Coaches

[GREYFOX]

Hello.

I was wondering as to how many coaches you have in your save and how they are assigned.  I usually have two first team and u18 coaches assigned to each training category (ball control, defending, shooting, etc).  Three to five fitness coaches and three to four goalkeeping coaches.  They are specialised in just one category so their focus will be down one path, but then I would go over the advised limited set by the club.  On the flip side, I can do fewer coaches who specialise in multiple categories.

Which is better? Multiple coaches specialising in one category or fewer coaches with multiple specialities?

[FrazT]

The answer to this will depend on how many you are allowed and your budget.  Adding multiple coaches to a category would be good as long as the overall effectiveness goes up.  I usually go by the star rating but never have more than 2 per category and often just have one very good coach per category.

[Snorks]

I don;t know if it still holds true or not, but the effectiveness of the training itself was governed by the lead coach - his star rating. So a 4* Defending coach meant your players get 4* defensive training regardless of how many other coaches were assigned.

Assigning a 2nd coach simply reduces the coaches workload, making the training/lead coach more effective at what he does. So a defending coach at 4* on his own means your player will get 4* coaching from an overworked coach. Add a 1 or 2 * coach as well, the lead guy will be much more effective.

I always aim to get  ONE highly rated coach for each category, then look at cheaper, lower rated coaches to reduce workload. (I usually look at younger/newer coaches for the 2nd level as they can potentially develop). I am not too fussed over a spevialism in he 2nd level coaches as it has such a negligent impact on the training itself.

Depending on staff levels allowed and budget, I sometimes work these 'assistant coaches' to the bone, spreading them across three or four categories, simply to reduce the lead coach workloads.

You can, and I have, used the Ass Man, U23s manager/asst as the 2nd level coach because I am selecting them on slightly different criteria, and often there are better coaches in each category available, even put myself across a number of categories if the star-rating of the coaching team means I'm not one of the 'specialists'.

Don;t be afraid to use staff already at the club to ease the coach workload.

[Vicz]

12 hours ago, Snorks said:

I don;t know if it still holds true or not, but the effectiveness of the training itself was governed by the lead coach - his star rating. So a 4* Defending coach meant your players get 4* defensive training regardless of how many other coaches were assigned.

Assigning a 2nd coach simply reduces the coaches workload, making the training/lead coach more effective at what he does. So a defending coach at 4* on his own means your player will get 4* coaching from an overworked coach. Add a 1 or 2 * coach as well, the lead guy will be much more effective.

I always aim to get  ONE highly rated coach for each category, then look at cheaper, lower rated coaches to reduce workload. (I usually look at younger/newer coaches for the 2nd level as they can potentially develop). I am not too fussed over a spevialism in he 2nd level coaches as it has such a negligent impact on the training itself.

Depending on staff levels allowed and budget, I sometimes work these 'assistant coaches' to the bone, spreading them across three or four categories, simply to reduce the lead coach workloads.

You can, and I have, used the Ass Man, U23s manager/asst as the 2nd level coach because I am selecting them on slightly different criteria, and often there are better coaches in each category available, even put myself across a number of categories if the star-rating of the coaching team means I'm not one of the 'specialists'.

Don;t be afraid to use staff already at the club to ease the coach workload.

This is interesting because this is also what I do but in reality it is of course a bit of a bodge. I have 1 highly rated coach per area and then have a lesser coach cover the areas to reduce workload. FM shows this to have no detrimental affect on coaching quality but in real life its hard to believe that would be the case. It's also questionable if FM actually works like that. It could be there is some hidden complexity that does take into account the introduction of a lesser coach and it's just not being shown. Maybe a dev/mod can shed some light.... 

[Thebaker]

seems like a lot of fitness and GK coaches, i have just 2 of each.  I do the same as Snorks with 1 good coach in each category and then a few others to ease the workload, usually cheap coaches and often based on what knowledge they can bring to the club.

[herne79]

21 minutes ago, Vicz said:

This is interesting because this is also what I do but in reality it is of course a bit of a bodge. I have 1 highly rated coach per area and then have a lesser coach cover the areas to reduce workload. FM shows this to have no detrimental affect on coaching quality but in real life its hard to believe that would be the case. It's also questionable if FM actually works like that. It could be there is some hidden complexity that does take into account the introduction of a lesser coach and it's just not being shown. Maybe a dev/mod can shed some light.... 

Nope, no hidden complexity.

As others are saying, employing coaches is simple - have one good coach* cover each area and employ one naff one to manage the workloads.  It is a bodge but that really is all there is to it.  Of course your Board must let you employ a sufficient number of coaches* to do this, so lower league managers can't bodge it like this.

* Coaches in this context means Coaches, squad Managers and Assistant Managers, and HoYD.  They all count towards coaches and their workloads, so if you're struggling to cover each area with a coach due to Board restrictions, use managers, their assistants and your HoYD to help.  Workloads can also be managed by making sure your squads are not overly bloated with large numbers of players.

[SD]

My approach is to employ U23 coaches as backup coaches for the 1st team and as primary coaches for the U18. U23 coaches can work with all three squads.

[michaeltmurrayuk]

Also depending on the country you are in U23 coaches can coach both your senior and youth players which can help out if you cannot have enough coaches to fill out the senior/youth sides, whilst Fitness and Goalkeeper coaches will train all sides as well which reduces the need for you to sign them for your youth side if you don't have enough space. (though in that case you'd want your senior guys to have good youth ratings).

Also if you are in the lower leagues you can give staff members secondary jobs which shouldn't count towards the limits, whilst your Manager also takes part in training so you are at least a free option to reduce the workload across the board even if you aren't very good (and if you want to boost your chances of being a good coach throw what points you can into Determination, LoD and Man Management at the start as they tend to be harder for you to improve).

And as others have said you generally want your best rated coach for that area working in just that one area to get the highest star rating and then add more of any rating to decrease the workload - I think it's been explained in the past that the idea is your main guy runs the training and the others just act as assistants to ensure his instructions get passed on and followed.

[GREYFOX]

4 hours ago, Thebaker said:

seems like a lot of fitness and GK coaches, i have just 2 of each.  I do the same as Snorks with 1 good coach in each category and then a few others to ease the workload, usually cheap coaches and often based on what knowledge they can bring to the club.

I use a lot as both the first team and u18 are trained so having just 2 on each will not suffice.

Just now, SD said:

My approach is to employ U23 coaches as backup coaches for the 1st team and as primary coaches for the U18. U23 coaches can work with all three squads.

I don't have any u23 coaches as I use u23 as a dumping ground for unwanted players.

I read a while back that other users would employ a high rating coach initially to fill the slot and backup the lead coach with a low rating coach to get to five stars but at the time, I thought nothing of it and just carried on with my own play style.  Many moons later and the response is still the same.

Are star ratings even realistic in FM and implemented in real life? I don't think it is.  It is not realistic to have two 4 star coaches, one 4 star is the lead and the other only fills up one star where logically and practically the backup can do what the lead coach does.  This means the other three stars for the backup are ignored by the game.  This is unrealistic in my view and should be looked at.

[SD]

1 minute ago, GREYFOX said:

I use a lot as both the first team and u18 are trained so having just 2 on each will not suffice.

I don't have any u23 coaches as I use u23 as a dumping ground for unwanted players.

I read a while back that other users would employ a high rating coach initially to fill the slot and backup the lead coach with a low rating coach to get to five stars but at the time, I thought nothing of it and just carried on with my own play style.  Many moons later and the response is still the same.

Are star ratings even realistic in FM and implemented in real life? I don't think it is.  It is not realistic to have two 4 star coaches, one 4 star is the lead and the other only fills up one star where logically and practically the backup can do what the lead coach does.  This means the other three stars for the backup are ignored by the game.  This is unrealistic in my view and should be looked at.

I also hate the way coaching assignments work but for now this is the optimal way to handle them. At least by using my backup coaches as primary coaches for the U18s, they need to have a decent rating and high working with youngsters.

Hopefully staff will get some love in FM20, such as adding more interaction or including them in the team dynamics system.

[GREYFOX]

Maybe FM 19 will be tweaked instead of FM 20? If not then I can wait for FM 20.  Does anyone here have more than two fitness and goalkeeping coaches? It make no sense to me to have just two on each when there are many players to train and develop.  Just two can't manage that much workload.

[SD]

3 hours ago, GREYFOX said:

Maybe FM 19 will be tweaked instead of FM 20?

Maybe some slight tweaks here and there to streamline it with the new team and individual training, but all major FM19 changes were announced already so it were anything extensive we'd have found out by now.

3 hours ago, GREYFOX said:

Does anyone here have more than two fitness and goalkeeping coaches?

Both fitness and GK coaches count towards your coach limit, you can hire as many you wish as long as you stay within the squad limit. Most top Premiership teams start with an 8 coach limit, but the board usually agrees to increase it to 10 a few months into first season.

[Snorks]

training has some big changes in fm19 but not sure about coaches and workloads.

 

as for Fitness/ GK coaches, fitness especially - one in each category with high rating, and one across both to ease workload works for me - at liverpool and ac Milan in the current save.

Same for GK, if you can have three - one for each specialty, and one or two across them all to ease workload.

@GREYFOX

I am not sure about having u18s training under the senior team as well - I try and keep them separate. the u23s will share training facilities with first team but u18s have their own team of coaches don't they?

 

[Just-Wool]

From my experiences of coaching rugby, albeit not a pro level how it works in game is abstractly how it works IRL. Your lead coach (highest rated) will set up the drills, make the plan and do all the necessary explanations while the assistants will be there to just monitor and offer input while the drills are happening, because the lead won't be able to see everyone all the time.

The lead will obviously be going through all the groups and tweaking things while they train, but will rely on the assistants to also do this. Any star rating will be adequate for the assistant as all you need to do that is a basic knowledge of coaching, which all of them would have, even at half a star level.

I like to think the extra stars are their effectiveness at planning and executing a fun training regime to improve a group of players, rather than telling them how wrong they are at doing a drill. 

[GREYFOX]

11 hours ago, SD said:

Maybe some slight tweaks here and there to streamline it with the new team and individual training, but all major FM19 changes were announced already so it were anything extensive we'd have found out by now.

Both fitness and GK coaches count towards your coach limit, you can hire as many you wish as long as you stay within the squad limit. Most top Premiership teams start with an 8 coach limit, but the board usually agrees to increase it to 10 a few months into first season.

That is fine.  I can wait until FM20.  I am aware of fitness and GK counting towards limit of staff.

3 hours ago, Snorks said:

training has some big changes in fm19 but not sure about coaches and workloads.

 

as for Fitness/ GK coaches, fitness especially - one in each category with high rating, and one across both to ease workload works for me - at liverpool and ac Milan in the current save.

Same for GK, if you can have three - one for each specialty, and one or two across them all to ease workload.

@GREYFOX

I am not sure about having u18s training under the senior team as well - I try and keep them separate. the u23s will share training facilities with first team but u18s have their own team of coaches don't they?

 

I don't have the u18 train with the first team.  I was just mentioning that both fitness and GK coaches train both teams, first team and u18.

23 minutes ago, monkeywool said:

From my experiences of coaching rugby, albeit not a pro level how it works in game is abstractly how it works IRL. Your lead coach (highest rated) will set up the drills, make the plan and do all the necessary explanations while the assistants will be there to just monitor and offer input while the drills are happening, because the lead won't be able to see everyone all the time.

The lead will obviously be going through all the groups and tweaking things while they train, but will rely on the assistants to also do this. Any star rating will be adequate for the assistant as all you need to do that is a basic knowledge of coaching, which all of them would have, even at half a star level.

I like to think the extra stars are their effectiveness at planning and executing a fun training regime to improve a group of players, rather than telling them how wrong they are at doing a drill. 

Doesn't coaching in Rugby differ to coaching in Football seeing they are almost completely different sports?

[Just-Wool]

3 minutes ago, GREYFOX said:

That is fine.  I can wait until FM20.  I am aware of fitness and GK counting towards limit of staff.

I don't have the u18 train with the first team.  I was just mentioning that both fitness and GK coaches train both teams, first team and u18.

Doesn't coaching in Rugby differ to coaching in Football seeing they are almost completely different sports?

The drills are different as we're teaching different skills, however the overall setup probably won't be too different though as team sports have all the same basic goals. You wanna get the group to increase their skills and knowledge of their own roles while increasing team cohesion and tactical awareness. You'll split your training into subsets for specialisations during some sessions and then bring the team together in others. Planning a coaching session for rugby is going to be the same process as football.

If you're a rugby coach or a football coach - theoretically if you know enough about the other sport you can coach that too. This is why Clive Woodward was going into football and was at Southampton for a while. Before he took over as one of the heads in British Cycling, overseeing training and practice there even though he's a legendary rugby coach. 

[phnompenhandy]

On 12/10/2018 at 05:24, GREYFOX said:

I was wondering as to how many coaches you have in your save and how they are assigned

Me? None. There's just me and Fat Dave my assman who does Fitness. I do the rest. I have advertised for a coach but no one is replying. Doesn't really matter as we only train a couple of hours a week and most of my squad of 20 sit the sessions out if we have a midweek match and I'm off to scout the next opposition as I have no scout - or physio for that matter (Dave's handy with the magic sponge).

[GREYFOX]

I know that FM does not visually recognise more than two coaches in one category, but does FM recognise more than two coaches internally? My guess it does not.

4 hours ago, monkeywool said:

The drills are different as we're teaching different skills, however the overall setup probably won't be too different though as team sports have all the same basic goals. You wanna get the group to increase their skills and knowledge of their own roles while increasing team cohesion and tactical awareness. You'll split your training into subsets for specialisations during some sessions and then bring the team together in others. Planning a coaching session for rugby is going to be the same process as football.

If you're a rugby coach or a football coach - theoretically if you know enough about the other sport you can coach that too. This is why Clive Woodward was going into football and was at Southampton for a while. Before he took over as one of the heads in British Cycling, overseeing training and practice there even though he's a legendary rugby coach. 

From the way you have explained it, both Rugby and Football training looks and operates similar.  I have heard of that name.  Is he a goalkeeping coach?

[michaeltmurrayuk]

1 hour ago, GREYFOX said:

I know that FM does not visually recognise more than two coaches in one category, but does FM recognise more than two coaches internally? My guess it does not.

From the way you have explained it, both Rugby and Football training looks and operates similar.  I have heard of that name.  Is he a goalkeeping coach?

FM does recognise more than two coaches in an area (both visually and internally), depending on the area and squad size you will sometimes need three or four coaches to bring the workload down.

[RodentofDoom]

In a perfect world you want 1 5 star coach for each coaching area with a Light or Medium workload.

You & your Assistant can be used to support a category that has a Heavy workload

 

However most of my experience in the game is between tiers 3&6 where budgets and board restrictions don't allow for that

If I'm only allowed 2 coaches 

I get 1 Fitness & 1 goalkeeping coach, all other coaching areas get covered by myself and the assistant

I then hire better coaches for the main sections as the board increases the staff limits over time