League 2 Uk Tactics

[Internomad]

Hi guys, once again I will be battling to get my team, Grimsby Town promoted out of League 2, something I have never been able to do in the Football Manager series.

My question is this, is it almost impossible to get a League 2 team promoted using fancy tactics like 4-3-2-1, 4-2-2-2 or 5-3-2 etc.?  Or is the best option 4-4-2 with a direct style of play?  Bear in mind that Grimsby do not have a great budget, and buying the kind of players that can fit into the fancy tactics is out of the question.  Thanks in advance for any advice given.  UTM!

[Zemahh]

26 minutes ago, Internomad said:

My question is this, is it almost impossible to get a League 2 team promoted using fancy tactics like 4-3-2-1, 4-2-2-2 or 5-3-2 etc.?

If you understand the tactic and have players that can pull it off, why not? Definitely not impossible.

@Rashidi had a lot of success with all kinds of "fancy tactics" in his Kingstonian Diaries, taking them straight to the Premier League.

That said, I personally like to keep it simple in the lower leagues. Aerially strong defenders, defensively solid central midfielders, pacey wingers and two tall strikers getting on the end of crosses.

[Internomad]

Thanks very much for your reply.  The thing is, I don't think Grimsby have the players to pull off those kind of tactics, and finding some that have, and that I can afford will be very hard.

BTW, I like your ideas of the kind of players you use, I will see if I can build a team around those kind of tactics.

[toffee71]

I tend to go pretty much a 433 direct kind of tactic for anything outside top 2 divs, not pretty but generally effective and at the lower leagues you will have the players for it, of course not the best. The pretty tactics will work but you need to persevere for maybe full season using transfer/loan market to get the right players for the roles you want then 2nd season for me at least if I go the pretty route it will work well, but for 1st season promotion I would use 433 direct, or if short of strikes a flat 442 still direct.

[Internomad]

2 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

I tend to go pretty much a 433 direct kind of tactic for anything outside top 2 divs, not pretty but generally effective and at the lower leagues you will have the players for it, of course not the best. The pretty tactics will work but you need to persevere for maybe full season using transfer/loan market to get the right players for the roles you want then 2nd season for me at least if I go the pretty route it will work well, but for 1st season promotion I would use 433 direct, or if short of strikes a flat 442 still direct.

Thank you for your advice.

We do have a fair few strikers at Grimsby, though not many of them are very tall!

[toffee71]

Just now, Internomad said:

Thank you for your advice.

We do have a fair few strikers at Grimsby, though not many of them are very tall!

Only really need 1 tall striker though 2 is good, in the 3 front 1dlf+1tm+1df, in the 2 front is where i would prefer 2 tall forwards, though 1 is ok, depending on what 2nd striker can do

[Internomad]

8 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

Only really need 1 tall striker though 2 is good, in the 3 front 1dlf+1tm+1df, in the 2 front is where i would prefer 2 tall forwards, though 1 is ok, depending on what 2nd striker can do

Once again, thank you.  :-)

 

[toffee71]

No problem man, one other little note if TM not scoring change to poacher if reasonable finishing stat

[Internomad]

Ok will do.

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, Internomad said:

Hi guys, once again I will be battling to get my team, Grimsby Town promoted out of League 2, something I have never been able to do in the Football Manager series.

My question is this, is it almost impossible to get a League 2 team promoted using fancy tactics like 4-3-2-1, 4-2-2-2 or 5-3-2 etc.?  Or is the best option 4-4-2 with a direct style of play?  Bear in mind that Grimsby do not have a great budget, and buying the kind of players that can fit into the fancy tactics is out of the question.  Thanks in advance for any advice given.  UTM!

I think 5-3-2 should work well with a lower league team. But the tactic is not just about formation. You need to set up everything (mentality, shape, roles, duties, TIs and PIs) in the right way that suits your players. And even then, you need to be prepared to carefully watch every match you play and make further adjustments to your tactic. And yes, in LLM - the simpler your tactic is, the better 

P.S: for any further advice, we would need to know more about your players (not only strikers but also defenders and midfielders).

[Internomad]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think 5-3-2 should work well with a lower league team. But the tactic is not just about formation. You need to set up everything (mentality, shape, roles, duties, TIs and PIs) in the right way that suits your players. And even then, you need to be prepared to carefully watch every match you play and make further adjustments to your tactic. And yes, in LLM - the simpler your tactic is, the better 

P.S: for any further advice, we would need to know more about your players (not only strikers but also defenders and midfielders).

Hi, and thanks for posting.  I lack strikers with height, only having one who is 6 foot or over.  In the midfield I have some good central mids and LM's, but on the right side I have mainly  AMR.  I have good central defenders with decent back-up, and fullbacks would be fine too, except for the fact that I have 3 out injured.

BTW, as far as attribute numbers go, for League 2, what is the accepted good numbers.  I saw a post on the forum, but it was from 2010, and it said that 8's were acceptable, but we should have 10-12.s for critical attributes.  What's you guys thinking on this?

[Snorks]

'Buying the kind of players to fit a fancy tactic' really is possible in any division as it's a comparison with the other teams in the league, not an overall quality thing. So yes, you can be successful at any level, with any formation if you have the right players for it - and by that, I mean better than average for the division you are playing in.

Without seeing your squad in detail, it's impossible to advise, but firstly, look at your two or three best players - which position, role and duty will get the best out of them? There's the core of the tactic, everything else can be built around that to bring the best attributes of those players. Look at the comparisons as well, if your midfield is better than average for passing, then use that in your tactic. Your defenders lower than average in JR and Heading, then look to defend by negating crosses - force opposition inside as much as possible. 

The comparison page is the best place to go for the 'good numbers' as they are dynamic (but not by much) and 'Good' for some attributes can be quite low. I review these just before each season, and occasionally mid-season too - also helps guide on the type pf players you should for - and tweak tactic and training accordingly.

At the end of the day, if your defender stats are average, midfield stats are average and attacking stats are average, chances are you will finish mid-table or thereabouts with a tactic that suits your players. What can make the difference is that player with one or more higher attributes that you can use to your advantage, as long as you use it to your advantage. whether it be a defender with high tackling or positioning, a midfielder with awesome vision/passing ability or a striker with pace.

 

[Experienced Defender]

37 minutes ago, Snorks said:

Look at the comparisons as well, if your midfield is better than average for passing, then use that in your tactic. Your defenders lower than average in JR and Heading, then look to defend by negating crosses - force opposition inside as much as possible. 

The comparison page is the best place to go for the 'good numbers' as they are dynamic (but not by much) and 'Good' for some attributes can be quite low. I review these just before each season, and occasionally mid-season too - also helps guide on the type pf players you should for - and tweak tactic and training accordingly.

This is the best advice to begin with 

I would just like to add something about individual training. I would recommend you to set all your goalkeepers to train the Sweeper-keeper role, all your central defenders as ball playing defender, your fullbacks and wing-backs as complete wing-back (their positional training should depend on whether you're gonna use 4 or 3 at back), your defensive midfielders and more defensive central midfielders as segundo volante, more creative/offensive central midfielders as roaming playmaker, wide forwards (AMR/L) as inside forward and strikers as complete striker. This does not mean that you will necessarily use players in these respective roles. The reason for this type of individual training is that these roles tend to improve the greatest number of important attributes for each position. Of course, you cannot expect players to improve and develop as quickly as those in higher leagues because your training facilities and coaches are probably of lower quality, but certain improvement should be seen over time.

[Snorks]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

This is the best advice to begin with 

I would just like to add something about individual training. I would recommend you to set all your goalkeepers to train the Sweeper-keeper role, all your central defenders as ball playing defender, your fullbacks and wing-backs as complete wing-back (their positional training should depend on whether you're gonna use 4 or 3 at back), your defensive midfielders and more defensive central midfielders as segundo volante, more creative/offensive central midfielders as roaming playmaker, wide forwards (AMR/L) as inside forward and strikers as complete striker. This does not mean that you will necessarily use players in these respective roles. The reason for this type of individual training is that these roles tend to improve the greatest number of important attributes for each position. Of course, you cannot expect players to improve and develop as quickly as those in higher leagues because your training facilities and coaches are probably of lower quality, but certain improvement should be seen over time.

and that is very good advice as well if you want general improvements across the board. This is where the training gets interesting for me, well, in FM18 anyways, not yet had chance to play in FM19.

 

For me, from the Comparisons information, I can set my team training to work on the attributes that the overall squad need working on. You can then, and I often do, follow @Experienced Defender 's advice as a starting point for individual training. However if, for example, team training is set to Defending, I might want wingers/attackers/strikers to work on more offensive attributes so will set their training position to cover those attributes, with a focus on a particular one if needed.

Rarely do I ever train a Player Trait, I feel it takes too much time away from the other activities and prefer to teach them earlier through tutoring.

But, back to subject and the OP, short strikers isn't a problem necessarily, if they have good Jumping Reach and Headers they can still do the job in the air.

[Internomad]

17 hours ago, Snorks said:

'Buying the kind of players to fit a fancy tactic' really is possible in any division as it's a comparison with the other teams in the league, not an overall quality thing. So yes, you can be successful at any level, with any formation if you have the right players for it - and by that, I mean better than average for the division you are playing in.

Without seeing your squad in detail, it's impossible to advise, but firstly, look at your two or three best players - which position, role and duty will get the best out of them? There's the core of the tactic, everything else can be built around that to bring the best attributes of those players. Look at the comparisons as well, if your midfield is better than average for passing, then use that in your tactic. Your defenders lower than average in JR and Heading, then look to defend by negating crosses - force opposition inside as much as possible. 

The comparison page is the best place to go for the 'good numbers' as they are dynamic (but not by much) and 'Good' for some attributes can be quite low. I review these just before each season, and occasionally mid-season too - also helps guide on the type pf players you should for - and tweak tactic and training accordingly.

At the end of the day, if your defender stats are average, midfield stats are average and attacking stats are average, chances are you will finish mid-table or thereabouts with a tactic that suits your players. What can make the difference is that player with one or more higher attributes that you can use to your advantage, as long as you use it to your advantage. whether it be a defender with high tackling or positioning, a midfielder with awesome vision/passing ability or a striker with pace.

 

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post with such helpful advice.

[Internomad]

I have played 5 pre-season matches so far, won all of them but keep getting this comment:- "unable to regain possession in the opponents half".  What do I need to do to counter that?

[toffee71]

2 hours ago, Internomad said:

I have played 5 pre-season matches so far, won all of them but keep getting this comment:- "unable to regain possession in the opponents half".  What do I need to do to counter that?

You will always have a negative even if you win big (or I do at least) If you watch either full match or comprehensive highlights you will be able to say how bad the issue is.

[Snorks]

On 20/10/2018 at 02:47, Internomad said:

I have played 5 pre-season matches so far, won all of them but keep getting this comment:- "unable to regain possession in the opponents half".  What do I need to do to counter that?

First thing to do is to decide whether you WANT to regain possession there or whether you are happy to regroup and THEN try and win it back.

As has been said, you will always be given a 'negative' along with the positives in a report - the real question is how bad was it  really? Watching the game on full, or at least Comprehensive will help you see if it s a serious problem that needs addressing or not.

If so, I would:

a) Make sure I have bodies  in that area of the pitch (I am currently using a 4231 so usually  I do)

b) Tell those bodies to close down much more/get stuck in (two ways of doing this)

c) Push the D-Line up a bit higher.

 

Any one of the above, will have an affect on other parts of your tactic and may not be worth it - depending on your tactic and players you have.

To Close Down More - I have a Klopp-esque 4-2-3-1 tactic at the moment, TI set to Close Down Much More & Get Stuck In, High Tempo as well. My back four though, have DCs told to Close Down Much Less and FBs told Close Down Less - which leaves me a bit more structured at the back if opposition gets through the press. With 6 players then pressing hard up the pitch, I usually win the ball back high up the field.

 

Most of the time though, as long as I am getting the results and seeing what I like on the pitch, I will tend to ignore the comments from game-made analysts.

[Internomad]

Thank you Snorks, I have switched to a 3-5-2 and am ignoring the Ass Man's comments, and seem to be doing ok so far!

[Quacky]

On 18/10/2018 at 20:55, Snorks said:

'Buying the kind of players to fit a fancy tactic' really is possible in any division

It depends on the roles you need them to do I think. For example at a lower level no one you get is really going to be a good complete forward because it needs too many attributes to be decent at this role. Anyone rounded in all of these things at that level would be just a bit rubbish at everything and so not worth using over a pure advanced forward or target man.

 

Same thing goes for all the more luxury roles in the game, complete wing back, libero, roaming playmaker, trequartista, raumdeuter etc... You can't expect them to play quite such complete football in lower leagues.