Caixa Futebol Academy: Youth Development & Adapting Tactics

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Hope everybody is staying healthy  Just to say that I do have another update ready, but my imgur account is currently showing an error message. It's happened before and cleared up after a few days so should hopefully be repaired shortly 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Hmmm.. OK, so imgur account still down and I am starting to get further ahead in-game so I am going to give a brief update uploading images directly.

 

Mid-Season 2020/21 Update

As touched upon in earlier updates, 2020/21 is tactical transition towards the longer-term, Very Fluid playing style which has been my preference for many years. Experimenting a bit but I this has been the typical template.

This may look remarkably similar to last season but the switch in shape has two prominent effects:

1. Mentality Structure
   • Individual mentalities are now strongly oriented towards the Control team mentality; rather than their Duty or Position.
   • Defenders become more expansive, attackers taper off a bit and the team becomes more compact.
2. Creative Freedom
   • Decision making shifts from strictly following our tactical structure, to having a high degree of individual freedom and autonomy.

For those following along, the mentality structure shift is noticeable:
 

Before:                          After:
(Highly Structured)              (Very Fluid)

        17                               15
13              13               12              12
    15      10                       15      12
        6                                11
13   6      6   13               12  11      11  12
        6                                11

These changes amount to the way I would define the shift from the more structured Juego de Pocision style toward the more fluid Total Football style of play.

Early signs are positive, but a transition never the less:

At the mid-point in the league, we are still top (all we have to do is show up at the moment) but a few draws and defeats have left chinks in the armour.

Those interested in possession, we have bumped a bit - actually lots of 60%+ when the first team play, but I have rotated a lot more in order to build the squad and offer some rest after a busy summer with the national team.

Similar story in Europe.

The big news of the season was the biggest almost transfer of my life.. 

I wasn't on the market at all until this came up:

Extremely unusual for me to be looking at this kind of deal, but the romanticism of a final opportunity to sign a 33 year old Messi and running out next season in the newly expanded stadium was too much to refuse.

Despite saving the transfer fee, we would have to have paid £350-500k per week; alongside most of the squad needing new contracts. It would have been a huge stretch financially but I am getting £100m+ offers for Xadas and Messi could have taken his place on the left side of midfield.

At 33 he's easily the best playmaker in the World, by some way, and I'd have been very interested transition him into a deeper role in an attempt to get 2-3 more years out of him.

Never the less, it was not to be. He signed a 3-year £525k per week contract with Barcelona on the 29th December.. with a £133m release clause, but - sadly - that's going to be multiple steps too far 

Probably for the best, but disappointing none-the-less.

In something of a rebound transfer, we did go ahead and complete another pretty gigantic transfer anyway.

Real Madrid weren't playing him and let his contract run down. We actually agreed a free-transfer but then took the option to make it 6-months early for £3.7m.

Needless to say, he's a serious addition to the squad. Needs tutoring and some game-time to rebuild confidence, then the sky is the limit; could challenge - or even join - the first team, or if not surely there's a £100m+ profit potential here.

First, he needs whipping into shape 

 

Elsewhere..

On we go..

[palmamiguel92]

Are you still using FM18 mate?

[axehan1]

That is FM18.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

3 hours ago, palmamiguel92 said:

Are you still using FM18 mate?

Yea 

[palmamiguel92]

25 minutos atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

Yea 

How do you find the Shadow Striker? is it better suited to recreate a second striker on the likes of Felix, playing between lines in a 442?

[MadOnion]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! can you update the squad DNA? At what point did you decide going very-fluid? After winning the CL a few times in a row or do you set a baseline for the core attributes before going more fluid?

Edited April 12, 2020 by MadOnion

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

https://trainingground.guru/articles/pedro-marques-the-four-pillars-of-benficas-academy

[palmamiguel92]

I guess if Semedo is there, Lindelof could be there too

[tkwongerball]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! curious if you would be using shorter passing or much shorter passing for your benfica team if you were in fm 20?

[axehan1]

9 hours ago, tkwongerball said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! curious if you would be using shorter passing or much shorter passing for your benfica team if you were in fm 20?

I think if you were trying some form of possession based system then shorter passing(maybe much shorter),play out of defence and work ball in to box would be high on your list of TI's.

I have pass into space added to that as I do want a bit of attacking intent or at least train a couple of your better players with the PI of tries killer balls often.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

12 hours ago, axehan1 said:

I think if you were trying some form of possession based system then shorter passing(maybe much shorter),play out of defence and work ball in to box would be high on your list of TI's.

I have pass into space added to that as I do want a bit of attacking intent or at least train a couple of your better players with the PI of tries killer balls often.

Yea, that's basically it. I'd suggest watching a couple of games with Shorter passing and then a couple with Much Shorter passing to see if you notice a difference and go with whichever you prefer. Honestly, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference. It's really splitting hairs; even by my obsessive standards! 

My imgur account is still down which is annoying for continuing updates. I've finished the season and taking a bit of a break experimenting with some fun ideas with PSG but will update as soon as I can upload images 

[ElJefe4]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Hi mate, I've had a quick scan through this thread and it looks really good. Will definitely be reading through start to finish over the weekend. Your Cruyff 3-4-3 inspired me to see if I can get a similar system working in FM20. Quick question on it, did you ever struggle for chances/goals? My Valencia team has failed to score in 6 of the last 8. Have decent amount of possession but struggle to create any chances from open play. I'm reliant on set pieces and the odd cross from winger to winger. I know the match engine is probably very different, but just wondered if you ever experienced similar issues with the system in general? 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

OK, so the Imgur account is back up and running. Turns out I was put on to some kind of beta for new changes, which clearly aren't working very well!  This feels like quite a long time ago now, so please excuse any vagueness.

2020/21 End of Season Update

The over-arching narrative of the season was a feeling of transition.

Namely the tactical transition from Very Structured to Very Fluid - relaxing some of our tactical structure, in order to give players more autonomy and freedom to express themselves - whilst the first team transitioned from up and coming wonderkids to established top-class players, and the broader squad took a more prominent role to compensate for the increased demand on the first team. Not to mention the stadium expansion on the way.

In the first half of the season we uncharacteristically dropped points.

We came back strong in the second half of the season, unsurprisingly winning the league again.

The highlight in Europe was a comprehensive defeat of star-studded Paris Saint-Germain in the first knockout.

We then edged Jose Mourinho's tough Manchester United side in the quarter final.

But were shocked by a thrilling clash with Bayer Leverkusen, who were one of the underdog stories of the season; shorn of quite a few of their talented youngsters and with an unheard of (to me, at least) coach.

Sadly their story came to a - somewhat predictable? - end, being stomped by Real Madrid.

A very fitting end to the career of Cristiano Ronaldo at 36 years old, with his last ever goals bringing another Champions League for Real Madrid and another Champions League for Carlo Ancelotti. He's not announced his retirement, but his £600k expires in a few week's time so interesting to see what comes next. He managed 39 goals in his final season, including 12 in the Champions League 

So.. where does this leave us?

Caixa Academy finds another gear..

Failure to retain the Champions League was disappointing. We were/are the most complete side in Europe by some way but it is always difficult to keep a run of success going, particularly beyond that 3-year mark.

Beyond that the club has every reason to be excited.

Starting from the foundations, the academy and scouting network have produced an under-19 side brimming with potential.

Benfica B also boasts talent which is competing for the fringes of the first team.

Whilst most of the first team are hitting their peak..

..and the broader first team squad have certainly benefited from increased game time.

Perhaps most exciting amongst the talent coming through, observant amongst you may have noticed a 15-year old Brazilian talent who has forced his way into consideration within the first team ranks.

Introducing Gílson César Leão..

Gílson César Leão is an exciting academy prospect, who came through our links with Atlético Paranaense in Brazil.

This has been part of an ongoing effort to establish links with feeder clubs from top talent producing countries around the world, as a means of getting talented players younger rather than having to wait until they are 18 to sign them.

So far we have built up links with:

• Atlético Paranaense in Brazil
• Goiás in Brazil
• Estudiantes in Argentina
• Milionarios in Colombia
• Various African clubs

We are signing up 1 or 2 each season and plan to continue expanding on this as aggressively as possible.

Leão was originally promoted as a left winger, due to an injury to Trincão for a cup match but this performance and ongoing form meant he has stayed and been used as the Mezzala, Shadow Striker, Winger and Inside Forward at different times.

So far he is tearing up the record books..

Man of the Match in 4 of his 8 first team matches with 6 league goals and 4 assists. He's giving me an interesting conundrum of how best to use him.

I've been guilty of getting too excited, too early about young players in the past so I am going to give him more time next season - most likely from midfield, or playing in a front 2 with João Felix - and see how he does before making any rash decisions. Also wary that my coach opinion of Potential Ability seems to vary dramatically during a player's first season or two.

Anyway, I have got some negotiations to attend to. Time to go and quadruple our wage bill..

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Taking some time to respond back to some of the older questions, which I have overlooked. Sorry, busy... being locked in my house. No excuse really! 
 

On 12/04/2020 at 19:25, palmamiguel92 said:

How do you find the Shadow Striker? is it better suited to recreate a second striker on the likes of Felix, playing between lines in a 442?

I love it. I've preferred it as something along the lines of Messi's False 9 role under Pep at Barcelona since I played as them a few years ago.

João Felix is of a similar mould; a creative, technical, intelligent striker who can create and score.

So far Felix has very much been the focal point of my attack but I am thinking about how I use Jota and Umaro Embalo lately. I plan to make a more detailed post about them but Jota is the more creative, tricky winger whereas Embalo has become more quick, powerful and direct.

I think I could get more out of them, particularly against packed defences.

Currently experimenting with a few different attacking shapes in another save and really enjoying a few of them so working on a couple of ideas.

 

On 12/04/2020 at 19:48, MadOnion said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! can you update the squad DNA? At what point did you decide going very-fluid? After winning the CL a few times in a row or do you set a baseline for the core attributes before going more fluid?

In a nutshell, I am looking closely at:

• Decisions and Anticipation across the team.
• Technical ability of defensive players as Very Fluid makes them more involved in build up.
• Work rate and stamina of attackers as Very Fluid very much has them even more involved in pressing.

See previous post on mentality structure explaining why defenders and attackers are more involved with general play.

I used Very Fluid when the majority of my first team was available, and went more Structured as I experimented with younger players. I do find structure makes young players performances much better.

 

22 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Hi mate, I've had a quick scan through this thread and it looks really good. Will definitely be reading through start to finish over the weekend. Your Cruyff 3-4-3 inspired me to see if I can get a similar system working in FM20. Quick question on it, did you ever struggle for chances/goals? My Valencia team has failed to score in 6 of the last 8. Have decent amount of possession but struggle to create any chances from open play. I'm reliant on set pieces and the odd cross from winger to winger. I know the match engine is probably very different, but just wondered if you ever experienced similar issues with the system in general? 

Yea if you look at the first season. when the team was mostly 16-18 years old, we used Highly Structured Control to dominate possession and control games but did undeniably struggle for goals.

Averaged around 1 per game but fortunately the possession meant we rarely conceded.

It's certainly swings and roundabouts.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[palmamiguel92]

I find that inverted wingers (wide open, then cutting inside) on pair with inverted wing backs are one way to go against tight defences. If you can squeeze in a Mezalla making runs good too

Edited April 25, 2020 by palmamiguel92

[palmamiguel92]

Anyway, i would like your take on this

 

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/jorge-jesus-flamengo-2019-tactical-analysis-tactics

 

How would it be on FM?

[tkwongerball]

One problem I notice playing with a shadow striker up front is that he loses the ball too often in the middle of the park due to his tendency to drive forward with the ball and have no real passing options in front of him. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

13 hours ago, palmamiguel92 said:

Anyway, i would like your take on this

 

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/jorge-jesus-flamengo-2019-tactical-analysis-tactics

 

How would it be on FM?

Ohh, thank you for sharing. Fascinating article. "..brought the missing tactics in Brazilian football from Europe: high-intensity pressing, discipline, tactical knowledge, and awareness" - what a line that is. The comment about purchasing players experienced in Europe is a great insight.

Funnily enough, before starting this Benfica save Flamengo were my second choice but for some reason they do not play at the Maracana in FM2018 which put me off.

Looking at this with the caveat that I really haven't seen much of them, so going purely from this article.

Playing Style

Quote

Jorge Jesus’s tactics consist of fast-paced, high mobility, attractive attacking football.

Fairly straight forward; I'd start with an Attacking team mentality.

If we're talking FM2018 or older, I'd combine that with Fluid team shape for that movement, freedom and cohesion.

Structure

Quote

Jesus’s favourite formation is the classic 4-4-2 with high-mobility, intensive pressure high up the pitch, and good ball circulation. These attributes allow Jesus to tweak its formation to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 on some occasions, but they all derive from the basic 4-4-2.

With this in mind, I'd start with a 4-4-2 and then work out the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 from there.

Building on that, I'd be looking at lots of Support roles across the team. In FM2020 terms, I'd want as many players on 'Positive' as possible and perhaps just Gabriel Barbosa on Attack. Attacking duty, combined with Attack mentality and Fluid is a pretty extreme combination, so I would use that with extreme caution.

I'd need to play around and experiment with the specific roles.

Good luck 

[palmamiguel92]

4 horas atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

Ohh, thank you for sharing. Fascinating article. "..brought the missing tactics in Brazilian football from Europe: high-intensity pressing, discipline, tactical knowledge, and awareness" - what a line that is. The comment about purchasing players experienced in Europe is a great insight.

Funnily enough, before starting this Benfica save Flamengo were my second choice but for some reason they do not play at the Maracana in FM2018 which put me off.

Looking at this with the caveat that I really haven't seen much of them, so going purely from this article.

Playing Style

Fairly straight forward; I'd start with an Attacking team mentality.

If we're talking FM2018 or older, I'd combine that with Fluid team shape for that movement, freedom and cohesion.

Structure

With this in mind, I'd start with a 4-4-2 and then work out the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 from there.

Building on that, I'd be looking at lots of Support roles across the team. In FM2020 terms, I'd want as many players on 'Positive' as possible and perhaps just Gabriel Barbosa on Attack. Attacking duty, combined with Attack mentality and Fluid is a pretty extreme combination, so I would use that with extreme caution.

I'd need to play around and experiment with the specific roles.

Good luck 

I have got myself down to this. Why the 4-1-3-2, well, when they start their build up the number 6 drops between the central defenders, whilst the 8 and the wingers sit in front of him in a line of 3 mids. Also the first pressing phase sees the 8 closing down with the attackers, not always though, but he will try to press the opponents defensive midfielder, if it's a solo guy. My only difficulty is with the wingers really. I find that the inverted wingers or wide playmakers, they don't come inside as much as i wanted, during the build phase i mean. For example, seeing a Flamengo game, imagine the ball is going for a throw in on the right, we see the team compact very close to the ball, and the left winger shows up almost on right aswell, sitting narrow with the rest of the team, i tried using a mezzala,but he sits to much in the middle even with the team playing max wide

[MadOnion]

The 442 hybrid JJ's teams employ don't differ much from Wenger's team in the early 2000s.

I'd offset one of the strikers. One of the fullbacks tend to be more conservative. One winger is more one-dimensional, whereas the other is more creative or a goal scorer.

Beautiful to watch when the system and players click.

[palmamiguel92]

15 minutos atrás, MadOnion disse:

The 442 hybrid JJ's teams employ don't differ much from Wenger's team in the early 2000s.

I'd offset one of the strikers. One of the fullbacks tend to be more conservative. One winger is more one-dimensional, whereas the other is more creative or a goal scorer.

Beautiful to watch when the system and players click.

the wingers he has been changing that in recent years. In Sporting for example he used both Bryan Ruiz and Bruno Cesar as wingers at the same time. Then came Gelson and he his tradition winger, although he did lots of inside to outside movements

[JIPI1]

6 hours ago, palmamiguel92 said:

I have got myself down to this. Why the 4-1-3-2, well, when they start their build up the number 6 drops between the central defenders, whilst the 8 and the wingers sit in front of him in a line of 3 mids. Also the first pressing phase sees the 8 closing down with the attackers, not always though, but he will try to press the opponents defensive midfielder, if it's a solo guy. My only difficulty is with the wingers really. I find that the inverted wingers or wide playmakers, they don't come inside as much as i wanted, during the build phase i mean. For example, seeing a Flamengo game, imagine the ball is going for a throw in on the right, we see the team compact very close to the ball, and the left winger shows up almost on right aswell, sitting narrow with the rest of the team, i tried using a mezzala,but he sits to much in the middle even with the team playing max wide

I wouldn’t dare question a FM legend like O-zil, but the JJ I know from years and years here in Portugal deploys a structured rigid system. The same principles as he mentioned apply. The thing is, off the ball he demands very specific positioning, extremely disciplined, and on the ball his game principles (team instructions) derive from that defensive discipline altogether). I think that can be achieved by choosing the correct roles. He did enjoy playmakers, but his attacking play is anything but slow and controlled. Doesn’t shy away from playing out of the back and using shorter passing, but he is one to demand maximum intensity (think Klopp or Simeone) in his offensive approach. I would personally start with more generic roles that can offer you the shape (4-4-2 or 4-1-3-2) in defence and then mound that so that you can both:

1) Fight for possession as high and aggressively as possible;

2) Hold a compact and structured shape in defence;

3) Throw bodies forward like mad dogs, with runners on both flanks (can perfectly well be one wingback and a winger), a runner on the middle, supporting movement and hold up up front, and presence in the area for cutbacks and one/twos.

So O-sim already laid all the match engine relevant considerations, let’s get to work people!

[palmamiguel92]

Oooh i'm on to something

[AndersAas]

On 02/04/2020 at 13:26, AndersAas said:

Thanks for the quick reply. My initial set-up (copying your latest FM18 tactics) were the same.

I find among other things that the overlap (wb version) and underlap (IWB version) lowers the AML/R mentality and hightens the WB/IWB mentality, needed to make it more compact. What I find amusing is that putting the defensive line to much lower an the line of engament to much higher, actullay does not change the mentality of the players. But obvs will contribute to more/less compactness. I will continue to see if changing other TIs will change something, and try these two tactics in my current save game. As far as I can understand it`s either changing player roles or TIs that can change CF and/or roaming that contributes in the following to the fluidity of the tactic. I tried changing different PIs but that does not change the mentality of a player, and you dont have any other way of changing the CF of a player besides the "take more risks" PI.

To create your usual style of play, I will make the tactics with much shorter passing (emulating retain possesion),pass into space, play out of defence, exploit the middle, standard def line and line of engagement, extremely urgent pressing intensity.
For the WB version obvs overlap, and for the "Pep" version underlap + extremely wide attacking width.

For PIs I will experiment with get further forward for the Wingers/IF to try to have more direct penetration because of the supporting roles, and distribute to centrebacks from the GK.

Any changes you would initially do to this setup?

I`ll let you know how it works.

Hi again, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Just wanted to give a quick update on how things are coming along.

I`ve tried to recreate with two different teams. My leage winning side in Norway, and......Benfica.

With my Norwegian side which obviously have quite a lower level when it comes to footballing intelligence I struggled with possession numbers. Putting in "Be more disciplined" helped, but that also make play more mechanic and I did not score that many goals. Same as you`ve mentioned earlier.

I`ve just started a save game with Benfica trying to basically do the same thing as you`ve done in a kind of hybrid between your two attempts. The first season will be focused on the existing squad and current ability, like you did in your first attempt. This to (hopefully) have some instant success and drive up value for the established players. At the same time I`m using the first season to put promising youngsters through individual role training who focus on work rate, teamwork and stamina. This also often gives an extra benefit of training them in new positions. AMR/L in MR/ML, AMC to ST and MC or DC to DMC.

After playing a couple of friendlies with Benfica I`m seeing a quite compact team. I haven`t neither "Be more disciplined or Expressive" as a TI. In my opinion that suits the current level of a current ability focused Benfica first XI. They have less specialists in their current squad than they did at the time of your first attempt, but not totally fluid and high creative freedom quality players yet. I`m thinking this is a golden spot in between the two for the time being. Most of your tactics is as far as mentality goes possible to recreate in FM 20, so compactness is achieveable. I`m finding that the current ME have a lot of crossing, and that  even with the low crosses TI ticked, there is a lof of "normal" crosses. This can be related to not choosing "Be more disciplined" or some PPMs. I need to look at this more.

Tactic is based on the 4-2-3-1 you used the first season on your first attempt, but with playing style based on the "core instructions" you had on page 14.
SKswbs
wbs bdpd - bpds - wbs
dmd - dlps

iws - ams - iws

dlps

 

Positive (Control) - play out of def, through the middle, shorter passing, low crosses.
Standard def line, lower line of engagement and more urgent pressing for a middle block with heavier pressing. Since it`s a 4-2-3-1 I don`t want to have extremely more urgent pressing since that can affect compactness and shape to much.

I`ll let you know how things develops.

[palmamiguel92]

https://streamable.com/jr88wa

 

here's a trademark move i want to see and got it

i'm liking the cautious mentality in terms of defensive solidity and rigid shape, but at the same time the team wins the ball and gets  deadly attack (missed the goal this tme)

[Bcfclee27]

How do you go about getting affiliate clubs all over the world to supply youth players ?

Im on a save with Sunderland and am in the championship - nearly promoted to the prem.

Is this a feature that comes available when your reputation increases or am I missing something ?

[Jean0987654321]

On 28/04/2020 at 04:18, Bcfclee27 said:

How do you go about getting affiliate clubs all over the world to supply youth players ?

Im on a save with Sunderland and am in the championship - nearly promoted to the prem.

Is this a feature that comes available when your reputation increases or am I missing something ?

You have to go to the board to request the feeder club (select the "foreign youngsters" option)

 

The alternative is too max out the facilities and recruitment along with scouting knowledge. Having a foreign Head of Youth manning the intake could help as well.

 

In my Crewe save, I was able to get a couple of Northern Irish regens due to my feeder club arrangement with a club over there.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 28/04/2020 at 09:18, Bcfclee27 said:

How do you go about getting affiliate clubs all over the world to supply youth players ?

Im on a save with Sunderland and am in the championship - nearly promoted to the prem.

Is this a feature that comes available when your reputation increases or am I missing something ?

There is some kind of qualifying factor for this option, as I have only just noticed that I do not have the same option with PSG.

It's possibly something to do with either club philosophies - i.e. developing players from the academy - or facilities, perhaps when your youth development facilities reach a certain level.

[Clean Sheet]

It happens when your board trusts you. There is a steam achievement for it as well. It happened after 2 1/2 seasons for myself.

[Adonalsium]

On 30/04/2020 at 14:24, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

There is some kind of qualifying factor for this option, as I have only just noticed that I do not have the same option with PSG.

It's possibly something to do with either club philosophies - i.e. developing players from the academy - or facilities, perhaps when your youth development facilities reach a certain level.

In FM19, I've been stuck at around 6 affiliates for about a year now. Board keeps refusing new ones. I noticed that my board (FC St. Pauli's) are very opposed to developing players through the academy - perhaps this is the reason then?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

9 hours ago, Adonalsium said:

In FM19, I've been stuck at around 6 affiliates for about a year now. Board keeps refusing new ones. I noticed that my board (FC St. Pauli's) are very opposed to developing players through the academy - perhaps this is the reason then?

Perhaps. Mine are very open to it. I seem to be allowed 2-3 requests per year so perhaps it's just a time limit.

This is a shame.

 

[FlairRA]

It could be really interesting to see Dantas and/or Luis in a Busquets type CB role, allowing you to add even more creativity to your midfield. Might not be sustainable against the CL sides but the level of play could reach another levell! 

[vrbrasa]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, did you make changes in the way you training ? I remember you are thinking in change the general and already see that you made some changes in personal too.

And still about training, how do you choose your staff? Any particular role? 

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 03/05/2020 at 09:53, FlairRA said:

It could be really interesting to see Dantas and/or Luis in a Busquets type CB role, allowing you to add even more creativity to your midfield. Might not be sustainable against the CL sides but the level of play could reach another levell! 

 Interesting idea. This is actually one of the few areas I think the post-FM18 changes to the Tactics Creator would actually help. By that I am referring to being able to use a Libero in a defensive line.

Unfortunately in FM2018 the Libero still suffers from the 'invisible wall' so - as far as I am aware, at least - it's not possible to get him to join midfield. I'd imagine it's like an inverted wingback in that you have to vacate enough space for him to move into, but I certainly am not sure what that is and am unlikely prepared a sacrifice enough of my midfield to make it work.

I do like the Ball Playing Defender role, with Dribble More - particularly for a Stopper within a 3-man defence. I have experimented with Pinto as a Covering defender flanked by two Stoppers, creating a 1-2 triangle and I do like it. Luis can play the Stopper role very well.

I'd be less likely to move Dantas mainly due to the lower influence on the game. These wide defenders get the ball 50-60 times per game, in comparison to 100-150 times as a playmaker in midfield. He's also very short..   

At the moment, I am enjoying a few experimental games in other saves. There are a few things I want to experiment with and potentially integrate into this save, but very much early days. I am almost paralysed by options at the moment, we could play almost anything so I need to be careful to keep it simple and not wind up playing some kind of 3-2-2-1-2 asymmetric, Libero, treble False 9 system 

 

On 06/05/2020 at 08:51, vrbrasa said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, did you make changes in the way you training ? I remember you are thinking in change the general and already see that you made some changes in personal too.

And still about training, how do you choose your staff? Any particular role? 

Very minimal. My approach - for some years now - has been to develop players to be as well-rounded and versatile as possible.

As such I will often train either:

• A player's weakest role.
  • Training a flamboyant playmaker as a ball-winning midfielder, for example, to round out their game.
  • Most commonly this would be a specialist playmaking role, aimed at improving their technical ability and intelligence or a defensive role.
  • Sometimes simply a weak attribute which I see as important or isn't covered in a broader training program.
• The most well-rounded role available.
  • Ball playing defenders, Complete Wingbacks, Deep Lying Playmakers, Roaming Playmakers, Complete Forwards etc.

More often than not, training a player in a new position.

Regarding staff I am not sure if there is any magic, I take the best coaches available and will have 4-5 stars in every area without much trouble.

You can see a few earlier posts about João Tralhão who started as my U-19 Manager and progressed to Head of Youth Development, combined with Rui Costa as Director of Football I have two options to bring through Professional youngsters.

Elsewhere I will look for either an Assistant or Coaches to be good at motivating and man management - because I have no time for team talks or press conferences, and another with good Tactical Knowledge for the tactics preparation meeting and opposition instructions. At PSG I spent a lot of money on Vitor Frade as Assistant Manager but he has great man management, motivating and tactical knowledge as well as being a world-class coach.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[vrbrasa]

hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, what is the big diferences you see between the overload and total football systems?  

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

7 minutes ago, vrbrasa said:

hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!, what is the big diferences you see between the overload and total football systems?  

I don't feel that I have got the Total Football system quite right, yet.

It's also very difficult to compare because the Overload system peaked in 2023, with this team:

It was mostly a squad right at the top of it's game playing extremely high-intensity football which the AI just cannot live with. This has been the case for a few versions now.

The major difference between the squads is the striker. The Overload team played with an out-and-out striker meaning it was really a 4-2-4.

This meant that I had to sell Xadas early, and João Felix was used wide; which I don't think is his best position.

Looking back, I think that in 2021 we played this:

..and 2022, this:

 

João Felix was used wide and deeper in midfield, before finding his role as a 10. Dantas was, in retrospect, asked to anchor the midfield a little too early (in his first season of first team football!). Florentino Luis only broke into the side a few seasons later. Embalo broke into the side a lot later.

Now we have an extra midfielder, so are more of a 4-3-3. I am much happier with the balance of our team; and think that most players are employed more effectively now.

We've also won 3 Champions Leagues to 1 at the same point in the earlier save.

The Juego de Posicion - Highly Structured, Control - system was heavily focused on using possession to control games and was particularly effective whilst the players were developing. It takes advantage of their technical ability, within a tightly defined structure which mitigates their - at the time - under-developed mental attributes.

This resulted in Champions League runs like this:

..and this:

This is not to take away from, easily, my best ever achievement in Football Manager, but it was a particular style built for a side with particular strengths and weaknesses and it worked.

[vrbrasa]

thank you

i trying to learn thing here

why did you move the mezzala to attack?

and about training, dis you change the intensity to heavy? i am still trying to figure out why i cant reach the same nivel as you show your guys became

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 minute ago, vrbrasa said:

thank you

i trying to learn thing here

why did you move the mezzala to attack?

and about training, dis you change the intensity to heavy? i am still trying to figure out why i cant reach the same nivel as you show your guys became

You're welcome. I love the Mezzala role. Particularly as one of the wide midfielders in a 4-3-3 as I think it links the midfield to the attack beautifully.

Depends largely on the rest of the team around it.

Firstly Team Mentality and finding balance.

• More likely to use an Attack duty in a Control team mentality, or lower.
• Then Support duty in Attack team mentality, or higher.

Also depending on the roles around him, particularly the wingback, wide forward.

In a basic 4-3-3, I want to create a 2-3-5 in attack, meaning the wingback, wide attacker and midfield, between them need to:

• Create width.
• Support in attack.
• Provide defensive cover.

Most commonly I will use, either:

• Inside Forward to support in attack.
• Wingbacks to provide width.
• Midfield to provide defensive cover.
  • So a deeper midfield trio such as HB(D), DLP(S), Mez(S), so there is still a link between midfield and attack.

Or, alternatively:

• Wingers provide width.
• Midfield attacks centrally; for example, Guardiola's "Free 8s".
  • You still need a holder, so maybe DLP(D), B2B(S) and Mez(A) or DM(D), DLP/RP(S), Mez(A)
  • May still be an Mez(S) in an Attacking team mentality.
• Inverted Wingbacks provide defensive cover.

[vrbrasa]

amazing  thank you! 

if i may, just another querstion, do you prefer to train a striker to play in the mac or just play in front like a f9 or dl or cf?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

3 hours ago, vrbrasa said:

amazing  thank you! 

if i may, just another querstion, do you prefer to train a striker to play in the mac or just play in front like a f9 or dl or cf?

I'll typically start with ironing out any weaknesses and then try to get them a second option, so most commonly either playing wide or as a shadow striker. If I'm playing someone to play as a centre forward then Complete Forward is my preference.

[vrbrasa]

and what about the cwb? i remember you didnt like because they roam, you probably have a new opinion, how you see now? 

[Razor940]

3 horas atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

I'll typically start with ironing out any weaknesses and then try to get them a second option, so most commonly either playing wide or as a shadow striker. If I'm playing someone to play as a centre forward then Complete Forward is my preference.

How do you press with a AMC? I find crazy hard to do high press with an AMC.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

11 hours ago, Razor940 said:

How do you press with a AMC? I find crazy hard to do high press with an AMC.

I think there are two potential pitfalls:

1. The balance of the overall system. I like to have either:
   • Wide players as well in order to press effectively, eg. 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-1-2, 3-3-1-3
   • Or, 2 hard working attackers in a 4-4-2 diamond.
2. The player himself.
   • Many AMs are simply not suited to pressing. Two that spring to mind are Neymar and Ozil; both wonderful players but you're unlikely to get them to press. In that case, I'd set the team to press around them and leave them open for a counter-attack.

[Razor940]

56 minutos atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

I think there are two potential pitfalls:

1. The balance of the overall system. I like to have either:
   • Wide players as well in order to press effectively, eg. 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-1-2, 3-3-1-3
   • Or, 2 hard working attackers in a 4-4-2 diamond.
2. The player himself.
   • Many AMs are simply not suited to pressing. Two that spring to mind are Neymar and Ozil; both wonderful players but you're unlikely to get them to press. In that case, I'd set the team to press around them and leave them open for a counter-attack.

Can you delve more into this? I think I know some things, but in FM i just dont see it. Usually I should want my team to press with curved runs to isolate the opposition, others to block passing lanes and my defense to win second balls. The thing is I dont see my front players pressing any other way than running straight to the ball and then get bamboozled by a pass to the wingback or to the midfield. And I just do what anyone does - split block to the front trio since it became universal truth that pressing intensity sucks.

So Im left with this doubt that maybe I'm not instructing wisely or my players might not fit a high press, even tho they all have good bravery, wr, and teamwork is 10+. Also, I feel that i don't have much possession because of this, not that I want possession for the sake of, but I hardly get more than 500 passes a game, something that for me is more indicative of dominance. Or maybe it's just fm20 that in every league 19 out of 20 teams have more than 85% completion.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Any IT experts following this thread by any chance?

I've suddenly started getting this message every time I try to open FM2018.

Started happening this afternoon, when the game totally crashed mid-match and has been doing this since.

I've tried following this and get some progress. Once I actually managed to get into the game but still very glitchy and eventually died again.

[blackdevil]

Have you tried restarting your machine?  With a restart it may close any process/files that could be open and effecting it.

And of course there's the verifying of game files to try too or a re-install.

Edited May 10, 2020 by blackdevil

[Garrlor]

As you are using a MAC I can suggest Fire and a hammer. Then buy a laptop like a sane person ;).

[axehan1]

8 hours ago, Garrlor said:

As you are using a MAC I can suggest Fire and a hammer. Then buy a laptop like a sane person ;).

Wow, very helpful.

Hope you get it sorted O-zil.I'm still going strong with my Benfica save.

[fmFutbolManager]

I had this issue once. I 'moved' the Football Manager folder to a new location and started the game again and it worked. Something in the folder corrupted. The game builds the folders again when you load it so you can copy your preferences etc. one by one if you need them back.