Less "black and white" player-manager interaction

[thizaum]

I've recently had a very unfair (in my opinion) run of unhappy players due to player-manager interaction.

First of all, I really like the intention to have an AI mimicking human reactions and interactions. But I get the impression that they are now too "black and white" (the outcome is too binary, the players either drops it or wants to kill you) and with the introduction of squad harmony, they carry a lot of weight on the club atmosphere.

As I know human reactions are far too hard to mimic, why not have more "shades of grey" outcomes? And clearer (better explained) ones.

You should be able to explain a little better to a high potential young player what your plan for him is, or you should be able to explain to the squad that the replacement you've signed for a player will be better for the team (or at least, ask for a time to show it).

And mainly, allow you to speak with unhappy players. You cannot speak to him, you cannot offer him a contract. I've seen plenty of posts here about using "time" to fix these issues, but shouldn't be always the case.

 

 

 

[Kanwulf]

A couple of annoyances for me are:

 

When congratulating a player on his first cap, more often than not, he will tell me he doesn’t need to be patronised...... is that REALLY that realistic?

 

Another one is when a player forces a transfer away from your club then the rest of the team complain to you, why is there now “Player X wanted to leave so I had no choice” option?

[HUNT3R]

7 minutes ago, Kanwulf said:

When congratulating a player on his first cap, more often than not, he will tell me he doesn’t need to be patronised...... is that REALLY that realistic?

Him saying that? No. Him thinking it. Yes.

FM is just not hiding it from us.

[enigmatic]

20 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Him saying that? No. Him thinking it. Yes.

FM is just not hiding it from us.

I think the real life negative outcome tends to be a player being totally uninterested in the congratulations, not losing morale and acquiring a small permanent dislike of the manager as a result of them saying a quick "well done"...

 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, enigmatic said:

I think the real life negative outcome tends to be a player being totally uninterested in the congratulations, not losing morale and acquiring a small permanent dislike of the manager as a result of them saying a quick "well done"...

 

It's more along the lines of "meh, who cares what you think, manager?" thoughts, so they're not respecting you.

I've not once had an issue with this once I've become an established manager with a suitable reputation for my club. I have had issues with players not respecting me when I've made a fair jump up to manage a club who's taking a chance on me really, so I was punching above my weight. Understandably, it took a while before I was able to prove myself (increased rep etc) and so gained the respect of the players.

[enigmatic]

yeah, but I think the OP is right that the mechanism is fundamentally implausible and overly black and white

Players who don't have any reason to respect their inexperienced manager IRL might sneer at team talks, back their teammates' complaints and be very keen to engineer a move away regardless of what the manager says, and they might think "meh" when they receive a compliment, but they generally don't get so upset by an appropriately timed compliment their morale suffers and their relationship is permanently slightly damaged (which is the standard FM "negative interaction" outcome)

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

yeah, but I think the OP is right that the mechanism is fundamentally implausible and overly black and white

Players who don't have any reason to respect their inexperienced manager IRL might sneer at team talks, back their teammates' complaints and be very keen to engineer a move away regardless of what the manager says, and they might think "meh" when they receive a compliment, but they generally don't get so upset by an appropriately timed compliment their morale suffers and their relationship is permanently slightly damaged (which is the standard FM "negative interaction" outcome)

Yeah, overall I agree. I just disagree with those congratulate talks as there needs to be a positive and negative possible outcome, otherwise, what's the point from a gameplay perspective? Especially where a player is trying to engineer a move away, more possibilities and conversation opportunities and outcomes are going to be very welcome.

[thizaum]

22 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Yeah, overall I agree. I just disagree with those congratulate talks as there needs to be a positive and negative possible outcome, otherwise, what's the point from a gameplay perspective? Especially where a player is trying to engineer a move away, more possibilities and conversation opportunities and outcomes are going to be very welcome.

I think that, in this case (congratulating a first cap) the possible outcomes should be:

- increase in the player/manager bond + increase in morale (lighter grey);

- slight increase in morale (less light grey);

- nothing (grey)

- slight decrease in morale (a little darker grey).

 

To me, this is a interaction of little importance, so it shouldn't bear important outcomes, with the most probable one being "nothing". That's the kind of thing that IRL would sum up with other 5 or 8 things to make the manager become favourite personnel with the player.

Again, this is a great example of the outcomes in the interaction carrying too much weight.

[月光下告白]

good idea

[Neil Brock]

Reviewed so locked.