it you shoot them down and tell them how amazing it performs. I'm really confused.

 

On the face of it the tactic looks unbalanced and very open. How you don't get destroyed down the flanks, especially against a team like Real Madrid who will usually have attacking wing backs overlapping inside forwards, is baffling. Having said that, both teams will effectively just be fighting fire with fire.

I’ve already admitted I should have provided some context as to how the tactic plays. 

As for not listening to advice, I stated I would try and make the midfield flanks a bit more defensive. 

Yes people have given their opinion, which I asked for I might add, but they were talking in hypertheticals, of course I’m going to counter what they are saying if I know the opposite to be true. 

Maybe I should have called the thread, this is an amazing tactic - help me improve it 

[z464]

3 hours ago, Liamgannon said:

this would change the way my team scores goals, i want the two CMs to play balls over the top, Neymar won't be deep enough in the Treq role to do this alone, hence why my outer CMs and 2 ball playing CBs are tasked with this job role. 

I will use standard or control instead attack then . 

 

Attack tempo is  high / fast  ,but with 3 playmakers are slow down the attack tempo which is conflict imo . 

 

[Liamgannon]

Good shout, not even tried testing the tactic with another mentality, not even to manage a game out that I’m winning in. 

[Liamgannon]

Had the most amazing season with this tactic, winning all 7 competitions available!!

Wasn't my best league performance in terms of points, goals scored or conceded but still pretty good considering i was blooding a lot of youth players

I love tactics with 3 up front, always have, always will. This is the best tactic i've created in terms of scoring goals. 60, 54 and 52 goals scored respectively for Neymar, Dolberg and Mbappe. Special mention to Mbappe and Dolberg too, 44 assists apiece is absolutely staggering. This tactic combines them both into some sort of hybrid goal machine / winger

Results weren't bad either, only 4 defeats and 3 draws all season. 

Rashidi stated earlier in the thread "Tactically a disaster waiting to happen with absolute little to no screen on the flanks. Requires a change of roles and duties to the players meant to be guarding the flanks.  And your Tis are just going to exacerbate those risks" which just goes to show that even the best can get it wrong from time to time 

[summatsupeer]

So this has gone from a "advice please" to "didn't need help anyway" gloating topic because of results with PSG?  Congrats you did the expected and won the league and the only real "big" team you beat in champions league was Bayern which is pot luck after a few seasons with how they chop and change managers.  Would of been more impressive if you had come up against Real, Barce, Juve etc but you can only beat whats in front of you. 

The advice given was perfectly sound, hopefully your a tactical genius now and don't need to post for help again cos I doubt Rashidi and people will try and offer you advice again.

[Liamgannon]

13 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

 "Would of been more impressive if you had come up against Real, Barce, Juve etc but you can only beat whats in front of you. "

what you mean like this? this was the previous season CL final against Real Madrid

 

[Liamgannon]

Yeah you can only beat what's in front of you, how about smashing Bayern 9-0 at home. 

But then i suppose you can only beat what's in front of you. Love how people get so protective over the moderators, like they are some sort of holy deity. Their opinions aren't gospel you know. I've been playing this game well over 20 years. 

[Liamgannon]

23 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

So this has gone from a "advice please" to "didn't need help anyway" gloating topic because of results with PSG?  Congrats you did the expected and won the league and the only real "big" team you beat in champions league was Bayern which is pot luck after a few seasons with how they chop and change managers.  Would of been more impressive if you had come up against Real, Barce, Juve etc but you can only beat whats in front of you. 

The advice given was perfectly sound, hopefully your a tactical genius now and don't need to post for help again cos I doubt Rashidi and people will try and offer you advice again.

final point, nowhere in this thread did i say my team was rubbish. If people want to assume i'm struggling then so be it, and if the solutions they offer me are also predicated on the belief that i'm struggling then more fool them, just shows they've been burned twice. 

"The advice given was perfectly sound, hopefully your a tactical genius now and don't need to post for help again cos I doubt Rashidi and people will try and offer you advice again."

And now you speak for the whole FM community. Wow someone has a high opinion of themselves 

[summatsupeer]

Not really, just common sense that people don't like being setup by people pretending to want "feedback" only for them to basically laugh in there face and that you've "burned" them.  Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?

[Liamgannon]

2 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

Not really, just common sense that people don't like being setup by people pretending to want "feedback" only for them to basically laugh in there face and that you've "burned" them.  Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?

and have you ever heard of the boy that cried on behalf of others, you being the 'boy' and Rashidi being the 'other'

[GaurMechanical]

This is a tactic based more around exploiting the match engine than any kind of realistic tactical theory. Not that I particularly care if that's what you want to do, but to win everything with PSG using something the match engine this year struggles to cope with is hardly noteworthy.

[summatsupeer]

3 minutes ago, Liamgannon said:

and have you ever heard of the boy that cried on behalf of others, you being the 'boy' and Rashidi being the 'other'

Wow you really don't get the moral of that kids story?!? LOL!

I've wasted enough time here, have fun gloating about your success with one of the biggest richest clubs in the world! Goodbye.

[Liamgannon]

1 minute ago, summatsupeer said:

Wow you really don't get the moral of that kids story?!? LOL!

I've wasted enough time here, have fun gloating about your success with one of the biggest richest clubs in the world! Goodbye.

thanks for stopping by. 

[Liamgannon]

27 minutes ago, GaurMechanical said:

This is a tactic based more around exploiting the match engine than any kind of realistic tactical theory. Not that I particularly care if that's what you want to do, but to win everything with PSG using something the match engine this year struggles to cope with is hardly noteworthy.

The match engine will always struggle to cope with any given type of goal in any series that is produced. What’s new? I’m playing a game set within  parameters that I have no control over. 

This tactic is how I like to set teams up, regardless of which version I play - I pay my money so why should I change? 

So called experts have said this tactic will concede lots of goals, I’ve proven that to be false. 

Maybe it was a bit mishevious to start a thread like this, but it just goes to show, even the so called experts could learn a thing or two. 

And to say this tactic isn’t built around any tactical theory is wrong. Lots of teams in real life play like this, just watch any top team in the CL over the last 10 years. 

[FlairRA]

52 minutes ago, Liamgannon said:

The match engine will always struggle to cope with any given type of goal in any series that is produced. What’s new? I’m playing a game set within  parameters that I have no control over. 

This tactic is how I like to set teams up, regardless of which version I play - I pay my money so why should I change? 

So called experts have said this tactic will concede lots of goals, I’ve proven that to be false. 

Maybe it was a bit mishevious to start a thread like this, but it just goes to show, even the so called experts could learn a thing or two. 

And to say this tactic isn’t built around any tactical theory is wrong. Lots of teams in real life play like this, just watch any top team in the CL over the last 10 years. 

Looking specifically at 3 strikers, with all respect I don't believe any team in real life uses three strikers consistently, especially to the point where they are winning multiple champions leagues. Your results are absolutely amazing but I would have to disagree that any team in real life plays with three strikers, all in the ST position providing little to no defensive cover for the fullbacks especially if they are attacking. Not even Real Madrid to take an example, they are successful in a 4-4-2 while in a 4-3-3 Ronaldo and Benzema can be considered strikers, but Bale/Vazquez certainly cannot in my opinion. Any examples of top teams in the CL using 3 strikers in the last 10 years? Barcelona played a 4-3-3 with wingers, so as your formation is your defensive shape they are wingers not strikers. I'd be interested to hear your reply, winning 9-0 vs Bayern is impressive though! 

[Liamgannon]

The shape of my team with 3 strikers up top is misleading. Mbappe and Dolberg play like a hybrid of two roles, yes they play like advanced forwards, but they also play like wingers.  Hence why they’ve both got over 40 goals and 40 assists to their names. 

Whilst my strikers only press in certain areas it’s a misconception to suggest they don’t track back at all. 

My wing backs press high up the pitch, which actually condenses the amount of space the wide strikers are asked to come back into. If my full backs and defensive line was deep, the wide strikers would have to cover more ground. But as my team pushes high up, the strikers are afforded the luxury of only having to track back to the half way line. And to be honest, they often win the ball back before they even get to the half way line.  

I’d say this tactic is a mix of Barca and r.madrid in their pomp. It’s more like Barca in regards to team shake, but more like r.madrid in terms of its direct play. This isn’t a tikka takka tactic. 

To be honest, as much as I can describe how my teams plays, the real beauty is seeing how it all works in action. 

If you’re interested I’d be happy to upload the save so you can see for yourself. 

[FlairRA]

My concern was more how you said top teams replicate this tactic in the past 10 years, based on real life.  I certainly see how your strikers pull wide with the 'Move Into Channels instruction and them being in the STCR and STCL positions, I'm just not sure whether it really replicates Barcelona, where the wingers would hug the touchlines and then cut inside only when they reached the final third, which seems the opposite of what Dolberg and Mbappe do. Along with other things. That being said I would have to see your save and unfortunately I don't have the inclination to do that, so I can't see the beauty of the system as you outlined. It gets you some excellent results however, nice! 

[Liamgannon]

Yeah fair do’s. And to be totally frank, it would be hard to replicate any teams play IRL using this match engine but I suppose we can only work with the tools we have. 

[herne79]

@Liamgannon This forum is for tactical discussion and help.  It's not for bragging about a fantastic tactic and it's certainly not for childish name calling.

Any more of the latter and I'll simply lock the thread.